Single Action Skills?

I think you need to narrow down your usage on what you would like to learn to do.

There is fast draw, which you didn't mention, but where you race against other competitors to both draw and hit a plate at 5-7 yards. You'll have to work on both draw speed, pulling the hammer back, and pulling the trigger while shooting from the hip. You'll need a good holster for that, usually a drop leg type.

You could, if you have the space, learn to shoot long range revolver. Set up some steel at a known distance, and learn how to hold over with iron sights to drop the round onto the steel. Coupled with reloading your own ammo, you could work to get the most accurate load and learn to be rock steady as a target shooter.

This is similar to shooting silhouette, which was popular about 40-50 years ago and helped develop some of the super magnums like 357 maximum, 445, etc.

You could learn to shoot cowboy action, as you mentioned above. Most of those guns shoot under-powered rounds relative to potential in order to come on target quickly.

You could learn to do trick shooting, like Bob Munden was.

You could work on it for self-defense, in which case you may learn to reload quickly and/or use a second pre-loaded cylinder.

There's a lot of options, depending on what you want to learn. I would find something of interest, set a goal, and focus on attaining that goal through practice and training.

westernrover said:

I've heard of Cowboy Action Shooting. Is that the way to get skills? Or is it just a game?

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Well, it’s both, but really depends on what you want to get out of it. There are many different ways to shoot CAS. People can get into it and enjoy it for entirely different reasons. Some folks are in it to win it, others just like the guns and the period aesthetic.

Generally, though, CAS is going to be more about racing to put 5 rounds on target as quickly as possible. This usually means people slicking up their actions and loading the lightest ammunition they can get away with. There isn’t going to be a lot of tactical revolver reloading on the clock, etc., but there can be some occasionally.

Personally, I enjoy shooting ammunition that would be comparable to what I’d actually want to carry in real life. The powder puff load race isn’t very appealing to me. I’m a casual CAS shooter who enjoys the guns and the company, and a single action revolver is my preferred carry weapon.

It sounds like you aren’t quite sure what you’re after. Your write up suggests that you’re more interested in combat training, but is that the case? Or are you looking for more sport? If so, CAS and silhouette type shooting are probably what you’re looking at.

westernrover said:

I'm a little reluctant to even think of getting into it because of the expense in guns -- a second revolver, a rifle, and a shotgun that I don't have -- and those guns aren't even close to affordable or even available these days.

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FYI, I think most clubs have the “Working Cowboy” class that shoots with one revolver and a rifle — no shotgun. So you don’t need to be fully committed to the sport to show up. Check with your local club. Most are very accommodating and friendly to new shooters, and don’t want equipment to detract people from getting their feet wet.

Another piece of advice if you’re interested in revolvers in general would be to read Elmer Keith’s reference work Sixguns. There is a lot of great information in there to stoke your interest in single actions. Lots about shooting technique, holsters, hunting, combat, quick draw, history, cartridges, etc.

First, forget all the games. Start by watching LIng's video repeatedly and practicing what she shows.

my only real handgun training was as a civilian on g.i. s&w model 10 38sp revolvers almost 40 years ago. it was really great, way far better than what the army laughably described as training on the m1911 45acp pistol ten years earlier. i have since fallen into most-liking single action revolvers.

westernrover, you seem really up to speed on double action revolvers. are you sure that you just can’t self-teach with some video help and shooting range time? i too would love some real single action revolver training but the c.a.s.s. re-enactment thing isn’t for me. how about getting a ruger single six or wrangler for more/cheaper/easier rimfire shooting time, which is my way? or if you find a local chapter and an outdoor venue how about reaching out to hire a c.a.s.s. guy for a few hours?

A single action revolver can be fired one - handed or two handed. The basic skills to master are drawing, cocking and firing one - handed with each hand, then drawing, cocking and firing two-handed with each hand. You are not required to shoot a single action revolver from the hip. That’s Hollywood BS. Draw, cock while acquiring the sight picture, then make a good trigger squeeze. Use the thumb of your supporting hand to cock the hammer when shooting two-handed. (“Thumb whipping”; cowboy action champions do this faster than a semi-auto can cycle.)

The target distance, target size, and time between shots is your decision. For your leg’s and feet’s sake make sure you don’t cock the hammer until the muzzle has cleared leather and is pointing down range. Some enthusiastic cowboys limp because they didn’t follow this rule.

CAS can be fun and informative. There are those that want to win, at all cost. Many are there to have fun, make friends and do some shooting.

I agree, with the level of training you have had; modify the drills yourself and use the single action.

The big thing will be draw and cock hammer and recocking for follow up shots. Reloads are slow, but practice always helps.

I carry a single action, lots of times. Mostly in the pasture or woods. Rarely the concrete jungle, but it does happen.

