Max Effectiveness of 7.62 x 39

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Blkhrt13

Blkhrt13

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Much of what I see about statistics on range is from an Ak-47. With a bolt gun like a Ruger American and hand loading can the range be pushed? My purpose is ethical taking of white tail deer. But I would want to get to know the combination effectively enough to feel confident. I did some googling. But I would like to get information from anyone who has real world experience. I don’t have the rifle or dies yet but this is going to be my goal.
 
To me you're asking for trouble, arbitrarily limiting yourself with a marginal cartridge and then looking to push those limits.
Take it from an old man who's taken some shots with questionable ethics and poor results, the added accuracy of a bolt action and good bullets gives you a little better margin of error, keep it.
Stay with a 150-200 yard limit get as good of shooting position as you can and pass on that big buck that won't turn and give you a good shot.
 
Dealing with ' effective range ' is rather subjective. Your idea and mine will probably differ, however using the old axiom of < 1000 ft lbs being not particularly desirable for medium / big game cartridges, the 7.62x39, according to gundata.org is 936 ftlbs at 150 yards with a 123 grn projectile, and 788 ftlb at 200 yds. While this is no where near some other ' usual ' deer cartridges, 243, 7mm08, etc, with careful bullet selections, I wouldn't feel bad about a < 200 yd shot on whitetail giving me that prefect angle. Of course the cartridge would be lethal at a range further than 200 yards, but this is where other decisions need be made in that regard.
 
I experimented with the concept some years ago in 7.62x54r with 123 gr .310 bullets working a deer load with reduced recoil. As I recall, I was pushing them in the 2600 fps range. Accuracy held up to 200 yards. I cannot speak to long range terminal effects on whitetail, but the 2 deer taken at 50-100 yards were anchored well with the Hornady Spire point. That being said, I would greatly prefer a. 308 or flatter shooting round such as. 270 win for your intended role.
 
Thank you everyone for your responses. I think I will wind up with a Ruger American one day. But I will need to add one more caliber eventually. Either 308 or 6.5 creedmore. All my current calibers seem to have these max range.
 
I would keep my shots to 150-175 yards for deer size game. The round does not play well with ranges above 250-300 yards in my experience. I know with my SKS, Wolf ammo, and a good sandbag rest I can keep a 3 -5 inch 5 shot group at 150 yards most days. This is with a bone stock Yugo rifle with iron sights. I think it would get better with a good scope but this rifle is a range toy that I bought cheap.
 
Blkhrt13 said:
Thank you everyone for your responses. I think I will wind up with a Ruger American one day. But I will need to add one more caliber eventually. Either 308 or 6.5 creedmore. All my current calibers seem to have these max range.
Click to expand...

Well hold your horses... I just saw this thread. The 7.62x39 has been much maligned, misunderstood, and underrated, since it started gaining traction in North America in the 1980s. There are about 12 people (12 disciples if you will) in the states that have a deep extensive grasp and experience with all things 7.62x39, and I'm one of them. So this is your lucky day, but might have to be tomorrow because my mom's in the hospital.

Well anyway, Ruger saw the x39 as comparable to 30-30 WIN, but even they sold it short. It's not slightly behind the 30-30 as many people believe but it's at very least equal to or slightly ahead, especially with today's powders.

7.62x39 wasn't intended to be a long range round. It's a decent medium range for medium game round out to 250 yards if you handload, use hot C.I.P. loads, or use hot domestic loads from companies like Corbon.

If you want to be on the safe side keep your shots inside 225 yards. If you can hit your target you will bring your white tail home, and do so ethically.

A couple years ago I had a long talk with a tech at Speer while I was trying to recreate the Corbon 150gr 7.62x39 load, which had a muzzle velocity of 2300 fps from a 20-inch barrel. Previously I'd spoken with Peter Pi Jr. to learn as much as I could about Corbon's offering.

Pete recommended I use the Speer .311 150gr #2217 because it expanded better at range than the similar Sierra bullet Corbon initially used.

After I'd crunched some numbers with the tech at Speer we came up with a 7.62x39 load using the #2217 bullet crammed with Accurate 2200 powder for a velocity of 2300+ from a 20-inch barrel, at the high side but within SAAMI pressure guidelines for x39. He told me with the BC of that bullet, and at that muzzle velocity, that I've got a 250-yard deer gun and a 200 to 225-yard elk gun. I don't hunt elk, but it's nice to know I can.

My Mini-30 sends that Speer 150 bullet from the mid 2270s to high 2290s fps. My CZ 527 bolt gun sends it at 2350+ at the muzzle.

That's just one round I've perfected. I have many more, and there are some great factory loads like Barnaul Silver Bear 125gr SP, which I have full confidence hunting whitetail withing 200 yards

Gundata.org is way outdated as for the factory loads they list. It's a useful tool when handloading.and entering custom data, which is what I use it for.

