I give up!

Hooda Thunkit said:

sometimes I even eek! some info ... from the majority of your data posts.

Some I need to digest a bit, because of the sheer amount of info.

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You could never have too much measurable, repeatable data.

jmorris, Bart B. and fxvr5 would say my "sample size" is not big enough and I need to do more testing.

As to sample size, after testing over 40,000 rounds of almost 30 brands/weights/lots of 22LR, I am beginning to realize the "flyers" I blamed on other shooting variables may actually be shooter input on trigger and need a "mechanical remote trigger" (Yeah, my wife tells me I am "slow" and jmorris did mention it). https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...22lr-on-the-cheap.898035/page-2#post-12176610

Try them all, one is bound to outshine the rest.

LiveLife said:

You could never have too much measurable, repeatable data.

jmorris, Bart B. and fxvr5 would say my "sample size" is not big enough and I need to do more testing.

As to sample size, after testing over 40,000 rounds of almost 30 brands/weights/lots of 22LR, I am beginning to realize the "flyers" I blamed on other shooting variables may actually be shooter input on trigger and need a "mechanical remote trigger" (Yeah, my wife tells me I am "slow" and jmorris did mention it). https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...22lr-on-the-cheap.898035/page-2#post-12176610

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Minor quibble: "data" is a single point of interest. When you collate and associate data points, they become "information." "Blue," "35," "7.62x10^64" are all data - meaningless without context. When you apply context, then and only then does "data" become meaningful.

Sorry. Engineering graduate. I write code now which isn't engineering or science. More like Black Magic. Carry On.

CQB45ACP said:

I go by pure subjectivity—how my hands feel and how I hit the target and other things that help me but aren’t meaningful to others. I load only 9mm & 45ACP and shoot overwhelmingly 1911s.

For both 9mm & 45ACP, I like W231 & Bullseye equally, BE-86 very close behind, then AA 2 & 5. My notes say AA7 is good but I honestly can’t remember it other than dirty if not a max load.

Sport Pistol brings up the rear (way rear. in fact I have four pounds I’d love to swap for some unique which I’ve never used).

These are the only powders I bought before the shortages and the only ones I’ve ever used.

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I'm still wondering how objectively different my life would be if I had listened to David Bowie instead of Johnny Cash as a teenager.

Make it Johnny Winter.

If I'm shooting budget .22 LR for score....I like the old CCI SV in the plastic box for pistol (it isn't the same in the paper box no matter what they say). For rifle, Federal 711B or Wolf.

Tenex is way out of my budget.

LiveLife said:

You could never have too much measurable, repeatable data.

jmorris, Bart B. and fxvr5 would say my "sample size" is not big enough and I need to do more testing.

As to sample size, after testing over 40,000 rounds of almost 30 brands/weights/lots of 22LR, I am beginning to realize the "flyers" I blamed on other shooting variables may actually be shooter input on trigger and need a "mechanical remote trigger" (Yeah, my wife tells me I am "slow" and jmorris did mention it). https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...22lr-on-the-cheap.898035/page-2#post-12176610

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Spoken like a true analyst

Decision makers however know information overload is paralyzing.

Russ57 said:

Make it Johnny Winter.

If I'm shooting budget .22 LR for score....I like the old CCI SV in the plastic box for pistol (it isn't the same in the paper box no matter what they say). For rifle, Federal 711B or Wolf.

Tenex is way out of my budget.

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Now you’re talking.

Saw Johnny Winter at the Laurel (MD) pop festival a month or so before Woodstock along with zeppelin, jethro Tull, and others whom I don’t recall. When I asked if I could go to Woodstock, my dad gave me one of those over-the-glasses looks requiring no audible answer.

GeoDudeFlorida said:

I'm still wondering how objectively different my life would be if I had listened to David Bowie instead of Johnny Cash as a teenager.

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Can’t help you on either. Only later in life have I come to appreciate Johnny Cash. Never have warmed up to Bowie.

Zeppelin was my first concert. Didn't get to see Johnny until much later. Always regretted never getting to see the Doors and Hendrix.

A lot of good music from that time. Also liked stuff like Joni Mitchell and CSN&Y.

Well, not to rain on anyone's parade, but, I'd like to believe most, if not all here, have handloaded with enough different handguns, rifles, powder, bullets and primers over the years, that, agian, most already KNOW what works in what. Experiminting is fine and sometimes fun. But, I really believe we already know what loads we prefer. Just my take.

True, but these days you can't always get your old favorite.

I'm certainly using different primers and cast bullets these days.

Given that I generally buy in quantity I'd rather buy something new that comes recommended by the folks here.

Russ57 said:

Zeppelin was my first concert. Didn't get to see Johnny until much later. Always regretted never getting to see the Doors and Hendrix.

A lot of good music from that time. Also liked stuff like Joni Mitchell and CSN&Y.

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Hendrix was my first concert at Washington Hilton where Pres Reagan was shot. Probably’68? It was a really small venue so early in his brief career.

Two places here had major acts start and/or drop by when in town so we saw a ton of acts. One is still in business (Birchmere) and I saw Ronstadt, Eagles, Mitchell, Crosby and Stills but without Nash and young. Big stars still drop by but I’m too old to care.

