1873 Winchester progress and range update

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I wake up every morning confused enough as it is. I guess the question is, when was, or when did the .38 Long Colt family become, or was renamed the .38SPL. I saw a video on that somewhat lately, but I can't even remember why I just sat down at the computer again, when I was on my way outside. !!!! DANG!

Then dont get into why 38WCF/38-40 isnt called 40WCF/40-40. Its a 40 cal bullet with 40 grains of Holy Black behind it. WHAT DOES 38 HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING!?!?
 
Actually, .38Spl. did exist in the late 1800’s, the very late 1800’s, it was released in 1898.

It was originally a black powder round.

I did actually know that about .38 Special. It still a good black powder cartridge. I did not phrase that statement well.

Colt offered the SAA in .38 Special but I don’t think that happened before 1900 and I’m pretty sure there were no lever action or pump action rifles in .38 Special in that era. They are very popular now.
 
Outstanding rifle, thread, and success! Rifle looks good now, looking forward to further progress reports! I love Leverguns, but never been around a 73 or 44-40. I missed out!
 
I once had a S&W revolver I don't remember for sure what is was marked but .38 Special would shoot in it but the chamber was larger in diameter. I found out it was chamber for an older cartridge, Maybe 38 S&W. or .38 Colt. I traded it off.
 
I once had a S&W revolver I don't remember for sure what is was marked but .38 Special would shoot in it but the chamber was larger in diameter. I found out it was chamber for an older cartridge, Maybe 38 S&W. or .38 Colt. I traded it off.

Possibly a British S&W Victory Model -- their .380 Revolver cartridge has the same, slightly shorter and fatter dimensions as .38 S&W. My shooting buddy Bob owns one.

The US Victory Models were made in .38 S&W Special and outwardly looked the same except for markings.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/content/v-is-for-victory-the-smith-wesson-victory-model-revolver/
 
Lots of British Service Revolvers (BSR) were reamed out for .38 Special, even though the brass would bulge into the larger diameter of the original shorter .38 S&W chamber. That helped them sell into the US army surplus market. Many were sawn off to catch the eye of private eye book and movie fans, losing the front latch point.

Note: The Victory Model is a Military and Police .38 produced on US and British wartime contracts. All that means is that the serial number has a "V" prefix so they didn't run serial numbers into the millions. Gun No V6 is no different from gun No 999999. (Guns No 1000000 and V1-V5 were polished up to commercial standard as presentation pieces for VIPs.)
I don't know if Smith and Wesson CALLED them "Victory Models" or if that is purely a collectors' name, kind of like "Pre Model 10" for the guns as made 1947-1957.)
 
Problem was, I couldn't find any .32-20. None. Zilch. There is literally no available .32-20 to be had online that I could find.

My FIL died and in his belongings, he had an almost full box (39) of 100 gr. RN .32-20 Winchester cartridges. Back in the '70s I qualified for the Sheriff's Dept. With a borrowed Colt .32-20 with a 6" barrel. It's been one of favorites since but the lender wouldn't sell his revolver for love nor money.

If you are interested in these cartridges, PM me and I'm sure we can work out a very reasonable solution to your dilemma.

SHOOT THAT SUCKER!
 
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I don't know if Smith and Wesson CALLED them "Victory Models" or if that is purely a collectors' name, kind of like "Pre Model 10" for the guns as made 1947-1957.)

I believe the Victory designation was (or became) official during the war, but I don't know precisely when. Probably not until the rougher Parkerized finish was introduced. Since this finish was inferior to S&W commercial standards as an aid to production, the Victory designation was in the company's interest.

It was similar to Webley marking their military contract MkIV revolvers "War Finish" to alert users that they were below the factory's usual standard of finish. BTW, I've got a relatively cherry example of one of those in my collection:

Webley MkIV.jpg
WebleyWarFinish.jpg
 
Update:
Took a sponge and some dawn dishsoap to the wood. A few hours and another pile of crusty brown towels later, I had the wood exposed.
The good news was, there was some decent figuring under the black tar grime.
The bad news was, there were a few spots under the grime that had faded and lost the original oil finish. I got the wood as clean as I could get it without resorting to chemicals that would dry the wood further or abrasives that would take away what could never be replaced, and gave it a few light coats of BLO mixed with mineral spirits. That restored the color and will protect the wood. I might take some steel wool and more BLO to it and give it as much of a shine as I can, make that figuring come back to life, I dunno, still debating how much of the originality i'm willing to let go. Some people would probably be aghast that I knocked the grime off of it. Yea I know it took a hundred years of handling to lay down that much hand grease, but it didn't leave the factory in 1894 covered in 130 years of greasy handprints and gun oil.

From this:
rifle and backstop right side.jpg

To this:

clean wood right side.jpg

refreshed stock left 2.jpg

refreshed stock right.jpg

forend right.jpg
 
Yeah, no aghast here. Clean it as much as you can, then start rubbing it down with oil. What is "BLO"?
 
Looking great, I would clean it all I could! I got early 60's Mod 94 this summer. Cleaned it good, and it showed 3-4 spots down to wood. I just dabbed Tru-Oil on then. If the wood showed really light I would've dabbed a little stain first.
You got a good rifle there!
 