I load 110gr too 150gr projectiles, between .308 to .311 in diameter for both my Ruger Mini-30 and my CZ 527 in x39. My 22-inch barrel CZ-USA 527 American can reach out and touch someone and some thing a bit better than my Mini-30, but both are excellent deer rifles on par with the best 30-30 Win performance.



.
 
All I'm going to say is 7.62x39 is way more ethical than 32-20 and people out there with 9mm and 40 carbines. My limitation for 357 in a 16" carbine is around 100 yards. That's my choice and at a mv of 1750 I haven't even checked the numbers. There are facts,ethics and personal decisions along with the law. Go afield with what is legal and your willing to take responsibility for.
 
Beck said:
Well hold your horses... I just saw this thread. The 7.62x39 has been much maligned, misunderstood, and underrated, since it started gaining traction in North America in the 1980s. There are about 12 people (12 disciples if you will) in the states that have a deep extensive grasp and experience with all things 7.62x39, and I'm one of them. So this is your lucky day, but might have to be tomorrow because my mom's in the hospital.

Well anyway, Ruger saw the x39 as comparable to 30-30 WIN, but even they sold it short. It's not slightly behind the 30-30 as many people believe but it's at very least equal to or slightly ahead, especially with today's powders.

7.62x39 wasn't intended to be a long range round. It's a decent medium range for medium game round out to 250 yards if you handload, use hot C.I.P. loads, or use hot domestic loads from companies like Corbon.

If you want to be on the safe side keep your shots inside 225 yards. If you can hit your target you will bring your white tail home, and do so ethically.

A couple years ago I had a long talk with a tech at Speer while I was trying to recreate the Corbon 150gr 7.62x39 load, which had a muzzle velocity of 2300 fps from a 20-inch barrel. Previously I'd spoken with Peter Pi Jr. to learn as much as I could about Corbon's offering.

Pete recommended I use the Speer .311 150gr #2217 because it expanded better at range than the similar Sierra bullet Corbon initially used.

After I'd crunched some numbers with the tech at Speer we came up with a 7.62x39 load using the #2217 bullet crammed with Accurate 2200 powder for a velocity of 2300+ from a 20-inch barrel, at the high side but within SAAMI pressure guidelines for x39. He told me with the BC of that bullet, and at that muzzle velocity, that I've got a 250-yard deer gun and a 200 to 225-yard elk gun. I don't hunt elk, but it's nice to know I can.

My Mini-30 sends that Speer 150 bullet from the mid 2270s to high 2290s fps. My CZ 527 bolt gun sends it at 2350+ at the muzzle.

That's just one round I've perfected. I have many more, and there are some great factory loads like Barnaul Silver Bear 125gr SP, which I have full confidence hunting whitetail withing 200 yards

Gundata.org is way outdated as for the factory loads they list. It's a useful tool when handloading.and entering custom data, which is what I use it for.

I load 110gr too 150gr projectiles, between .308 to .311 in diameter for both my Ruger Mini-30 and my CZ 527 in x39. My 22-inch barrel CZ-USA 527 American can reach out and touch someone and some thing a bit better than my Mini-30, but both are excellent deer rifles on par with the best 30-30 Win performance.



.
Click to expand...
To be honest I may not ever reach out much past 250 yards anyway. I believe I would need a rifle range that had that much length and some practice just to shoot that far. I’ve really only played much at about 100 yards because that was the lanes and range I had to practice on.
 
Beck said:
Well hold your horses... I just saw this thread. The 7.62x39 has been much maligned, misunderstood, and underrated, since it started gaining traction in North America in the 1980s. There are about 12 people (12 disciples if you will) in the states that have a deep extensive grasp and experience with all things 7.62x39, and I'm one of them. So this is your lucky day, but might have to be tomorrow because my mom's in the hospital.

Well anyway, Ruger saw the x39 as comparable to 30-30 WIN, but even they sold it short. It's not slightly behind the 30-30 as many people believe but it's at very least equal to or slightly ahead, especially with today's powders.

7.62x39 wasn't intended to be a long range round. It's a decent medium range for medium game round out to 250 yards if you handload, use hot C.I.P. loads, or use hot domestic loads from companies like Corbon.

If you want to be on the safe side keep your shots inside 225 yards. If you can hit your target you will bring your white tail home, and do so ethically.

A couple years ago I had a long talk with a tech at Speer while I was trying to recreate the Corbon 150gr 7.62x39 load, which had a muzzle velocity of 2300 fps from a 20-inch barrel. Previously I'd spoken with Peter Pi Jr. to learn as much as I could about Corbon's offering.

Pete recommended I use the Speer .311 150gr #2217 because it expanded better at range than the similar Sierra bullet Corbon initially used.

After I'd crunched some numbers with the tech at Speer we came up with a 7.62x39 load using the #2217 bullet crammed with Accurate 2200 powder for a velocity of 2300+ from a 20-inch barrel, at the high side but within SAAMI pressure guidelines for x39. He told me with the BC of that bullet, and at that muzzle velocity, that I've got a 250-yard deer gun and a 200 to 225-yard elk gun. I don't hunt elk, but it's nice to know I can.

