Beginning reloader, have stupid question?

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.357 magnum automatic

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Well, not sure just how stupid it is, but, I've been wondering, looking at brass, availability, and price..........

Anyway, I daily carry a Coonan Classic 5" .357 magnum model 1911.

It can also fire .38 caliber by changing out the 22# recoil spring to 10#'s

So, here's my question........................................

Can a .38 brass, be loaded, so as to have the full magnum load? Because in my thoughts a semi-auto .357 mag, pistol should fire a heavy .38 which is of course a shorter bullet, but, alas, in a model 1911 it shouldn't matter right?

.38cal brass is half the cost of the longer .357 mag bass.....................
 
.357 magnum automatic said:
.357 mag, pistol should fire a heavy .38 which is of course a shorter bullet, but, alas, in a model 1911 it shouldn't matter right?
Click to expand...
No, a .38 is not a shorter bullet, it is a shorter cartridge because it has a shorter case - both the .357 Magnum and the .38 Special use the same "bullets."
But to answer your question, see kmw1954's response above (and below). :)
kmw1954 said:
When I was shooting and loading a 357 revolver I never fired 38Spl. brass in it, Messes up the cylinder and makes it hard to chamber 357 brass afterwards.
Click to expand...
"Bullet: The missile used in firearms systems. Technically, it becomes a projectile when in motion. Not to be substituted for the term "cartridge." See also ball."
(Speer Reloading Manual #14, Copyright 2007, pg. 1135)
 
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.357 magnum automatic said:
Can a .38 brass, be loaded, so as to have the full magnum load?
Click to expand...
Yes, but it's a bad idea, if they find their way into a .38 Spl revolver it could be very bad.

Will the Coonan feed .38 Spl cases (shorter rounds)? I have no idea.

Is .357 Mag brass available? Yes it is, so my advise is to buy some
 
You’d be better off sticking to .357 magnum brass if you’re trying to load for .357 magnum power.

Additionally, while I have no experience with .357 magnum in a semi-auto handgun, one thing that lever gun users sometimes contend with when running .38 specials in a .357 magnum gun is that OAL and bullet shape can be crucial to consistent feeding. I have to imagine that problem may only be exacerbated in a semi-automatic platform like that 1911. But I could be wrong.

With a gun like that, I think switching to .38 special would introduce too many additional variables that it would just drive me bonkers. By the time I was done messing with matching the right springs to the right loads, and tweaking OAL’s and messing with feeding issues, I expect I’d wish I had stuck with .357 magnum.
 
.357 magnum automatic said:
Well, not sure just how stupid it is, but, I've been wondering, looking at brass, availability, and price..........

Anyway, I daily carry a Coonan Classic 5" .357 magnum model 1911.

It can also fire .38 caliber by changing out the 22# recoil spring to 10#'s

So, here's my question........................................

Can a .38 brass, be loaded, so as to have the full magnum load? Because in my thoughts a semi-auto .357 mag, pistol should fire a heavy .38 which is of course a shorter bullet, but, alas, in a model 1911 it shouldn't matter right?

.38cal brass is half the cost of the longer .357 mag bass.....................
Click to expand...

As said, it is not a good idea to load 357 Magnum level charges in a 38 Special cases. The risks of the cartridges getting into a weak, 38 Special revolver is too great.

I understand that you are shooting a semi-auto pistol chambered for 357 Magnum and they tend to spew cases to the four points of the compass which makes it difficult to police the cases.

I prefer to use cases that are designed for what the chamber is machined for but then, I have revolvers chambered for 38 Special that I save 38 Special cases for.
 
.357 magnum automatic said:
Well, not sure just how stupid it is, but, I've been wondering, looking at brass, availability, and price..........

Anyway, I daily carry a Coonan Classic 5" .357 magnum model 1911.

It can also fire .38 caliber by changing out the 22# recoil spring to 10#'s

So, here's my question........................................

Can a .38 brass, be loaded, so as to have the full magnum load? Because in my thoughts a semi-auto .357 mag, pistol should fire a heavy .38 which is of course a shorter bullet, but, alas, in a model 1911 it shouldn't matter right?

.38cal brass is half the cost of the longer .357 mag bass.....................
Click to expand...
Messing around with things that go boom is not the place to cheap out. Spend the few extra coins for the correct case for the job. Light loads, Special brass; Heavy loads, magnum brass. KISS.
 
A clarification here, which may be critical for the application of a Coonan:

Although it is generally considered irresponsible because the ammo could inadvertently find its way into a 38spcl revolver which can’t tolerate such high pressures - it IS possible to load 38spcl brass to 357mag PRESSURE. In general, it’s simply a matter of reducing max 357mag loads by ~10% when using the 38spcl case.

However, that isn’t the same power factor as the same PRESSURE being loaded in the larger 357mag case. Less powder in the smaller case will reach the same pressure, which will then fall short on velocity, momentum, and kinetic energy. Such, you might find yourself somewhere between your two recoil springs, meaning these rounds would be too powerful for your lighter 38spcl compatible spring, but possibly too weak for the full power 357mag compatible spring.

Personally, if I were carrying a Coonan, I’d be more apt to buy 357mag brass and load it to 38spcl performance. In general, again, adding about 10% to a 38spcl load will yield similar pressure in a 357mag case, which would run slightly faster than intended for the 38spcl powered spring - so a guy would have to choose a low to mild 38spcl load then upcharge by 10% to hit a compatible velocity standard for the spring.

