Titegroup or Clays...?
- Thread starter Bill M.
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Charlie98
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Clays... although I'll say I don't have any experience with it directly. I guess my answer really is: Anything but TiteGroup. TiteGroup has a high nitro content, so it runs very hot.
Looking at the burn rate chart, Clays is right around RedDot... and I've used RedDot for .45 Colt target loads, it worked quite well, I don't see why Clays wouldn't, too. I've also run TiteGroup in .45 Colt loads... after 50 rounds, the pistol was so hot I could hardly hold it to punch out the empties.
I've been loading .41MAG for over 30 years... I don't go any slower than Unique.
Looking at the burn rate chart, Clays is right around RedDot... and I've used RedDot for .45 Colt target loads, it worked quite well, I don't see why Clays wouldn't, too. I've also run TiteGroup in .45 Colt loads... after 50 rounds, the pistol was so hot I could hardly hold it to punch out the empties.
I've been loading .41MAG for over 30 years... I don't go any slower than Unique.
Crunchy Frog
Member
I’m with Charlie. I’m a cowboy action shooter. Most of us favor fast burning pistol powders to push lead bullets to “legal” velocities (1000 FPS is the pistol limit, with 700-800 being a good velocity range for quick shooting. I definitely find Titegroup to give a snappier recoil and a sharper report than other powders of similar burn rate. I don’t notice the difference as much in an autopistol.
We pick up each shooter’s spent brass and that high heat level really shows.
AJC1
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Clays is a single base and one of the very few left in the game. As Charlie mentioned it will run much cooler.
tightgroup tiger
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I get that with every powder I use after 50 rounds without stopping, but yes, Titegroup will heat the gun up faster than a lot of other powders will. No doubt about that.
Completely agree even for light loads with lead bullets, coated or other wise.
I just don't like all that air space with just a little powder laying on bottom of case. To me it's bad Ju Ju.
I'm old enough I still remember all the hype about Bullseye blowing up cylinders in 45 colt revolvers in the 70's because of that very thing, they blamed it on detonation upwards, instead of deflagration forwards, whether that was the real reason or not.
That's what the gun rags were saying anyways, and they were our only source of potential problems we had at that time, other than direct experience.
So I wasn't going to find out for myself, right or wrong, and just stuck with that all these years.
Barbaroja
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I’ve loaded 215gn cast in 41 mag with clays before. Very light target load, accurate and fun to shoot. If I recall I was using 4.5gn of clays (right around there, don’t take my word for it though be sure to crack a book first).
That was back when the 41 was my only revolver, so I would experiment with different stuff especially as it was also my first revolver and the target loads really helped me learn to shoot a single action well.
That was back when the 41 was my only revolver, so I would experiment with different stuff especially as it was also my first revolver and the target loads really helped me learn to shoot a single action well.
J-Bar
Member
Titegroup performs its intended task well; it produces accurate, small groups with light loads in big cases. Titegroup consistently gave me the smallest groups in cowboy action level loads (mouse farts) compared to other powders.
The best way to answer your question is to run both powders through your gun and prove to yourself which one works best. Experimentation beats anecdotes every time.
The best way to answer your question is to run both powders through your gun and prove to yourself which one works best. Experimentation beats anecdotes every time.
tightgroup tiger
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I've just always been afraid to load that light in those big cases, so I never experimented with it. I probably missed out on some good things because of it.
Charlie98
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I got stuck with 2#'s of it from the last Shortage... it has it's place. I've found the best place... for me... is burning it up in 9mm, where the small charge/small case/light bullet formula seems to work best. It does seem to last forever, much to my dismay... I really want it gone and away, but in these days of waste not, whatnot...
Shooting it in a single-action Ruger... it wasn't like I was at the OK corral, just recreational target shooting. I do agree with you, however, about the tiny charge/big case combo. I understand detonation is hard to prove, particularly after the fact... but why invite it. That is also one of the reasons I don't like small charges of handgun powders in big rifle cases (think .Unique in the .45-70, etc, etc...) It's been done a zillion times, and I've even done it meself a time or two... and with good results... but it only takes that one time.
