Rossi 92 question

savagelover said:

125 gr cast is like a laser

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What powder and charge are you using with that?

The only difficult thing about that light bullet is if you hit the shoulder or a heavy bone wrong you’ll wound the critter and lose it in the scrub. I’m not familiar with the pigs up in Pennsy but down here we got mostly under 200lb and pretty lean pigs and I would be hesitant to go that light with soft cast. You won’t get much of a blood trail. I’m really kinda perplexed the 158gr didn’t work out. It’s kinda the goto for those rifles.
Try the 125gr but go for a quartering away shot and try to punch the heart from behind the rib cage. I’ve used super hard round nose 160gr like that but I get them up to around 1500fps from a rifle barrel using generous amounts of 2400. Punches clear through from just behind the last rib through the collar bone.
Edit: sorry, you’re talking deer, not pigs. Advice stays the same but white tails are harder to take down with a short light .35 caliber. I’m thinking you might end up chasing a lost deer.

You are using a marginal cartridge and now you want to use a light for caliber bullet. No bueno, IMO. Maybe try a jacketed bullet?

i used to cast a 158gr tumble lubed bullet out of a lee mold and 7grs of greendot and worked well for me in my rossi 92 you might try that!

I'm running a 158 jsp at 14 grains of #9. Wit 357 getting to and hitting the vitals is my main worry. I have considered using my 180 sil cast to maximize penitration and screw expansion. Due to sectional density I would not go below a 158.

savagelover said:

I suppose your right. I've got some 158 gr xtp's. Guess I better try them out. Appreciate the replies.

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If you can get them, 158 grain XTP-FPs would be ideal.

I agree with your next move of trying out 158 gr XTPs, but your experience does make me wonder a bit.

Do you happen to experience any barrel leading when using the gas-checked bullets? I know that seems like a counter-intuitive question, but the reason I ask is because I wonder if the gas check is actually under-sized for the bore, to the such a point that straight-up obturated lead based bullets are giving you better accuracy.

If it were me at this point, out of sheer curiosity, I would take those same gas-checked 158 gr bullets, and load 20 rounds -- 10 with gas check, 10 with gas check removed -- at the same powder charge. You may need to load to a lower velocity so as to account for the lack of gas check. I would then shoot a careful string of 10 with the gas check, clean the bore, and then fire a careful string of the non-gas checked, and just see if there's any difference.

Or you could slug your bore and compare your findings to your gas check diameter, but where's the fun in that?

Or just leave it alone and move on with life, like a sane person.

Those 158gr XTP's should work out of your Rossi. Too bad you don't have any coated cast 180gr rnfp's. 11.5-12.0gr 2400 and that deer is in the freezer.

I did some tests on the .357 Magnum in a levergun w/18.5" barrel.
The best accuracy and velocity with heavy bullet was with Lil'Gun.
Using Lil'Gun and:
170gr SIE 170gr JHC, 17.0gr, AV 1793 fps
180gr XTP/HP, 15.0gr, AV 1584 fps
180gr CP WFNGC bullet, 14.8gr, 1657 fps

I'm sure with those velocities with those heavier bullets the Deer won't go far when hit correctly if they move at all.

Tallinar said:

If it were me at this point, out of sheer curiosity, I would take those same gas-checked 158 gr bullets, and load...10 with gas check removed -- at the same powder charge.

Or just leave it alone and move on with life, like a sane person.

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My thoughts as well. It can't hurt to send some lead downrange without the gas checks.

A sane person would use a .30-30. But where's the fun in that?

I'm thinking a 357 lever rifle especially when hunting should be loaded to the listed max of 2400, H110 or similar. That's what gas check bullets are designed for and they shoot the best at magnum velocities. Hunting with a 357, maximum penetration I think should be your goal instead of expansion.

According to Berger's Ballistic twist rate stability calculator 1-30 rifling is to slow for 158gr SWC bullets (.677" length), even at 1750 fps. The 158gr SWC 357 dia bullet is only marginally stable. It's just too long to be ideal for a 1/30 twist according to the calculator.
But the XTP FP bullet in 158 gr is .662 long and just makes the stability rating of just a hair over 1.50
If I put in 125 gr XTP JHP bullet dimentions and it comes out stable
https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
The longer the bullet the faster you have to spin it to be stable in flight. For that diameter that 125gr bullet length seem to favorable for the 1/30" rifling.
That may be why you can't get the 158 gr bullets to group as well as the 125 gr bullets.
This is the 125 gr XTP bullet @ .547" long.
This is for SWC lead bullets. Length of .677".
This is for XTP-FP JHP bullets. .662" in length.
These XTP-FP bullets are the only xtps I have here so that's why I used them for length. Normal XTPs will be about the same length.

