Expansion Industries Primer Plant

Zahn said:
When the news broke a few months ago, I did a bit of research. It seems that plant was designated 'surplus' and abandoned by the government. That tells me the equipment is worn out. It's also sat idle for quite a while, so anything that worked has been removed, such as forklifts or other equipment that isn't specifically related to making ammunition. Frankly, if I was starting a new business, buying another company's worn out equipment is not the first thing I would do.

I have wondered about the $100 million figure, and I still think that is what the US Government invested originally.
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My take also was the $100M was what spent by someone else previously.
FYI. Here's google maps satellite pic of their site. https://www.google.com/maps/place/E...787f0b62fbb9fb!8m2!3d33.4495484!4d-94.2469889
 
I emailed an online vendor that advertises Expansion Industries primers.
They are said they toured the facility and expect there won't be any primers until the Spring of 2023.
I contacted the vendor after receiving an email from Lucas Smissen in mid August. He was replying to an email inquiry from me. In his email, he said they were going live on their website in the next 30-60 days with primers.

Also, in what I've seen, Expansion is using the existing buildings but different equipment.
 
jelenko said:
I emailed an online vendor that advertises Expansion Industries primers.
They are said they toured the facility and expect there won't be any primers until the Spring of 2023.
I contacted the vendor after receiving an email from Lucas Smissen in mid August. He was replying to an email inquiry from me. In his email, he said they were going live on their website in the next 30-60 days with primers.

Also, in what I've seen, Expansion is using the existing buildings but different equipment.
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Hmmm. So this “online vendor” says next spring but good ole Lucas says 2-3 months. And several posts above we have a buddy performing earth moving on site. I’m calling it all bogus. Nothing personal.

what’s name of online vendor? I haven’t seen anyone advertise for expansion primers—including expansion themselves.
 
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GeoDudeFlorida said:
Okay, let’s go there to get some perspective. Intel is a multi-billion dollar corporation. They have the full support of the Federal, State and Local governments. Congress passed a spending bill to pay for a large chunk of the project and waive environmental regulations. The labor unions are paying skilled and unskilled union members to move to the project site. That’s a pretty big chunk of support - I’m almost tempted to call it an uprising - and it still has been stalled by a lack of labor. It might be finished by 2025 if the contractors show up, housing gets built and the EPA doesn’t shut the site down for light metals pollution after the waiver expires. Those forward thinking businessmen have more support than the drug companies did developing covid vaccines and they are getting billions in federal money to pay for it.
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Well said, but one nit. Please stop saying “federal money” as though it falls like manna from above…it’s my money (and yours).
 
Zahn said:
When the news broke a few months ago, I did a bit of research. It seems that plant was designated 'surplus' and abandoned by the government. That tells me the equipment is worn out. It's also sat idle for quite a while, so anything that worked has been removed, such as forklifts or other equipment that isn't specifically related to making ammunition. Frankly, if I was starting a new business, buying another company's worn out equipment is not the first thing I would do.

I have wondered about the $100 million figure, and I still think that is what the US Government invested originally.
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Yes plant shut down and apparently Texas or locals inherited it as happens with many base closures. I’ve seen no verifiable (nor unverifiable) information that any equipment was left behind. But they left everything behind in Afghanistan so why not?

The government may or may not have invested $100 million (they seldom spend less) but Smissen told the press that’s what they had already or were planning to invest.
 
CQB45ACP said:
Hmmm. So this “online vendor” says next spring but good ole Lucas says 2-3 months. And several posts above we have a buddy performing earth moving on site. I’m calling it all bogus. Nothing personal.

what’s name of online vendor? I haven’t seen anyone advertise for expansion primers—including expansion themselves.
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Lucas said 30-60 days - 1-2 months, not 2-3.
You can find the vendor if you do a google search 'expansion industries primers'. Because the person at the vendor replied to my email and because they are relying on getting primers from Expansion [I'm guessing they provided some funding], I'm uncomfortable naming them in an open forum.
All that said, I'm not convinced what they are up to. As mentioned, the Smissen's business background doesn't appear to support getting a $100M funding. The on going promise that primers are 'just around the corner' is typical of a scam. But, they appear to be occupying the site they said.
I'm watching the situation because it would be neat if primer capacity did come on line but I'm not planning to put out any cash to hold my place in line.
 
jelenko said:
Lucas said 30-60 days - 1-2 months, not 2-3.
You can find the vendor if you do a google search 'expansion industries primers'. Because the person at the vendor replied to my email and because they are relying on getting primers from Expansion [I'm guessing they provided some funding], I'm uncomfortable naming them in an open forum.
All that said, I'm not convinced what they are up to. As mentioned, the Smissen's business background doesn't appear to support getting a $100M funding. The on going promise that primers are 'just around the corner' is typical of a scam. But, they appear to be occupying the site they said.
I'm watching the situation because it would be neat if primer capacity did come on line but I'm not planning to put out any cash to hold my place in line.
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Bad math

I’ve done more searches for this bogus story than I care to admit, but must be “dual wield supply”. They look sketchy too:)
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
You beat me to it. Congress passed the semiconductor industry support bill giving trillions of dollars - directly and in-kind, combined - to build those plants. Including billions to Chinese firms to compete on US Soil. I guess I was wrong about there not being an uprising.
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Congress passed, right AFTER Pukelosi hubs bought up massive blocks of stock shares!