Barbaroja
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Im also not of fan of a bunch of empty space in a cartridge and do avoid it these days but like I said it was my only revolver at the time and was trying all kinds of combinations.
My standard load now is 8.0gn of unique. I’ve also had great results with the same charge of Universal, just got a chono last week so I’m not sure of actual velocities on these but I know they are accurate and hit hard enough to do what I need done.
tightgroup tiger
Member
Ok, I know I shoot to fast most of the time but I also shoot defensively, not for bullseye in most cases. That probably accounts for a lot of my barrel heat.
Charlie98
Member
After years and years of loading 9grn Unique, under a 215grn cast, I've actually dropped down to 8grns as my standard load. The paper or steel plate can't tell the difference, but my hand can after 200 rounds or so.
Most of the time that's what I'm doing, too... but not with a single-action. In fact, after having that pistol over 20 years, I just moved it down the road... I really prefer DA revolvers, or semi-autos over a single-action. My S&W 58 took the place of that ole' .45 Ruger.
Barbaroja
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i shot one lengthwise through the cow in my avatar photo, broke the pelvis I believe it exited if not it was in the back few inches of her.
J-Bar
Member
IMO, there are better choices for heavy handgun loads than Titegroup or Clays. The OP specified a powder for perforating paper.
I got caught. I was using Trail Boss for my light coated bullet oads. I did not keep stocked up and I have run out. So I am looking for about 800-850 fps. I do not have any Unique. I have shot a couple of hundred of the Clays loads and they seem okay. I have HP38 but the Hodgdon site does not seem to list a cast bullet load for it. Hodgdon claims Tightgroup is made for light loads in big cases. Thought I would ask about it. It is one of the powders that can be bought now. I have a fair quantity of Clays since I load it in 12 gauge. I just do not shoot many jacketed bullets in this gun. Both because of recoil and expense. I have a sorta coarse ghost site with a big round bead on the gun and mainly bang paper at 10 yards or so with it. I have a Lil gun load with Hornady XTP that is very accurate but not often used. My Blue Dot loads were great also but alas, I can not use them any more.
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AJC1
Member
Have you looked for vv tin star. It's made for exactly the same purpose as TB. I've never seen it on the shelf if I do ill grab some.
https://www.vihtavuori.com/powder/n32c-tin-star/
Charlie98
Member
I have data for W231/HP38 (same powder) for .45 Colt. PM me and I'll let you have what I've got.
I understand you are trying to use what you can, and what you can get... many of us are faced with that right now.
P Flados
Member
Any of the fast burning stuff should work for punching paper. You have clays and I really do not think anything will do better than what you have.
I have used a similar powder (Promo) for thousands of light loads in magnum pistol rounds. I use Titegroup also, but prefer the flake powder for most applicactions.
I have used a similar powder (Promo) for thousands of light loads in magnum pistol rounds. I use Titegroup also, but prefer the flake powder for most applicactions.
I have to agree with this also.
Clays is just a more versatile powder than Titegroup, has a wider operating window, runs cooler, and is cleaner. I've used both. I sold the rest of an 8lb jug of Titegroup that I started with after loading a few hundred rounds. Clays is my go to powder for revolvers for competition
I bought a pound of Titegroup at the end of the last decade and the load recommendations for 38 Special wadcutters caused all sorts of issues in my firearms.
Never again.
From my experience, Titegroup will never have a place in my reliading room.
Never again.
From my experience, Titegroup will never have a place in my reliading room.
Hooda Thunkit
Member
I have a 4lb jug of Titegroup. Unopened.
When next I see a large jug of Clays, I will own it. I have been using up a pound of Clays for a year or so; it works very well in light handgun loads, as well as very light rifle (90 grain Lee swc in a 30-30, for instance).
Given the choice of the two powders, and the stated objective, I would definitely go with Clays. Every time.
When next I see a large jug of Clays, I will own it. I have been using up a pound of Clays for a year or so; it works very well in light handgun loads, as well as very light rifle (90 grain Lee swc in a 30-30, for instance).
Given the choice of the two powders, and the stated objective, I would definitely go with Clays. Every time.
lordpaxman
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Ditto.
I have found Clays has a milder felt recoil than TG, however in a LNL measure it didn’t meter as well as TG.
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