What happened to 40 caliber?

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Popularity and availability. The same reason used 40's are always cheaper than a similar used 9 of a similar type (a Glock 19 vs a Glock 23, for example). From looking at ammo for sale lately, it seems like the supply is in favor of the 9mm vs a similar product for 40, with the 40 always being a little more expensive. I don't see the 40 "dying" or fading into total obscurity like 357 Sig, or 9mm largo just based on the number of 40 pistols already in circulation and continuing to be made, along with it continuing to endure among some agencies.
 
CDW4ME said:
Ever heard of fictional "caliber war"? You know the term that only exists on gun forums.
Well lets suppose there was a mythical "caliber war" - what happened to 40 is part of the tale.
In the 1970's - 1980s 38 special,357 mag and 45 acp were the reigning champions.
By the early 1990's 9mm and 45 had taken over the revolvers throne.
But since a lot of people wanted more diameter than 9mm and more bullets than 45 - the 40 was born (roll with my story, aint got time to include 10mm).
LE like the 40 which meant civilians liked the 40.
But then bullet makers made new "modern" 9mm and many people were like hhhuuummm - that "modern" 9mm kinda performs like 40
LE having "small stature" and shooters not "into" shooting found it easier for all personnel to pass qualification with softer shooting 9mm than 40
LE decides that they are going back to 9mm and not long afterward civilian shooters followed suit.
What happened to 40? "Modern" 9mm. And that is why if there ever was a "caliber war" there is no such thing now as 9mm won. (Now we just have caliber discussions)[/t
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Maybe we have de-evolved by going back to the 9mm? I mean, why shoot a 9mm if, as you say, that “modern 9mm kinda performs like 40?”
If it’s the small-stature, recoil sensitive argument, then that seems to be another way of suggesting “it’s the Indian and not the arrow.”

I’ll still take cubic inches any day. Pass me the 45 in a semi-auto.
 
amd6547 said:
I was an early adopter of the 9mm, starting with it when most cops carried .38’s. Was always satisfied with the performance of a hot 9mm load.
But I couldn’t ignore the cheap police surplus .40 deals, and ended up with a like new G22 Gen4 with night sights for a ridiculously cheap price.
After a couple range trips, it quickly became my favored home defense pistol. It really likes the HST 180. Plus,its a great woods round, loaded with a hot solid. I don’t notice much difference in recoil shooting the G17 with hot +P or +P+ 9mm service ammo, and the nearly identical G22. People, mention lower capacity… I don’t feel too deprived going from 17 9’s to 15 .40’s. After all…13 9’s in a Browning HiPower was plenty for me for a lot of years, lol.
So, I guess I say thanks, police, for throwing away these great pistols in this great caliber.
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My experience is similar. I don’t even shoot my 9s anymore. Have always been an ardent 45 shooter, until I picked up one of those surplus 40s (G22.3).
I’m really enamored with the 40 now. And the 180 seems to be the magic weight. I’ve never felt that the recoil was an issue.
 
Slamfire said:
So what is going on?
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The ebb and flow of "fashion."
Where are the "ae" calibers?
Ditto 45gap, or 50gi, even 38acp.
9x19 stayed inexpensive, and it was more available even during the drought. And people (lucky or smart) had stockpiled cheap cases ofr the stuff in the beforetimes.
And, as a slightly finer point, revolver cases are more likely to land in a bucket than to be left on the ground where they land.

Mark_Mark said:
10 Super Carry (.40 lol)
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Hmm, to be an SC, wouldn't that want, say, a 95gr projectile to go with a 50K chamber pressure? :D
 
CapnMac said:
The ebb and flow of "fashion."
Where are the "ae" calibers?
Ditto 45gap, or 50gi, even 38acp.
9x19 stayed inexpensive, and it was more available even during the drought. And people (lucky or smart) had stockpiled cheap cases ofr the stuff in the beforetimes.
And, as a slightly finer point, revolver cases are more likely to land in a bucket than to be left on the ground where they land.


Hmm, to be an SC, wouldn't that want, say, a 95gr projectile to go with a 50K chamber pressure? :D
Click to expand...
that bullet would fall apart
 
Slamfire said:
What happened to 40 caliber?

So what is going on?

I miss the days when I picked up coffee cans worth of 38 Special. Its a blue moon when I find any of those.
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40S&W may have gone the way of .357 Magnum ... People have the guns but may shoot .38 Special ammunition.

Likewise, many people may have the guns like Glock 40S&W but may be shooting 9mm with 40-9mm conversion barrels or 22LR with Advantage Arms slide kits. (That's what I did during Covid shortage to save on components/cost)

So when you pick up 9mm brass, they may have been shot in 40S&W pistols. ;)

How can you tell?