Seems to me the OP already has most of what needs. The only real differences are hammer manipulation and loading, which can be practiced at home easily enough. I second the suggestion of just rewatching the Il Ling New videos and practicing - though for the truly devoted, it does appear that a few places still offer defensive training with the SA. http://www.marksmanshipmatters.com/classes-courses/single-action-revolver/

Tallinar said:

Personally, I enjoy shooting ammunition that would be comparable to what I’d actually want to carry in real life. The powder puff load race isn’t very appealing to me. I’m a casual CAS shooter who enjoys the guns and the company, and a single action revolver is my preferred carry weapon.

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I feel the same way regarding CAS. My 205 grain 45 Colt loads are traveling at 900fps. My 255 grain loads are around 800-825. I like the steel to make some noise when I hit it.

@westernrover
I would first start by getting accurate by target shooting your SA’s. Find the loads you like and are accurate with then move on to getting faster.

That thread on single actions sparked some further interest, eh? From what you've said, sounds like your double actions take care of your self defense needs quite fine, so trying to learn how to do that with a single action I suspect would seem useless to you. I would skip Cowboy Action Shooting also. Currently, it's all about running single actions as fast as one can manipulate the gun. As a double action shooter, I suspect you'd say why bother; your double actions already accomplish great speed.
Most of your skills with a DA transfer to single action; trigger control, sight aquisition etc. Only loading and unloading and hammer manipulation skills are different. What do you like to shoot just for pleasure? That's an area where a single action might fit in your lifestyle.

“Cowboy Action Shooting” involves hitting steel targets at quite close range, so, the velocity of the ammo has to be kept quite low, for safety reasons. This lightly-recoiling, low-velocity ammo allows some shooting techniques that may not work so well with higher-velocity hunting or defensive ammo. Cowboy Action Shooting is shooting against a clock. Clocks do not shoot back, nor do clocks charge, and attack with horns, antlers, fangs, or claws. So, single-action sixgunning is not a one-way-fits-all prospect.

Another big difference, in single-action technique, depends upon the size of one’s hands. My hands are long, but not wide, and I do not have long fingers or thumbs, so, the way I grip an SAA-sized grip is fundamentally different than what is shown on the you tube, by many of the presenters. One such presenter, a multi-time winner of numerous CAS matches, has huge hands, and shows a two-handed, pinky-under-the-grip technique that simply will not work well for MY narrow hands. Notably, I guess that I have 19th-Century hands, because an SAA-pattern grip fits me quite well, accommodating my middle, ring and little fingers, and thumb-cocking with my weapon-hand thumbs IS quite workable, if my support-hand thumb is otherwise occupied.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using firearms for sport, such as CAS, in my opinion. Some classes, in CAS, are for two-handed shooters, and, some are for one-handed shooters. I have not actually participated, and have only rarely spectated, and that was long ago, so, I will not comment further.

I worked 33+ years of night shift patrol, for a big-city PD, which does not make me any kind of expert, but I did learn that one often has something very important for one’s support hand to be doing, other than supporting the weapon, while holding the handgun in one’s weapon hand. So, it seemed important to be able to shoot one-handed, with any weapon I might use, for defensive carry. Now retired, and free of (most*) PD policies and procedures, I can use any handgun I choose, for defensive carry, so, I can carry an SAA-Pattern handgun, when I feel like it. Packin’ a pistol can be done, in a way that is fun. I shoot my SAA-pattern sixguns with defensive incidents in mind. This means I acquire a fighting grip, high on the grip frame.

If I ever do shoot CAS, it will be for fun, with no desire to win against the clock. I will grip and fire as if shooting defensively. I may choose a class that shoots one-handed.

*My “honorably retired” status can be revoked, for cause, or, the PD can simply decline to renew that status, which does have periodic expiration dates.

A nice thing about single-action sixguns is that they are a gentle-on-the-aging-hands way to propel satisfyingly large pieces of lead. Life is good.

When toting a single-action sixgun, a Baby Glock can be a dandy “tactical reload.”

Rexster said:

“Cowboy Action Shooting” involves hitting steel targets at quite close range, so, the velocity of the ammo has to be kept quite low, for safety reasons.

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No, that isn’t the reason for the light loads. Light loads are purely for speed of the shooter. Faster action, less recoil. The targets are close because gamers rule the game now. When I started in 97 the pistol targets were at more reasonable distances 7 to 10 yards and there was some challenge to the game. Now pistol targets are at around 5 yards and even less.
I refuse to shoot “mouse fart loads” what we used to call “Gamer Loads”. If they became mandatory I would quit.

Sorry, I know this thread isn’t about CAS. I just wanted to clear that up.

I like what Texas Ranger Captain Frank Hamer said, when challenged by someone who wanted to try to out-shoot him, using targets. Captain Hamer said to set up the targets at 100 yards. The challenger exclaimed that he meant to use handguns, not rifles, and Captain Hamer agreed that they would be using handguns.

Captain Frank Hamer led the successful hunt for Bonnie Parker and Clyde Barrow.