My Mini-30 sends that Speer 150 bullet from the mid 2270s to high 2290s fps. My CZ 527 bolt gun sends it at 2350+ at the muzzle.

That's just one round I've perfected. I have many more, and there are some great factory loads like Barnaul Silver Bear 125gr SP, which I have full confidence hunting whitetail withing 200 yards

Gundata.org is way outdated as for the factory loads they list. It's a useful tool when handloading.and entering custom data, which is what I use it for.

I load 110gr too 150gr projectiles, between .308 to .311 in diameter for both my Ruger Mini-30 and my CZ 527 in x39. My 22-inch barrel CZ-USA 527 American can reach out and touch someone and some thing a bit better than my Mini-30, but both are excellent deer rifles on par with the best 30-30 Win performance.



.
Click to expand...
Mentioning the mini 30 that’s what I have now. I may better served to build bullets and put a Burris or something better than my current Simmons on it. Not even worry about the bolt rifle at all. I just dig the idea of them using the same magazine. In theory the three rifles I have to choose from all have the same range Max and it Gauls me. Even if I can’t max them out yet.
 
I'd be more concerned about crummy Russian soft point performance more so than the potential of the round itself.

With good premium ammo, I would say it's just a touch better than popular hunting rounds like 300blk and about 2 touches worse than low level 30-30.

Inside a hundred, I would have no issues hunting with my SKS and irons for whitetail sized game.

Again, with good projectiles.
 
Way back, I used a Norinco Paratrooper SKS for doe hunting for several years. I went through a couple of different iterations of scope mounts to achieve reliable zero, but with reloaded ammo shooting undersized .308” bullets and with Rem CoreLokt factory ammo, it would hang onto 1moa. At the time, I capped myself at 250yrds, and I did take a few doe at that distance (back when we could fill freezers with 8 doe per season!).

Today, given a 1moa rifle and load, I’d hold to about the same standard, as I never like playing any “vital zone group size” games. I shoot for hearts, and limit my range to where I can deliver that precision reliably from field positions. I might convince myself of 300-350yrds, given how much more confident and competent I am at field shooting today than I was then, but by 400, just for a meat doe, I’d pass - even knowing I could knock her lungs out without fail. So 250 would remain a relatively conservative achievable self-limitation for me with a 1moa 7.62x39mm.
 
JeeperCreeper said:
I'd be more concerned about crummy Russian soft point performance more so than the potential of the round itself.

With good premium ammo, I would say it's just a touch better than popular hunting rounds like 300blk and about 2 touches worse than low level 30-30.

Inside a hundred, I would have no issues hunting with my SKS and irons for whitetail sized game.

Again, with good projectiles.
Click to expand...
That’s honestly a big factor for me. Most of what I ever find is just import cheap ammo for plinking and I have always heard some of it is under loaded and inconsistent. I was tossing rounds at a box and seemed to be holding it in about a 5 inch circle with my mini 30. I think it was the ammo. Could be he lack of practice too
 
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I have shot out to 400 on targets that are small enough to represent deer lungs, but would not consider that practical unless you go hunting with dope charts and a rangefinder. Comfortable range before you need to start ranging and doing math is about 200.
 
For hunting purposes the 7.62x39 would be just above a .22 mag . Sorry the cartridge isn't a hunting round IMO unless it's two legged and spray and pray abound the world around . I have them in several flavors including Russian but would NEVER consider them any animal cartridge . My $0.02 worth .
 
Talk, talk, talk. Look at the ballistics, bullets and common sense.
I, nowhere considered a ballistician but fairly experienced in deer hunting (killing), can see a deficit for the 7.62X39 as compared to the 30-30 mainly due to the bullets commonly used. I’ve become impressed with the165 FTX bullets and feel they, out of similar platforms, will outperform most 139 or so X39 rounds. That said, using a SKS, AK against a 94 or 336, the differences even out. My 788, I’m sure,will edge just about any other of the ChiCom chambered guns.
IMHO, regardless of history or opinion, neither are elk or moose guns. One was made to shoot deer, the other, people.
 
I've taken large bodied whitetail deer out to 175 yards with x39 and would not hesitate to take a 200 yard shot under the right conditions. If you want to take the longer shots, practice at those distances and you'll have confidence when the time comes. I practice (plink) at ~ 235 yards.

ETA: I reload my own hunting rounds with .310 dia Hornady SST
 
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someguy2800 said:
I have shot out to 400 on targets that are small enough to represent deer lungs,
Click to expand...
Just playing devil's advocate at 400 yards with the factory Hornady 123gr SST you're down 1425fps and like 550 ft lbs even a nice solid double lung the animal can run off a good distance and your 400 yards from even starting tracking.
 
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