Small base die for semi-autos?

GW Staar said:

To each their own.....I just went downstairs and checked on Winchester brand, and it feeds and chambers that just fine. I don't buy the exoteric brands, so I can't say with those. So actually it was just the Federal blue box I owned. But the possibility of reloading LC brass (which I have a lot of) to something approaching that Federal box, is possible maybe even probable. So you're saying rechambering the gun is preferable to just squeezing reloaded bases 2 thousands Dia. (I measured it) with a S.B. sizer?

Two reasons why not IMO.....1: Most of us aren't machists, or gunsmiths....costs of hiring it done would be way more than buying 1 sizer that fixes the problem. 2: Would prefer the accuracy of the tighter chamber, when it loads everything else but Federal blue box. (And maybe that's just a Q.C. problem with those Federals).

If my rifle baulked at loading Winchester or Remington I'd have taken the rifle back, or if I couldn't.....find a gunsmith....but it didn't and s.b. bases make my reloads super dependable.

You said, "If I had a size die that could not return a case to factory dimensions, I would replace it."

That'd be every normal sizer made including Dillon's normal (S.B). Even S.B. dies don't squeeze bases all the way to normal factory dimensions. Just a little more than regular dies. 1 thousandth less radius.

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Which die are you using and how much sizing is it producing ?
It might be helpful to share the information .
I’ll attach an example of how I share die information while using ‘my tools’. Most guys find it very helpful without spending money to get a number that may or may not help their program.

This cat makes what’s called a ring die, I have not used one however I would pass the information along

GW Staar said:

Even S.B. dies don't squeeze bases all the way to normal factory dimensions.

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No die that requires the use of a shell holder to remove the case from the die can size the case to factory dimensions everywhere, because the die can’t even touch some parts.

That said, I do own a couple of roll size machines that even clean up in the extractor groove, if needed.

jmorris said:

If I had one rifle that would not run on factory ammunition, I would fix it. Who knows I might want to run factory ammunition sometime.

If I had a size die that could not return a case to factory dimensions, I would replace it.

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This ^^^^ 100%. Never is a very long time, and one might want or need to use factory ammo at some point.

jmorris said:

Once a brass case enters and exits the chamber ok, making it smaller only creates a situation where it can be worked more.

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Again, this ^^^^ 100%. Working the brass more can only lead to shortened case life IMO.

GW Staar said:

Two reasons why not IMO.....1: Most of us aren't machists, or gunsmiths....costs of hiring it done would be way more than buying 1 sizer that fixes the problem. 2: Would prefer the accuracy of the tighter chamber, when it loads everything else but Federal blue box. (And maybe that's just a Q.C. problem with those Federals).

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I agree that most of us aren't machinists or gunsmiths, although I might argue that most reloaders will tinker, making them "somewhat amateur" gunsmiths. Some are better than others.

And I also agree that some would prefer the added accuracy of a tighter chamber, assuming it is more accurate. If it didn't feed/load Federal blue box then I wouldn't buy any more, but I would certainly try to find out why the ammo didn't work.

GW Staar said:

If my rifle baulked at loading Winchester or Remington I'd have taken the rifle back, or if I couldn't.....find a gunsmith....but it didn't and s.b. bases make my reloads super dependable.

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I'm curious why you wouldn't bother to "fix it" or "figure it out" with the Federal ammo but you would with Winchester or Remington. Not trying to insult you or start an argument, just curious.

A very good friend of my father (and also my friend) has a Winchester rifle that will eat anything except Winchester ammo. He's tried every type, brand, and bullet weight/shape of ammo he could get (he doesn't reload) and everything but the Winchester works. He just doesn't buy Winchester ammo for that rifle.

jmorris said:

That said, I do own a couple of roll size machines that even clean up in the extractor groove, if needed.

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This, in my opinion, is the only way to return fired brass back to new factory specs. I would like to have a roll sizer, but reality tells me I most likely never will.

I don't use small base dies, I don't need them (yet), but if they work for someone then they work. I do find this thread to be very interesting.

chris

Lee used to say all there dies are small base. 2-4 thou seems to be what the sb dies are. I was going to order the rcbs 6mms arc sb die but see guys are having problems. Looks to be the die is sizing a bit much, enuff that it is making the brass look like belted magnums.