Here are the numbers I plugged in.

So try the 158gr XTPs to see if they tighten up your group some.

Just for fun I put 1/24" twist and all .357 dia bullets came out favorable. Make me wonder why Rossi use a 1/30 twist for this rifle.

For that twist rate, you really need a cast 158 gr RNFP at about .625” long. That should give you good stability from around 1100 fps and upwards. Calculators are good for a place to start, but you need real life testing to verify. All guns are unique, and some will surprise you wit results.

Maybe try with an Acme Bullet 158 RNFP or similar design. I’d stick with a powder like 2400, IMR 4227, H110, or similar burn rate for best velocity from a rifle. Speed and short bullet length are your friends at that twist rate.

Rossi rifling is not a problem for 158xtp or even 180xtp at high speeds. At low speeds 158 is about as long as I could go with cast, I could never get 180's to fly well around subsonic speeds. Wondering if maybe your gun doesnt like that particular bullet or is it sized correctly to your bore?

As to effectiveness I think you could make your light cast bullets work but heavier is probably easier. I shot hogs with rem factory 38+P UMC ammo which gets the 125 SJHP to 1300fps from a lever action. Mostly broadside shots where they fed off baits at night, range under 40 yards, so controlled conditions.

Another vote for the 158xt HP as it has one of the best expansion windows. Even just subsonic the nose expands a little to 50cal and penetrates a couple feet of ballistics gel and its still dynamite pushed to 1700fps on large hogs . The 125xtp, 140xtp for some reason have harder HP noses( as does the 180) and no expansion at subsonic speed. I bought some of the lighter bullets for reduced loads but found the 158's out performed them.

I done some searching and discovered you are in fact correct about your Rossi having a 1:30 twist. I've never heard of a twist rate even close to being that slow in 357 caliber. So all the more reason to abandon Unique and only use full charge magnum loadings in it to speed up your projectiles.
This is my opinion only and it may be worth what you paid for it.

bluetopper said:

I done some searching and discovered you are in fact correct about your Rossi having a 1:30 twist. I've never heard of a twist rate even close to being that slow in 357 caliber. So all the more reason to abandon Unique and only use full charge magnum loadings in it to speed up your projectiles.
This is my opinion only and it may be worth what you paid for it.

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I second this sentiment.
That's why I run H110. It gives me the best accuracy in my R92 with any bullet.
I don't have the OP's gun of choice of powders. So I can't comment on that.
But I do know a jacketed 125 at 1400 fps will not penetrate the shoulder and ribs of a 150 pound pig. A deer is not as tough so it will probably penetrate to the vitals. But it definitely won't give pass through.
On a different thread he mentioned having 2400. That combined with 158xtp should be excellent.

I'm surprised more emphasis hasn't been placed on the powder used.

Unique and Green Dot are great powders to use for midrange .357 loads, but I wouldn't ever consider them for hunting loads in a .357 carbine.

My Rossi 92 in .357 with its 1:30 twist stabilizes bullets up to 180 grains just fine. However, I'm using full magnum loads with powders like 2400, 296, and 300MP.

Your Rossi 92 will work just beautifully for deer hunting with 158 grain bullets, either cast or JHP. You just need to use it with full magnum loads, not midrange loads.

The .357 out of a carbine is far from a marginal cartridge for deer.

Me personally I like the Grizzly LBT 200gr RFN gas checked over 13.5gr of 2400 in a locked breech rifle. But that’s not a cheap bullet or a low pressure load and I’m not shooting it out of a lever gun with a lifter and toggle action so it doesn’t matter if it works for me. Question is why the OP can’t get 158gr cast to work in a rifle designed for 158gr cast?

GeoDudeFlorida said:

Me personally I like the Grizzly LBT 200gr RFN gas checked over 13.5gr of 2400 in a locked breech rifle. But that’s not a cheap bullet or a low pressure load and I’m not shooting it out of a lever gun with a lifter and toggle action so it doesn’t matter if it works for me. Question is why the OP can’t get 158gr cast to work in a rifle designed for 158gr cast?

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Starting with the 1886, Winchester stopped using a toggle link lever action. They went to the stronger rear locking wedges or bars. This was continued in the 92 and 94 model.
Mine has been modified to 360DW without issue other than a substantial increase in recoil and velocity. I'm pushing 180s at just under 2000 fps.
Before that I was running cast 158s in the mid 1900s.
Brass life has been good even at these loadings.

Well, with a 1/30 twist rifling, at least he shouldn't have much of a problem with lead bullets leading his barrel.

Geez, didn't know Rossi's had a 1:30 twist. My Henry .357[20" barrel] is 1:16 twist. I use 2400, Unique or Universal.