You know, that old ‘73 looks just about perfect to my eye as it is ( through your photos of course). It has the look of decades of honest use without looking like its been kitchen-table refinished. The original Winchester reddish stock finish shows clearly now, that is really cool.

You did a great job of wiping away the years of neglect without taking away the character of the rifle.

A big thumbs up to you :thumbup:.

Stay safe.
 
Yeah, no aghast here. Clean it as much as you can, then start rubbing it down with oil. What is "BLO"?
As mentioned, BLO is boiled linseed oil. Which is actually a flax oil. Boiled is a version that has been altered to dry faster. Raw linseed oil takes days to dry. BLO takes a number of hours. Raw linseed is great for raw steel surfaces, like shovels, axe heads, and bench tops: it keeps the rust away. Coated the steel plate on my bench top 2 years ago and its still new looking.

Linseed oil is used in oil based paints, varnishes, polyurethanes, and stain.
 
That's funny, "BLO" just didn't translate in my mind for some reason. I've never really liked it, does not seem to really keep moisture out of wood, and kind of has a gummy feel. Never seemed to have "staying" power and seems, to me, to rub off easily if the rifle is getting carried in the rain. I've never tried cutting it with spirits or anything else, that may make a big difference.

I've never tried raw linseed on metal, sounds good for the axes and things I carry in the Power Wagon.

On gunstocks I like to rub them down, repeatedly over weeks with something like a walnut oil, or mink oil, maybe olive oil, and let that dry and soak in, and then go to a tung oil or Danish oil/stain, and do many applications of that. Eventually when I think that has "taken", I might dilute some Minwax "Tung oil Finish", which has no tung oil in it but is a poly-product, and rub in a very light coating of that. Not "put it on", but rub it in. Also have a bottle that is a mix of a very small amount of "Tru-Oil", which is not true at all and is another poly-product, and a mix of other oils and stains of which I don't remember, but same thing, rub that in, especially a couple of weeks before a hunt, and the gun will keep the hand-rubbed oil finish look, but be quite water proof.

Having said all that, there is an interesting formula we use on wood Inuit/Greenland kayak paddles, I forget but it uses Pine tar and turpentine, and something else. I wonder how it would work on a gunstock. ? It is certainly tough and waterproof on the paddles.
 
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That's funny, "BLO" just didn't translate in my mind for some reason. I've never really liked it, does not seem to really keep moisture out of wood, and kind of has a gummy feel. Never seemed to have "staying" power and seems, to me, to rub off easily if the rifle is getting carried in the rain. I've never tried cutting it with spirits or anything else, that may make a big difference.

I've never tried raw linseed on metal, sounds good for the axes and things I carry in the Power Wagon.

On gunstocks I like to rub them down, repeatedly over weeks with something like a walnut oil, or mink oil, maybe olive oil, and let that dry and soak in, and then go to a tung oil or Danish oil/stain, and do many applications of that. Eventually when I think that has "taken", I might dilute some Minwax "Tung oil Finish", which has no tung oil in it but is a poly-product, and rub in a very light coating of that. Not "put it on", but rub it in. Also have a bottle that is a mix of a very small amount of "Tru-Oil", which is not true at all and is another poly-product, and a mix of other oils and stains of which I don't remember, but same thing, rub that in, especially a couple of weeks before a hunt, and the gun will keep the hand-rubbed oil finish look, but be quite water proof.

Having said all that, there is an interesting formula we use on wood Inuit/Greenland kayak paddles, I forget but it uses Pine tar and turpentine, and something else. I wonder how it would work on a gunstock. ? It is certainly tough and waterproof on the paddles.
BLO and Turpentine mixed 50/50 then 70/30 works really well. The turpentine helps it penetrate and dry faster.

But as you mentioned, i too prefer Danish Oil or 100% Tung Oil. Followed by Old Masters Crystal Clear paste wax.

When i start making some stocks and gun cases, im going to use Old Masters' Master's Armor in flat on the more all-weather types. Its a super tough epoxy type finish with an optional hardener. And the flat is more of a dull rubbed finish. It lays down really nice and doesn't have a thick film appearance.
 
There's this old man I got acquainted with some time back, who said he only used pine tar. But I never was interested then. I just recently refinished a couple old stocks, I used only BLO. One was not walnut, although it looks good, it's way to light for me. The other was a good walnut, looks great, but still too light for me. What's a good mix using BLO, to really get that old time finish, not red, just a mid to dark walnut??
 
There's this old man I got acquainted with some time back, who said he only used pine tar. But I never was interested then. I just recently refinished a couple old stocks, I used only BLO. One was not walnut, although it looks good, it's way to light for me. The other was a good walnut, looks great, but still too light for me. What's a good mix using BLO, to really get that old time finish, not red, just a mid to dark walnut??

I like a dark stock finish, so I usually either stain it first, or use/put/mix some stain in whatever oil I'm using. I recently stripped and refinished my Rossi Lever gun, and that wood just would not take stain, or just barely. Obviously not walnut, but I don't know what it is. So it came out very light, but, it came out nice as far as a light colored finish goes. I used the Minwax "Tung Oil Finish" (not!) as the final coat on it. Anyhow, mix some stain in with your BLO.
 
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