Sounds more complicated than it is, but it’s also not meant to be daftly simple when you’re talking about manipulating charges and cartridges used in a recoil spring operated semi-auto which is meant to potentially be your sword and shield in the face of a dragon. Cute tricks at the reloading bench aren’t appropriate in this context. I damned sure wouldn’t be playing this particular game just to save money on brass.
 
As said, it can be done but there are a thousand ways that your over pressure 38 Special rounds could find their way into a cheap little old 38 Special revolver. Even 25 years from now when a gun newbie buys them from your estate sale (for example) and thinks they are normal old 38 Specials. It's been done but I will never do it.
 
There is a middle ground that does apply and is safe called 38+p. This has a little more go but will not generate rapid disassembly in a 38 wheel gun unless it's an antique. It's what the cops used when they ended carrying 357s and are much more manageable for followups. The great thing about 357 is you can load the full power range and oal's if they function your gun. The feeding system in a lever is not so picky as long as the bullet profile is good. The springs and function is the hard part of what your doing as Varminterror said.
 
Early on in my reloading, in my experimenting stage, I loaded some 38 Special brass to lower 357 Magnum levels. I had sectioned a 38 and a 357 case and compared web, head and wall thicknesses and found little/no difference other than length. I didn't consider reduced case capacity, but used lower/starting loads with no obvious problems. Shot them in my 357 revolver of course...
 
Welcome! A Coonan Classic 5” was on my want list for a long time…then the company folded and prices on the Coonan pistols shot through the roof! :(

As the guys said above; when starting out stick to the basics, pay attention to the details, follow the manual recipes and don’t get the urge to stray off the beaten path, and you will load thousands and thousands of safe rounds. :thumbup: Once you start drifting above the norms, getting complacent (lazy!) at the bench or substituting components without knowing what is what, that is when guns blow up and body parts get stitches. :thumbdown:

Starline just sent me 500 new .357 cases last week. They are out there if you’re patient.

I rarely hotrod stuff, I try to stay under maximum for the caliber I am loading to give myself a cushion. Plus my experience has taught me the fastest loads are rarely the most accurate loads, so I am beating up my gun and myself just for the boom. (My experience is pretty limited to revolvers and rifle rounds since I started reloading in 1996. A lot of these guys here have many, many more years at the loading bench working with a much wider caliber/gauge spectrum than I.) Find the loads for your gun that keeps the bullets in the black rings, and you’ll be golden. ;)

Regarding firing .38 Spl in a .357 chamber, there is a situation where shooting a bunch of the shorter .38 rounds will leave a carbon, lead and associated crud ring in the longer .357 chamber. Following up by loading .357 loads after a .38 session can make chambering tougher until the crud ring is scrubbed out. If you go ahead and shoot both the .38 and .357 with a spring swap, I would be sure to clean the barrel/chamber of your Coonan before swapping calibers. I do wonder if the spring-powered action of the Coonan would stuff a .357 case into a chamber with a good crud ring with enough force to really stick it in place. That would not be fun if it did. :(

Stay safe.
 
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Ah, another chance to repost Skeeter's "My Friend, the .357".

It was, at one time, common to put up .357 loads in .38 cases. The famous old Lyman 358156 mold produced a bullet with two crimp grooves. The upper one was for use in .357 cases and the lower one for .38s. I personally have done it quite a bit, and while I don't recommend trying to put together real barn-burners in the .38 case, it is perfectly possible to get into the 1200 FPS range with a 158 grain bullet. Yes, you do have to be careful not to slip any of those little bombs into a J-frame, but that's hardly a unique issue. We have been loading extraordinarily hot "Ruger-only" .45 Colt loads for decades...

The real issue, though, is the cost of .357 brass. Never in my lifetime has it been twice as expensive as .38 brass, and even in today's ridiculous economy I see that it goes for just a few pennies per piece more. I'm not sure I have time to listen to a complaint about paying an extra three dollars for a bag of brass from someone who EDCs a $1500 pistol! :p
 
Back to basics, start by loading minimum loads, not +P ot big loads. Then work your way up to medium loads. For people that practice on the same property as their reloading station, they could easily try them before reloading the next batch.

You might go with 5 of each recipe with identical everything, including measured grains of powder. Write them down in your book, or enter the batch in a spreadsheet. Archive/ record every batch. It helps to number or code each batch. If you're thorough and patient, you could be teaching a safe, organized approach on the forums, soon.

This is about safe loads and never going beyond reasonable for that revolver's design, metallurgy, and considering carefully your safety, and those anywhere around you when using that firearm.
 
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Yeah, I thought of Elmer and Skeeter and their overloaded .38 Specials. Phil Sharpe published .38 loads that would curl even their hair.
I don't know if a Coonan will feed semiwadcutters, though.
Somebody makes a "round nose flat point" that loads to a long OAL for cheap .38 brass in .357 lever action CAS carbines.

But that is not the place to get into hand loading. Maybe not ever. My worst offense was loading Specials up to Major power factor for IPSC; typically a 158 at 1110+ fps.
 
Varminterror said:
However, that isn’t the same power factor as the same PRESSURE being loaded in the larger 357mag case. Less powder in the smaller case will reach the same pressure, which will then fall short on velocity, momentum, and kinetic energy.

Personally, if I were carrying a Coonan, I’d be more apt to buy 357mag brass and load it to 38spcl performance.
Click to expand...

+1 and +1
 
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