To be clear, I am not saying that I am prepared to shoot a 100-yard pistol match.

When discussing single action reloading, do that mean reloading the cylinder that is in the gun or swapping for a loaded cylinder? Or, can you pull the cylinder, dump it and use a speed loader or strip clips?

eddiememphis said:

When discussing single action reloading, do that mean reloading the cylinder that is in the gun or swapping for a loaded cylinder? Or, can you pull the cylinder, dump it and use a speed loader or strip clips?

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Normally, reloading is done with the cylinder in place, assuming that we are talking about full-sized fightin’ sixguns, in the Colt SAA pattern, or similar. Pulling the cylinder pin, to exchange cylinders, is possible, and is the norm for some few revolvers, but that is not something that I would want to do, during a real gunfight. Things have to be lined-up pretty darn precisely.

Here is a YT video, on reloading:



Notably, the first part of the video is specific to Rugers, but the final part applies to most single action revolvers.

Shoot a USPSA Match with a single action.

It is a fun experience and lots of learning occurs in a short amount of time.

-Stan

westernrover said:

I've heard of Cowboy Action Shooting. Is that the way to get skills? Or is it just a game? […] Are the skills in CAS even what I want to try to acquire?

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Yes, CAS/SASS is just a game.

BUT…

You WILL handle and fire your single action a LOT, and you WILL administratively load and clear your revolver a LOT, and WILL transition among targets a LOT… all of which are viable and valuable handgunning skills, and all of which are pertinent to mastery of the device. Familiarity and deep intimacy - and automaticity (“muscle memory”) - with the firearm all come from regular, persistent practice using said. Will you do some silly stuff in CAS/SASS which has no applicability in any defensive application? Sure. Will you dress kinda silly and maybe find yourself starting a stage by saying a line from some low budget western TV show in a Yosemite Sam accent? Yup. Will you learn how to effectively and efficiently manage and manipulate the firearm, how to quickly acquire sight pictures with the fire arm, how to quickly establish a familiar and productive grip, how to quickly acquire new targets and deliver shots onto multiple points of aim? Yes, to all of the above. Are all of those skills productive to the breadth and depth of mastery of the single action revolver? Absolutely.

stanley_white said:

Shoot a USPSA Match with a single action.

It is a fun experience and lots of learning occurs in a short amount of time.

-Stan

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I shot the Steel Challenge dressed as a cowboy with two Ruger Blackhawks; it was some great fun.

I shoot CAS for FUN.

But, I did not shoot ANYTHING for 7 months, fighting the Fauci released biohazard.
The first "match" back, my times were 50% longer than my previous level. By the 8th stage, times were improved, but not back to previous level.

Speed improves with practice. But, isn't a permanent level. Practice must be maintained.

Seedy Character said:

I shoot CAS for FUN.

But, I did not shoot ANYTHING for 7 months, fighting the Fauci released biohazard.
The first "match" back, my times were 50% longer than my previous level. By the 8th stage, times were improved, but not back to previous level.

Speed improves with practice. But, isn't a permanent level. Practice must be maintained.

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Yup! Thats why I try to shoot a variety of handguns every two weeks or so. Keeps me sharper than if I didn’t.

Stay safe.

Back when I was shooting CAS, I soon found that I was not as fast as the hotshots cocking with the off thumb, so I was an early entry in SASS Duelist, shot strong hand only with .44-40s.

My opinion: Single action is for nostalgia and games. Some* say the single action revolver is inherently stronger, but I think it's in the way the gun is built. Super Redhawk does OK with the stout loads, for example.

If you're handgun hunting, single action could be viable (Super Blackhawk, Freedom Arms) but at that point, you're getting into the really high power cartridges, so why not just go single shot? It's not like a coyote or deer or any animal is sticking around after that first shot. You either nailed 'im or he's gone. T/C's are better for targets, too and you can swap barrels and grip frames as well.

Single action revolvers were eclipsed because they're slower in real world combat scenarios. Then DA revolvers were eclipsed because auto pistols are faster. Technology marches on.

* was it Freedom Arms?

Smaug said:

My opinion: Single action is for nostalgia and games. Some* say the single action revolver is inherently stronger, but I think it's in the way the gun is built. Super Redhawk does OK with the stout loads, for example.

If you're handgun hunting, single action could be viable (Super Blackhawk, Freedom Arms) but at that point, you're getting into the really high power cartridges, so why not just go single shot? It's not like a coyote or deer or any animal is sticking around after that first shot. You either nailed 'im or he's gone. T/C's are better for targets, too and you can swap barrels and grip frames as well.

Single action revolvers were eclipsed because they're slower in real world combat scenarios. Then DA revolvers were eclipsed because auto pistols are faster. Technology marches on.

* was it Freedom Arms?

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And the title of this thread is Single Action skills . . . I guess the DA and the "bottom feeder" forums must be boring again.

Mike