Rcbs dies are based on Sammi chamber dimensions not Sammi ammunition specifications. I have yet to find a die that returns a case to factory dimensions but they may exist. The long standing discussion is moving as little brass the minimum distance possible so I'm sure reaching Sammi ammunition spec is rarely accomplished or even desired.

frogfurr said:

I recently purchased a M1A and will start reloading soon for it. I purchased a new die set with a FL sizing die. Will I need to buy a small base die also?

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More than likely NO . Die's are a standard chamber size ( actually slightly under standard chamber or minimum provided You purchase Decent Dies . I run Older and Newer LC brass in 7.62x51mm , aka .308 as well as 7.62x63mm aka .30 Cal or 30-06 if one prefers and have ZERO problems resizing brass ,in order to reload .

Honestly they ONLY problems I've run into has been , SAW weapons casings and those require a GOOD cleaning with a liberal dose of Lube ( just watch the Neck shoulder and case mouth areas for excessive lube ) Those cases are BUGGERS to RESIZE or can be .

I use the 90/180 270 rotation lube sizing method , meaning partial size slip more lube on and rotate the case . I've simplified My lube by using Boeshield T9 lubricant and wear a nitrile glove . This allows ME to have lube on hand literally while rotating cases and sizing while rotating them .

YOU really need to KNOW what your rifles chamber will accept and size accordingly ,because there NOT all the same . MY AR-10's in .308 AREN'T the same as MY M14's and can quickly cause problems IF I switch or swap ammo . I can rectify that by doing all cases to minimal size such as SB Dies do ,however that stretches brass excessively in a couple and shortens case life . MY advice MEASURE Your chamber and size 0.004" under and keep an eye on OAL of case trim when necessary .

AJC1 said:

Rcbs dies are based on Sammi chamber dimensions not Sammi ammunition specifications. I have yet to find a die that returns a case to factory dimensions but they may exist. The long standing discussion is moving as little brass the minimum distance possible so I'm sure reaching Sammi ammunition spec is rarely accomplished or even desired.

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Stop looking ; THEY DON'T . I have #7-9 different brands including Military ammunition in 7.62x51mm and .30 Cal , ALL of them measure slightly differently ,some real close others 0.002-5 off actual diameter . Ammunition manufacturers use DIFFERENT types of sizing Dies ,than consumers do . Even SB Dies can't get the cases back to their original ammunition manufactures dimensions . Believe ME I'VE TRIED and I own an inordinate amount of Dies in ALL brands and several are actually COATED Dies ,which would be even smaller than what others would purchase .

BushMaster-15 said:

Stop looking ; THEY DON'T . I have #7-9 different brands including Military ammunition in 7.62x51mm and .30 Cal , ALL of them measure slightly differently ,some real close others 0.002-5 off actual diameter . Ammunition manufacturers use DIFFERENT types of sizing Dies ,than consumers do . Even SB Dies can't get the cases back to their original ammunition manufactures dimensions . Believe ME I'VE TRIED and I own an inordinate amount of Dies in ALL brands and several are actually COATED Dies ,which would be even smaller than what others would purchase .

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It's not a goal of mine to find a set, I'm in the minimum brass movement required for reliable function camp.

BushMaster-15 said:

...............MY AR-10's in .308 AREN'T the same as MY M14's and can quickly cause problems IF I switch or swap ammo . I can rectify that by doing all cases to minimal size such as SB Dies do ,however that stretches brass excessively in a couple and shortens case life . MY advice MEASURE Your chamber and size 0.004" under and keep an eye on OAL of case trim when necessary .

Click to expand...

See that's the point.....do you want to make ammo that only runs in one of your guns, then another batch to run in another gun. Or do you want to hire a smith to make all your .308's chamber the same? .......Or S.B all the ammo where you can fire it in all of them...... My thought is, 2 thousandths sizing there above the shell holder/plate, is not nearly as detrimental to your brass, as what happens in the neck.....every time it's sized and every time it's fired.....that's where brass failure will occur first. That said, the RCBS AR dies I'm using DO push the shoulder down a thousandth more than my conventional die also..... Would rather they didn't, and don't really understand why RCBS thinks they need to size a little more there, but they do.

One was curious why I wouldn't bother to fix the Federal I had......

Well mostly because I hadn't bought that much Federal .308. The rifle was new.... Other calibers especially .243 for another Remington. I have bought a lot of Federal and have reloaded it a lot also. But on the AR-10 clone just the one box.....not on purpose....just what I found on that day at the store I was at......no prejudice involved...bought one box of Remington too......just shock when only the Federal wouldn't chamber the second round. I let the slide go...the first round slammed in chamber....fired....and the next round did not autochamber.....over and over repeat....the same place, near the base, location detected, with magic marker vertical stripe trick. I did disassemble and reload it with the S.B. die and it worked the way it should have.....this all happened years ago....Obama November! Maybe that was it.