Back in those days only the Beatles and Stones could fill a stadium on their own.

If you haven’t seen it, watch documentary Laurel Canyon. It’s an amazing story of the beginnings of the early rock days.

wgf said:

Here are the two loads I I just tried. I think these guns like 5.9 W231 over 5.8 Bullseye. 12 shot groups at 10 yards, fired two handed.
View attachment 1105565
Pietta 1873
Rock Island 1911
Glock 30 Gen 5
View attachment 1105566

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What bullet? I shoot both powders in 1911s and those are some very top end loads for both powders.

.45Coltguy said:

Well, not to rain on anyone's parade, but, I'd like to believe most, if not all here, have handloaded with enough different handguns, rifles, powder, bullets and primers over the years, that, agian, most already KNOW what works in what. Experiminting is fine and sometimes fun. But, I really believe we already know what loads we prefer. Just my take.

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Well, I can’t speak for anyone else but I do still get surprised by something new. Ramshot Competition being the most recent. I’m hoping to get happily surprised by Winchester Autocomp in .32H&R. Competition is now my goto .40S&W powder. It can happen.

wgf said:

Live Life sure came up with some objective data. Thank you.

45ACP ... Hornady 185JHP

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Here's more data of 15 shot groups at 25 yards with Ransom Rest - https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/loads-for-the-bullseye-shooter/99418

• Zero 185 gr JHP W231 1.200" 5.0 gr (709 fps) 1.28" CCI 300
• Zero 185 gr JHP W231 1.200" 5.0 gr (752 fps) 1.46" WLP
• Zero 185 gr JHP W231 1.200" 5.3 gr (771 fps) 1.22" WLP
• Zero 185 gr JHP W231 1.200" 5.6 gr (822 fps) 1.74" WLP
• Hornady 185 gr XTP W231 1.240" 5.6 gr (801 fps) 1.35" WLP
• Sierra 185 gr JHP W231 1.200" 5.6 gr (824 fps) 1.86" WLP
• Zero 185 gr JHP Bullseye 1.200" 4.0 gr (697 fps) 1.57" WLP
• Zero 185 gr JHP Bullseye 1.200" 4.3 gr (735 fps) 2.00" WLP
• Zero 185 gr JHP Bullseye 1.200" 4.6 gr (785 fps) 1.86" WLP
• Zero 185 gr JHP Bullseye 1.200" 4.9 gr (826 fps) 1.55" WLP
• Zero 185 gr JHP Titegroup 1.200" 4.2 gr (708 fps) 1.77" Federal 150M
• Zero 185 gr JHP Titegroup 1.200" 4.6 gr (789 fps) 1.44" Federal 150M
• Zero 185 gr JHP Titegroup 1.200" 5.0 gr (837 fps) 1.71" Federal 150M

My two bits, you are likely correct they are all so close.

I think this is one area where "brand loyalty" is really something. Shooters are (at leas in my view) slow to move off something once they hit on something that "works" for their needs. When going off into a new area they are more likely to stick with that same brand over another untried brand.

I highly doubt there are any "bad" offerings out there. There may be QC slipups here and there, or one company may do something a tick different from the other, but at the end of the day they are all on par with the next guy.

I really look at is like a Ford vs. Chevy kind of thing, with a tick of hard core Mopar guys over there, as well as those die hards that just love the stuff from Europe (VV powder).

But in the end, unless you are shopping for a very specific need and have a tight group (not shooting group) of specs you are looking for, here there same same.

Story time:

I am loading for my trapdoor, I am going to use smokeless as I am just not there yet for smoky powders. Everything I read says keep the pressures in the mid teens and you will be fine. So I am looking for a good powder that will send my 405 grain freedom seed at roughly 900fps. In trying to find all this info cold is a bit hard, but finally came across a VV powder that had pressures listed at 14k, and was to give 900-ish speeds, this was better then any of the other "normal" offerings.

So I ordered up a pound, paid about as much in shipping as I did for the product after all the fees, and ended up using that as my "go to" powder for the old trapdoor. Would I change, doubt it, will I dig through specs to see if anything is "better", doubt it. Might I be like the OP and just come across something and go hmmm, these look a lot alike, yea could happen.

.45Coltguy said:

Well, not to rain on anyone's parade, but, I'd like to believe most, if not all here, have handloaded with enough different handguns, rifles, powder, bullets and primers over the years, that, agian, most already KNOW what works in what. Experiminting is fine and sometimes fun. But, I really believe we already know what loads we prefer. Just my take.

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I tend to agree. For me, I’m not getting enough range time anymore to “waste” it experimenting to determine how many angels fit on the head of a pin. Twice a month on average at the range. That’s two measly hours. Pre-pandemic it was twice per week. That’s a big difference to one’s hands and overall shooting skills. Or it is to me. And even two hours/week isn’t enough to do much experimenting.

I know, that’s blasphemy to some.

Rule3 said:

I can load.shoot most anything I want (handgun) with HP 38

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I've been handloading since 1992, use mostly W231 in all the same cartridges you mentioned. I also have Clays, Unique, VV N350, AA#5 & 7 that I play around with but most of the 45 ACP was with 231.