Some cases may have slight imprint of 40S&W extractor mark on the inside case base rim.
 
Is it gone?

When passing the single covered handgun range, or the AP ranges at our Huge private club (MSSA-the largest within 200 miles?) , all I hear is Bang !

If I somehow had found a Local, used DAO Sig P229 (but found none) about four years ago, the chambering / ‘caliber’ would have made no difference. What a superb trigger—-

A centerfire handgun’s ergos and reliability, to me, are far too important to overanalyze the chambering- even if just a range gun.
 
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mavracer said:
It's all the lemmings that followed the FBI to the 40 following the FBI back to the 9mm.
In the meantime I'm good with it as I've picked up several 40s for clearance prices.
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I took advantage of one of those lemmings by offering to trade him round-for-round all of the cheap white box Winchester 9mm he wanted in exchange for his .40 ammo, half of it being hollow points...
Happy day for both of us.
 
Slamfire said:
If popularity is based on the brass I pick up at the range, 9mm is by far the champion. It used to be I picked up a fair amount of 40 S&W, now, it is onesies and twosies. I find more 380 Auto than 40 caliber.

So what is going on?

I miss the days when I picked up coffee cans worth of 38 Special. Its a blue moon when I find any of those.
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Well yes, see here is what I do. I get up really early, before sunrise. Then I run to the range and scarf up all the .38 Special before you get there. Then I run back home and get it started cleaning. :)

I really don't know. Years ago right after they shortened the 10 mm and developed the .40 S&W I had a Beretta 96 which followed selling my Colt Delta Elite in 10 mm. I liked both cartridges but a few real good offers came along. After about 3,000 rounds the 10 mm was starting to rattle but I enjoyed both. Now I keep reading where the .40 is falling or has fallen from grace. The cartridge is really pretty tame to shoot so no clue why but that's the gun rag read of late. At my age now I just don't plan on adding a cartridge to what I currently have and load.

Ron
 
amd6547 said:
But I couldn’t ignore the cheap police surplus .40 deals, and ended up with a like new G22 Gen4 with night sights for a ridiculously cheap price.
Click to expand...

Yep, me too. IMHO, a G22 or 23 may be the Chevy 350 of pistols. Inexpensive to pick up, plenty usable as is, easy and cheap to modify...etc. With one frame a man can shoot .40, 357sig, and 9mm. What's not to love? Fwiw, I also shoot/dabble in 10mm reloading, so I get double the use out of bullets. :)
 
There is one additional factor that helped drive the popularity of.40 S&W in the 1990s and early 2000s, and that was the asinine 1994 “ban” that severely jacked up the price on over-10-round pistol magazines. Standardized rifle magazines weren’t much affected once things settled down, but pistol mags are proprietary, and unlike STANAG and Warsaw Pact compatible rifle magazines, there simply weren’t warehouses full of millions of preban Glock mags sitting overseas waiting to be imported. So prices for over-10-round pistol magazines went through the roof (my then-wife paid $100 for a single preban Glock 19 mag for her G26, as I recall). Worse, if a company brought out a new pistol with a new proprietary magazine, then you were stuck with the little 10-round “Clinton Clips” whether you liked it or not. The net result was to pull the rug out from under the 9mm to some extent, and drive the market toward larger calibers like .40 and .45. Especially since the .40 and .45 were arguably more effective cartridges than 9mm with the loads that were available at the time.

A whole lot of people decided that if their new proprietary-mag Wonderblaster was going to be stuck with a measly 10 rounds, either because it was a new design or because they didn’t want to pay $100+ per magazine, then they would rather have 10+1 rounds of .40 than 10+1 rounds of 9mm. And .40 still offered a capacity advantage over .45, while being shootable in 9mm-sized pistols (unlike 10mm).

Once the hated quasi-ban went away and full-capacity 9mm mags became cheap and abundant again, having a pistol with less power but improved capacity became viable again, and so the artificial conditions that helped to push the .40 to the top of the market became moot.