GW Staar said:

See that's the point.....do you want to make ammo that only runs in one of your guns, then another batch to run in another gun. Or do you want to hire a smith to make all your .308's chamber the same? .......Or S.B all the ammo where you can fire it in all of them...... My thought is, 2 thousandths sizing there above the shell holder/plate, is not nearly as detrimental to your brass, as what happens in the neck.....every time it's sized and every time it's fired.....that's where brass failure will occur first. That said, the RCBS AR dies I'm using DO push the shoulder down a thousandth more than my conventional die also..... Would rather they didn't, and don't really understand why RCBS thinks they need to size a little more there, but they do.

One was curious why I wouldn't bother to fix the Federal I had......

Well mostly because I hadn't bought that much Federal .308. The rifle was new.... Other calibers especially .243 for another Remington. I have bought a lot of Federal and have reloaded it a lot also. But on the AR-10 clone just the one box.....not on purpose....just what I found on that day at the store I was at......no prejudice involved...bought one box of Remington too......just shock when only the Federal wouldn't chamber the second round. I let the slide go...the first round slammed in chamber....fired....and the next round did not autochamber.....over and over repeat....the same place, near the base, location detected, with magic marker vertical stripe trick. I did disassemble and reload it with the S.B. die and it worked the way it should have.....this all happened years ago....Obama November! Maybe that was it.

Click to expand...

Small shoulder adjustment is normal, and backing out the die ever so slightly will give you back that .001. As your brass hardens you may need that .001 caused by spring back.

AJC1 said:

Small shoulder adjustment is normal, and backing out the die ever so slightly will give you back that .001. As your brass hardens you may need that .001 caused by spring back.

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Of course.....but those AR dies push the shoulder back a little more than my conventional dies......which was curious.

AJC1 said:

It's not a goal of mine to find a set, I'm in the minimum brass movement required for reliable function camp.

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That's the goal, but AR's require more clearance and therefore brass movement than a bolt gun. Many even dent the necks ejecting and require more brass movement still in resizing.

South Prairie Jim said:

Which die are you using and how much sizing is it producing ?
It might be helpful to share the information .

Click to expand...

sizes typically 2thou diameter more than an RCBS conventional .308 sizer.....just off the shellholder. RCBS AR set and a RCBS S.B. sizer (same thing just that the set includes a taper crimp seater). Don't remember the shoulder work except that it was a little more than conventional. A few years have past....maybe a thousandth or two.

GW Staar said:

One was curious why I wouldn't bother to fix the Federal I had......

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That would be me, and thank you for the answer. I have a little better understanding now.

chris

I've shown this picture before; once fired M.G. LC 2013 brass, deprimed, wet tumbled, swaged, sized, and ready to load, but it's relevant to this thread: (there has to be a picture)''



It was a bear to size on my Rock Chucker II, (small base die didn't help that) but I got it done....and I discovered a few things in the process:

1. Blinged (wet with pins) MG brass is even harder to size with than using dry tumbled corncob. Almost stuck a case 3 times, until I banished Imperial, and lanolin. So I experimented with lubes since I had the mother of all hard sizing jobs. #1 was STP, but it was too messy.....worked, hated it. Best compromise was RCBS lube pad with their water-based pad lube tube. Zero problems sizing.....not a cake walk, but it didn't blow out my shoulder either.
2. Best Lube on the expander was graphite or mica....take your pick. I settled on mica.....less messy, and it worked fine. Just dip and size.
3. I worried about that expander pulling it out of concentricity. So I experimented. Ended up doing what Bushmaster-1 talked about: "90/180 270 rotation lube sizing method". After testing the first dozen that way, concentricity was zero to 2 thousandths.....most were 1 thous. or zero...3 were 2 thous. (this again was several years ago)
4. I swaged with a bench swager and Trim Mate. Careful to check bottoms after swaging for shearing rather than swaging. Had that happen many years ago using some '67 LC brass. The older harder it gets the more likely a swage can shear a ring into the bottom rather that push it back into the case rim. Such a ring of brass in the bottom of the primer cup can cause proud primers and slam fires.....ask me how I know that!
5. I tested swage quality with the button of an old RCBS press swager. (Got that idea years ago from jmorris, I believe)
After that loading was normal and easy. Better.....the next loading will be simple. The hard work is done.

mdi said:

I only reload for a Criterion barreled Garand. I have used mostly military brass, foreign and domestic, and never needed a small base die. Perhaps because I didn't know I needed one (?), I started with my Lee dies. Every round chambered quite well...

