Why do people care so much how others enjoy their firearms?

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Some see the bad financial action of sporterizing a valuable bit of history. Many of those people including me want to at least warn the owner about the sometimes extreme loss of value. I do it regularly - not so much with firearms - with 'old' ammunition. Some, not all ammunition is worth more to collectors than as shooting stock. (I have about ten rounds of Kynoch .32 ACP ammo that I will never shoot.)

Others are horrified about the choice of arm. I do not see an SKS being changed into a long range hunting rifle. I don't think that would work and it's a bad idea. Normally I will keep my mouth (fingers?) shut unless I am asked for opinion. As an opinion, I will attempt to explain my reasoning other than "Don't do that!"
On that same line, I find putting a cerakote finish on a gorgeous S&W revolver of time past is blasphemy.

And I suppose there are some who will tell one about all the miscues in one's life and all about 'that' person's foibles.

You get to figure the difference.
 
daniel craig said:
I often get a lot of vitriol in other online communities about the fact that I have modified a rifle of mine to take a scope, in a way that wasn't originally intended (mosin) I cut down the barrel and had it re-crowned too. When discussing optic options for my SKS, because I find the irons difficult to use and I want to hunt with this, a lot of people seem to want to comment on how I should just leave it alone because it's "fine the way it is" yet they don't say that kind of thing when people mod their cars, their knives, or any other gear.
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It’s a forum, people talk with or without knowledge of the subject.
 
We are all different. Have different opinions and different tastes. I personally wouldn't want it any other way. BUT....it seems some folks are insecure about their choices and need others to verify that not only is that choice right for them, but right for everybody. Thus, if you don't do things their way, you are wrong. If you don't like what they like, you are foolish....or at least that's what they try and convince you. But actually, they are just trying to convince themselves. No different than those folks that feel the need to come on these types of forums to ask random strangers....."what gun should I buy?".
 
For some people criticism is their emotional outlet, makes them feel good, superior, boosts their ego. I note that 50-60 years ago sporterizing milsurps was vey in, chic, now restoration is "in". People forget that at one time discontinued handguns-the S&W M-28 e.g, were in production and easy to obtain hence modifying one destroyed no collector value, it could easily be replaced. And Bubbas are always so proud of their handiwork, they expect acclamation, adoration, affirmation, get bent out of shape when they don't receive it
. And when they need money they get upset that their "masterpiece" doesn't sell for what they put into it.
I distinguish between "bolt on" modifications- putting a scope on a rifle that was drilled and tapped at the factory, e.g.-as opposed to those that require serious modification.
 
daniel craig said:
It's more of a psychology thing for me. Like I want to learn what makes their brains tick that way, as it seems foreign to me.
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It depends on the online venue. If you went on russian-mosin-nagant-forum.com and announced your modifications to your Mosin (and SKS) and expected applause, it means you didn't read the required blurb that states it is a preservation forum, and you might be shown the door with an admonishment to not let it hit your backside on the way out. Junk Yard Dog's forum, his rules.

While I agree with FL-NC about the ubiquitously of the Mosin and the SKS, there are rare variants out there that there are very few of. It never hurts to check and see if the Mosin you are about to drill and tap is one of those or not before doing so.

Many times someone has not read the rules there and posted pics of a rarer variant, (i.e., an M28/30) that they scoped (one guy did do having read Simo Häyhä used one for sniping, not having bothered to find out he didn't use a scope) only to find out they turned a rifle their Dad had bought in the 70's for 40 bucks, which would now be worth about 2000 dollars unmolested, into a 100-200 dollar deer rifle at most.

A 1942 Ishevsk M91/30? I wouldn't lose any sleep over one of those being scoped.
 
I have been around this old world for a long time and have learned what someone does to their stuff doesn't affect me in the least. Guns, cars, whatever, I have nothing invested in it so do what you want. I didn't say I wouldn't think someone is stupid for what they do but I generally keep my mouth shut and my fingers still and expect the same treatment for myself. Get in my face about modifying something not to your tastes will just get you ignored or if you keep pressing, told to buzz off.

Want to saw the barrel and stock off short on your Mosin, help yourself. Want to put tractor tires on your Cadillac Escalade, hop to it. You pay the bill, not me, plus it's none of my business.
 