.455_Hunter said:
The .40 is definitely a better choice if your threat matrix includes potentially hostile 4-legged threats weighing over 100 lbs.
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Indeed. When camping in the woods in bear country, I’d feel much better with a .40 with 15 rounds of Buffalo Bore 200gr hardcast than a 9mm with 17-19 rounds of 147gr.
 
benEzra said:
There is one additional factor that helped drive the popularity of.40 S&W in the 1990s and early 2000s, and that was the asinine 1994 “ban” that severely jacked up the price on over-10-round pistol magazines. Standardized rifle magazines weren’t much affected once things settled down, but pistol mags are proprietary, and unlike STANAG and Warsaw Pact compatible rifle magazines, there simply weren’t warehouses full of millions of preban Glock mags sitting overseas waiting to be imported. So prices for over-10-round pistol magazines went through the roof (my then-wife paid $100 for a single preban Glock 19 mag for her G26, as I recall). Worse, if a company brought out a new pistol with a new proprietary magazine, then you were stuck with the little 10-round “Clinton Clips” whether you liked it or not. The net result was to pull the rug out from under the 9mm to some extent, and drive the market toward larger calibers like .40 and .45. Especially since the .40 and .45 were arguably more effective cartridges than 9mm with the loads that were available at the time.

A whole lot of people decided that if their new proprietary-mag Wonderblaster was going to be stuck with a measly 10 rounds, either because it was a new design or because they didn’t want to pay $100+ per magazine, then they would rather have 10+1 rounds of .40 than 10+1 rounds of 9mm. And .40 still offered a capacity advantage over .45, while being shootable in 9mm-sized pistols (unlike 10mm).

Once the hated quasi-ban went away and full-capacity 9mm mags became cheap and abundant again, having a pistol with less power but improved capacity became viable again, and so the artificial conditions that helped to push the .40 to the top of the market became moot.


Indeed. When camping in the woods in bear country, I’d feel much better with a .40 with 15 rounds of Buffalo Bore 200gr hardcast than a 9mm with 17-19 rounds of 147gr.
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Valid points. I didn't like 40 S&W till I happened on a M&P40C with holster, mags, and an amp can of ammo for the price of the gun. I still didn't care for it really.
Then I had 4 200 pound hogs in a trap and it was the only thing on me. Those flat point target loads will drop hogs better than a 357.
To me it's the best combination of power, capacity, and size.
 
I've carried a 1006 for nearly 25 years... I like the post "40 short n weak"... Heck now you can get a "compact" 10mm that rivals the 9's size... I do have large hands though so a FS auto fits me better... I don't pick up much 40 s&w brass at the range anymore... To me the 40 is middle ground... IMHO that's it's downfall... And I'd rather have it's parent ctg... I started appendix carrying an XDM in 10mm this past year... Liked having 16 rnds on board plus a mag or two extra... Why yes wife it is a 10mm... but I'm also glad to see ya...
 
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Anchorite said:
Maybe we have de-evolved by going back to the 9mm? I mean, why shoot a 9mm if, as you say, that “modern 9mm kinda performs like 40?”
If it’s the small-stature, recoil sensitive argument, then that seems to be another way of suggesting “it’s the Indian and not the arrow.”

I’ll still take cubic inches any day. Pass me the 45 in a semi-auto.
Click to expand...

Me providing a not completely inaccurate Cliff Notes of history is not saying I agree (or not) with the result. ;)
 
Where I live we're towards the end of the local handgun ammunition shortage. The local stores, small and large, have most of their handgun ammo in stock most of the time.

22lr and 9mm came back first. Way earlier than the others.

Then I started seeing some 45acp, and very soon afterwards, 40 S&W. 380 was a while after that.

I'm finally starting to see (expensive) 38 special regularly now.

40 is not dead. Like the other posters said, the local big box stores are selling plenty of ammo, and they have some NiB 40 caliber pistols to sell you, too.

I am grateful to the FBI. I got a number of excellent police turn-in 40 caliber pistols for very low prices when the departments were all dumping them a few years ago. The Sig P229 is a particular favorite of mine, and it would have been hard to afford otherwise.

Ironically, my next handgun purchase will be a 9mm conversion barrel for the Sig. It's just a range toy. I might as well use the cheaper ammo with it. (Did the same with my Glock Model 22.)
 
IMO, in the end, .40 S&W was a solution to a non-existent problem. FBI agents couldn't handle 10 mm well, so .40 "short & weak" was born, and now I'm reading that they're back to 9 mm, anyway.

Some viewed .40 S&W as the happy medium between 9 mm and .45 ACP, but some didn't feel like the minimal ballistic gains over 9 mm were worth the loss in capacity and increase in cost (at various points, anyway). Modern 9 mm defensive ammo is pretty good with higher capacity, and good 10 mm ammo has far superior ballistics to .40 S&W with the same capacity. A 10 mm is hard to match in terms of the combo of potency and capacity. I do know people who love .357 Sig, but I don't see a lot of those out there. If someone wanted one handgun for all purposes, it would be easy to make a case for 10 mm.
 
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