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I'm not surprised.

I have several Garands including a couple CMP Special grades with the Criterion barrel, and I have not any issues resizing cases fired in my Garands or once fired cases from other Garands fired in a Service Rifle matchs. I was using a standard resizing die.

The time was when ranges had surplus 30-06 ammunition provided by CMP for use in loaner M1 Garands during a Service Rifle match. Also, when a competitor received his own Garand, the range I shot at would give him a 50 cal ammo can filled with once fired 30-06 cases. So between, those cases and the surplus 30-06 ammunition I have purchased, I've had no need to scrounge for once fired cases from unknown sources.

My only guns chambered in 30-06 are Garands and a couple '03 Springfields.

For me, all this occurred before small base dies were a thing. As I remember, the small base dies trickled into 223 Rem/5.56 NATO guns first before spreading to other semi-auto guns.

troy fairweather said:

Lee used to say all there dies are small base. 2-4 thou seems to be what the sb dies are. I was going to order the rcbs 6mms arc sb die but see guys are having problems. Looks to be the die is sizing a bit much, enuff that it is making the brass look like belted magnums.

Click to expand...

I would buy that, most dies don’t require me to bottom them out on the shell holder, in order for them to pass a case gauge or bump back the shoulder adequately. Being tapered below the shoulder, any lower movement of the die will “under size” the body, if you ran them down to contact.

frogfurr said:

This is getting a little complicated. If I purchase once fired Lake City brass due to it's reputation for longer brass life I will then have to buy a small base die and shorten the brass life of the Lake City brass? Wouldn't I be better off staying away from the military brass altogether?

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Although there is a good bit of information here about sizing brass, etc, for semi-autos... I have a different reason to avoid once-fired military brass: Catastrophic failure.

Right after I bought my M1a, I also sourced 2 separate lots of 1000 'processed, once-fired' military brass from one of the major vendors. This was 2008 or so, so the majority of the headstamps were LC 04/5/6/7/8, along with some other stuff (Winchester, old LC, old LC LR, PMJ (PMC) and similar.) 'Processed' means it was sized, cleaned, and had the primer pocket reamed. Concentrating on segregated groups of the LC brass, since it was the largest, I loaded everything up with my standard M-80 equivalent load. And then the cases started failing.

Oddly enough, case head separations, generally caused by case stretch from firing in loose-chamber machine guns, was rarely an issue. What I experienced was complete case head failure... and this on my FIRST firing (or, the second for the case.)









This ALL with the LC brass. Initially, I thought I had it isolated to the LC04 headstamp, but as I tried to work my way through the other date codes, they started failing, too. It's possible it was poor brass quality, but I don't believe so... personally, I believe the brass was contaminated after firing, while being stored awaiting disposition (auction.) I have a number of reasons why I believe this to be the case, I won't bore you with the details.

The cases fractured on firing, blew gas in my face, and blew the bottom of the magazine out, dumping the contents on my feet. If there ever was justification to wear quality shooting glasses... I sure found it.

As far as the other brass... the Winchester brass all failed from either cracked necks, or case body...





The only case head separation I had was with a single piece of PMJ...



...although I found more incipent separations when checking the brass...



Again... all this on the 2nd firing.

At the end of the day, I had to scrap nearly 1700 cases... everything except the bit of PMJ brass. That brass is still in service, on it's 3rd or 4th firing, but I will likely retire it after the next firing, or load it up (after inspection) to fire where it's likely I'll lose my brass... and let it go.

My replacement M1a brass source is currently from factory Prvi ammos. I bought a bunch of it when I got my M1a. As I take my other brass out of service, I put the Prvi into rotation. I have never lost one Prvi case due to a failure or separation.

I also have 2 lots of newer LC brass... one lot from 500 'pulled' cases, and another 500 lot from factory ammos... so NOT once-fired, but virgin brass in one respect or another. Both lots of this ammo have corrosion spots, basically from day 1. Much of it is topical... I worked with another member (on another forum) to wet tumble some of the suspect brass, and it all came out clean, with just some minor specs of etching. Given my track record with LC brass, I HAD to know before I continued on with it. Again, at the end of the day, I'm done with LC brass (in .308.) I'll load these 1000 LC cases for as long as they last, and that will be it.