Nothing to see here, nevermind.
 
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Seedy Character said:
Congresses passed, right AFTER Pukelosi hubs bought up massive blocks of stock shares!


Nothing to see here, nevermind.
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You know, since my early adulthood I’ve been an ultra free marketeer, or so I thought. Milton & Rose Friedman’s Free to Choose should be required reading in high school. (And if I weren’t a Christian believer, maybe Ayn Rand too.)

But now, while I think there are better ways to try it, I agree completely with attempting to on-shore a great deal of what we’ve off-shored over the past many decades. And I’m not just thinking of China.

Neither trying to plan the economy nor ladling out my tax dollars is the way to do it, but some incentivization is possible without also enriching the politburo.
 
GeoDudeFlorida said:
Okay, let’s go there to get some perspective. Intel is a multi-billion dollar corporation. They have the full support of the Federal, State and Local governments. Congress passed a spending bill to pay for a large chunk of the project and waive environmental regulations. The labor unions are paying skilled and unskilled union members to move to the project site. That’s a pretty big chunk of support - I’m almost tempted to call it an uprising - and it still has been stalled by a lack of labor. It might be finished by 2025 if the contractors show up, housing gets built and the EPA doesn’t shut the site down for light metals pollution after the waiver expires. Those forward thinking businessmen have more support than the drug companies did developing covid vaccines and they are getting billions in federal money to pay for it.
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Nice response....totally ignoring the fact that these plants were in progress long before the new government throwaways were passed. Taiwan Semi broke ground last year, Intel's new plant was announced in January. Sure...Biteme showed up for the Ohio groundbreaking...but it was a done deal with no federal involvement. Can't speak to the Micron development.
 
Jim Watson said:
Looking at the decline in ammunition prices, one might wonder if primers will follow and that be the case.
It was during the previous politically driven hoarding/shortages.
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There's a good chance this will happen just like it did last time. Powder and primers were hard to find 2013-2016 and then in 2018 you could get them on sale and with rebates. By the time Expansion Industries get's there stuff together the prices could bottom out again. Not to get political, but if a Republican president makes it into office in 2024, the prices on everything gun related will plummet again. Spending $100 million and then having your business model ride on the whims of politicians is not a good position to be in.

Every shooter I knew had a huge hoard and stockpile of .22 LR by the end of 2016 and didn't plan on buying more for years. What does a company do when all the customers are sitting on a 5 year supply of your product?
 
There are no doubt many sitting on a stockpile of 22LR, but there are also many, or perhaps even more, buying 22LR right now. Otherwise the price would be less than $.08 to $.10 per round.

Much the same situation with primers. But the good news there is the large quantities of ammo now available. That tells me there are less primers being used to load commercial ammo and there will soon be even more available to reloaders.
 
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CQB45ACP said:
Starting and maintaining a business can be tough no doubt but Vista is a publicly traded company and has a responsibility to it’s shareholders not someone else’s business.

Expecting Vista to enter into a contract and tie up funds for some possible, maybe, future, could be, doesn’t seem to be in their shareholders interest. Now you can add any sort of ulterior motive you want (and it may be true) but it’s only bidness.
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" Expecting Vista to enter into a contract and tie up funds for some possible,"

Wait a minute partner WHO was tying up funds ? . We were dealing in Letter of credit to the tune of several millions of $'s with prepayment of 35% ,Net 90 days . So Vista was out NOTHING ,they simply DON'T want competition . Kind of like Big box stores ,you undercut everyone until they FAIL ,then you RAISE price and have captured audiences . Sound familiar !.
 
BBarn said:
There are no doubt many sitting on a stockpile of 22LR, but there are also many, or perhaps even more, buying 22LR right now. Otherwise the price would be less than $.08 to $.10 per round.
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Where have you been?

We have been below $0.08/round shipped since April - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...t-shipped-pricing.902560/page-3#post-12277076

And currently we are looking to break below $0.06/round shipped - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...t-shipped-pricing.902560/page-9#post-12405553

I am actually anticipating a drop below $30/500 shipped before I consider restocking big for my retirement (Technically we are already there with $29.49/500 and free shipping but that's for tracer rounds and I want to stock up on CCI Blazer/Aguila 40 gr CPRN ... Ammo that produced 0.5" groups at 50 yards and 1.25" groups at 100 yards out of my 10/22 with factory barrel).

How low will we go? Time will tell, just like past several shortages.
 
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BBarn said:
There are no doubt many sitting on a stockpile of 22LR, but there are also many, or perhaps even more, buying 22LR right now. Otherwise the price would be less than $.08 to $.10 per round.

Much the same situation with primers. But the good news there is the large quantities of ammo now available. That tells me there are less primers being used to load commercial ammo and there will soon be even more available to reloaders.
Click to expand...


Possibly but also be mindful prices RARELY ever come down , especially during a recession with inflation hitting a 60 year high .

NO where I've been have I seen any evidence of prices coming down . Fuel cost is strictly a political gimmick ,as is threatening to forgive all student debt . Same turds are behind the curtain ruining OUR Country and being paid by Xi !. How else would China be able to purchase land adjacent to USA Military bases :fire:
 
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