Edit to add: Case head failures occurred in both my M1a, with the gas valve turned on and off (to try to isolate the problem,) and even in my .308 Savage bolt gun... so it was NOT an issue of the violent M1a action or cycling.

Conclusions: I no longer use anyone's once-fired rifle brass, I only use virgin brass components, or brass from factory ammo fired by me, in most cases. I know there are a thousand examples of people using once-fired brass, range pickups, or whatever, with perfect success... compared to my one example of failure, but it comes down to acceptable risk and what I can do to control that risk for me. YMMV.

The only thing one knows for sure (except for military primer crimps in place) is the brass us used. May be once fired, or or fourth fired...

GW Staar said:

See that's the point.....do you want to make ammo that only runs in one of your guns, then another batch to run in another gun. Or do you want to hire a smith to make all your .308's chamber the same? .......Or S.B all the ammo where you can fire it in all of them...... My thought is, 2 thousandths sizing there above the shell holder/plate, is not nearly as detrimental to your brass, as what happens in the neck.....every time it's sized and every time it's fired.....that's where brass failure will occur first. That said, the RCBS AR dies I'm using DO push the shoulder down a thousandth more than my conventional die also..... Would rather they didn't, and don't really understand why RCBS thinks they need to size a little more there, but they do.

One was curious why I wouldn't bother to fix the Federal I had......

Well mostly because I hadn't bought that much Federal .308. The rifle was new.... Other calibers especially .243 for another Remington. I have bought a lot of Federal and have reloaded it a lot also. But on the AR-10 clone just the one box.....not on purpose....just what I found on that day at the store I was at......no prejudice involved...bought one box of Remington too......just shock when only the Federal wouldn't chamber the second round. I let the slide go...the first round slammed in chamber....fired....and the next round did not autochamber.....over and over repeat....the same place, near the base, location detected, with magic marker vertical stripe trick. I did disassemble and reload it with the S.B. die and it worked the way it should have.....this all happened years ago....Obama November! Maybe that was it.

Click to expand...

I wasn't aware manufacturers were making AR specific Dies at all ?. Only caliber specific has been the norm since their conception .

IT ISN'T necessary to have to use SB dies period ,was MY point . Regular Dies setup properly will resize your brass enough to function in a chamber . IF they DON'T Have your chamber checked or slug it ,sometimes failure to chamber can be caused by rim fragment , as gas extractors can be brutal when improper power is used or gas system is maladjusted

AJC1 : Brought up the minimal brass movement camp and I must agree , this is WHY I measure each rifles chamber ,so I KNOW what must be done in order to have reloaded functional ammo . I could make them all small but that allows case stretch and dangerous things happen ,when one reloads multiple times with same brass . So I as Many are in the Minimal Brass movement camp .

IF one Never measures ,One never knows exactly what needs doing . Factory ammo is ALWAYS UNDER SAAMI Minimum ,so as to reliably function in which ever chamber ,caliber specific . There would be DEEP DOO DOO if a PH in Africa wasn't able to chamber a cartridge do to a sizing question or ammo didn't fit Mil Spec .

FYI : I've had less than #5 split necks over #11 Rifle calibers including Belted Magnums and I've been pulling the handle 55 + years . Factor in I've used minimum 80% used brass cartridges ,including 75 year old .30Cal 1942- 56 in M1's . An I'm no better loader than anyone else , I just pay attention to measurements .

I've had # 3 case head separations ,including #1 belted magnum . # 5 Primer failures ,#3 of which were cci pistol primers same batch one OLD WWl mercuric primer ( testing ) and #1 Small rifle primer in an AR . Firing pin hit it repeatedly because I cycled it #3 times and it failed to ignite . So all things considered and # of years ,that's NOT too bad . I've screwed up some shotshells ,dribble shot bad crimping but Never had a failure to ignite and honestly ,I loaded well over 250K back in the days . I currently have 2750 lb. of various shot . I counted stacked and moved them #5 years ago June !.

Still got #8 fingers #2 thumbs both ears and eyes ,so something must be right .

cfullgraf said:

I'm not surprised.

I have several Garands including a couple CMP Special grades with the Criterion barrel, and I have not any issues resizing cases fired in my Garands or once fired cases from other Garands fired in a Service Rifle matchs. I was using a standard resizing die.

The time was when ranges had surplus 30-06 ammunition provided by CMP for use in loaner M1 Garands during a Service Rifle match. Also, when a competitor received his own Garand, the range I shot at would give him a 50 cal ammo can filled with once fired 30-06 cases. So between, those cases and the surplus 30-06 ammunition I have purchased, I've had no need to scrounge for once fired cases from unknown sources.

My only guns chambered in 30-06 are Garands and a couple '03 Springfields.

For me, all this occurred before small base dies were a thing. As I remember, the small base dies trickled into 223 Rem/5.56 NATO guns first before spreading to other semi-auto guns.

Click to expand...

You as I and I've had ZERO problems with running any regular Die resized surplus brass and I'm using 1942-56 .30 Cal Military Base Range surplus pickup . My M14's are using 1953- 2016 LC cases without problem and I'm on the #18 Th. firing on some of those 42 & 44 vintage ammo . I simply shoot sane reloads and purposely avoid Proofing the chambers and bending Opt rods . I leave that for the youngsters

BushMaster-15 said:

I wasn't aware manufacturers were making AR specific Dies at all ?. Only caliber specific has been the norm since their conception .

IT ISN'T necessary to have to use SB dies period ,was MY point . Regular Dies setup properly will resize your brass enough to function in a chamber . IF they DON'T Have your chamber checked or slug it ,sometimes failure to chamber can be caused by rim fragment , as gas extractors can be brutal when improper power is used or gas system is maladjusted

Click to expand...

I see......so my brand new Remington AR-10 wouldn't chamber because of a "rim fragment" from brand new factory Federals. Yet it fired a whole box of Remington factory as fast as I could pull the trigger. Glad you figured that out.........and RCBS and Dillon and Redding are stupid for even thinking about making small base rifles dies for AR's. They shoulda come to you, to show them why SB dies are unnecessay trash.

I concede to your experience with the old technology, as I've never bought or shot an A-1, A-1A, F-14 or anything like them .....well except for a mini-14.

But I do have one question. When army's come together like for example, Russia and Ukraine, (or anything resembling war) when do they have time to stop and measure each rifle to make dependable ammo for them? They don't. They use only dependable factory.....with small bases that chamber easily in every last one of them, unless they have been run over by a tank.

It's my opinion that such dependability is more important than getting 5 more reloads out of a piece of brass by insisting in "minimal brass movement."

If you want a stash of ammo for defense.....that's dependable in ANY rifle in a caliber......either use new factory or small base reloads.....the next best thing. Why are they the next best thing? Because they mimic the easy chambering of factory with bases which are closest to factory diameter.

You are not the only one who's reloaded for 50 + years....I have all my fingers and toes too.

Counting toes here.... (`got to 7 before trying to remember breakfast)

That said, an SB die is useful/called-for when first resizing pick-up and/or military brass -- especially if the OP is using it in any type of Garand-based action.
Once SB-resized, though, normal dies 'should' suffice thereafter if fire in the same chamber.

GW Staar said:

I see......so my brand new Remington AR-10 wouldn't chamber because of a "rim fragment" from brand new factory Federals. Yet it fired a whole box of Remington factory as fast as I could pull the trigger. Glad you figured that out.........and RCBS and Dillon and Redding are stupid for even thinking about making small base rifles dies for AR's. They shoulda come to you, to show them why SB dies are unnecessay trash.

I concede to your experience with the old technology, as I've never bought or shot an A-1, A-1A, F-14 or anything like them .....well except for a mini-14.

But I do have one question. When army's come together like for example, Russia and Ukraine, (or anything resembling war) when do they have time to stop and measure each rifle to make dependable ammo for them? They don't. They use only dependable factory.....with small bases that chamber easily in every last one of them, unless they have been run over by a tank.

It's my opinion that such dependability is more important than getting 5 more reloads out of a piece of brass by insisting in "minimal brass movement."

If you want a stash of ammo for defense.....that's dependable in ANY rifle in a caliber......either use new factory or small base reloads.....the next best thing. Why are they the next best thing? Because they mimic the easy chambering of factory with bases which are closest to factory diameter.

You are not the only one who's reloaded for 50 + years....I have all my fingers and toes too.

Click to expand...

Have another cup of coffee and chill. We don't need drama. Ones persons experience may be different, and we're not on the battle field.