230RN said:
I got an SKS once where that cover had marks from a scope mounting scheme. I wondered about that since the cover is not really rigidly mounted to the rest of the gun.

The SKS trigger / magazine catch / disconnector arrangement is about the most goomizigah system I've ever seen. But I guess it worked well enough for peasant soldiers, and I'm a peasant myself anyhow.

Re the Original Post:
I've hacked old military arms into sporter configuration and nowadays I feel bad about it, but back in those days, milsurp rifles were available by mail and were found in barrels in sporting goods stores. Root thought them and take your pick. I got an M1 Carbine from Dave Cook's that way, but did not sporterize it. Carbines don't need sporterizing, they're sporting rifles "as is."

And through long observation I've noticed that some specific people are habitual naysayers --the "yeah, butters." No matter what somebody says or what position they espouse, the yeah butters somehow feel duty bound to counter or criticize it in some way.

It doesn't bother me personally overmuch because I'm always right.

Terry, 230RN
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Most of my builds for SKS were done off barreled actions or incomplete rifles to start with so I just do whatever I want without guilt or remorse. I still have 10 or so barreled actions sitting waiting for me and all the parts to complete.... I just got burned out from working on SKSs and am taking a break.. I guess you could say they are my favorite rifles. I even bought the chamber reaming tools from Murrays.

Mounting an actual scope on a cover rail? Thats pretty hard. There are a few out there that can work. Red dots are not magnified so that a little different. Weaver use to make a very simple extremely oversized reciever cover mount that I was impressed with enough to order a dozen or so to use on projects. Its a lot of precise fitting though and requires a lot of patience to fit properly. A lot of people just take any old file and go to town until it locks into place then cant figured out why their zero wont hold. Anything that has come out in the last 3-4 years or so for the SKS I dont have experience with..before that I probably know it. Norinco actually made a reciever cover mount that is pretty nice and has the ability to tighten down but they are kinda rare. I have a few of those and they work pretty well for a low powered or fixed optic.

The Tech sights (Ar15 style sight) matched up with a KNS cross hair style front sight gets me as accurate as I can get with irons.

SKS modifying use to be cheap (as well as the ammo to feed them)but they became so popular that prices went kind of nutty for parts. These days I dont think they are the best option for people who want to tinker and modify things. Some people think SKSs are made of gold now... even the parts.

The last complete SKS I bought was many years ago (maybe 6). Just a simple pinned barrel Norinco that was in kinda rough shape but all matching where it counts. I restored it and its sitting there waiting for my youngest son to get older. What numbers didnt match on that rifle got scrubbed so its clean. Different numbers all over a firearm kind of irks me.

The triggers are not too bad to work on if you can get the assembly apart. Those press fit pins are a major PITA sometimes. Have to be creative sometimes not to damge things and be ready to sacrifice a few punches....and a BIG hammer! Nail punches are your friend there.

ARs really are the way to go these days. You can modify an SKS all day but it will never be as good as an AR. ARs are much easier to work on and parts are quality, endless, and inexpensive. I just find ARs kinda boring and like SKSs for whatever reason (first rifle was an SKS) and I am pretty heavily vested in the SKS already. If I was starting now I would be all over the AR15 platform like most are. Right now I have exactly one AR and I never shoot it. Brings back memories from time in the service and I choose to forget all that as much as possible.

Typically If someone just wants something cheap to start hacking on and experimenting with I tell people to start with innexpensive 22s. Lots of stuff out there cheap and they are great starters for learning and developing gunsmithing skills. Very safe as well because one they are 22s and two they are simple blowbacks or bolt actions. Lots of choices for innexpensive ammo in a huge variety of loads as well. Its almost impossible to go wrong getting into 22 rifles.
 
230RN said: ↑
I've hacked old military arms into sporter configuration
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Howland937 said:
Wow...thanks fellas. I knew I was right in my above post. You're all single handedly responsible for causing the prices of those guns to become astronomical by taking original specimens out of circulation. You should all go stand in the corner and think about what you've done. :)
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The devil made me do it.

I've got a full-up SKS with folding bayonet, grenade launcher, grenade launcher sights, the works. I like the gas cutoff valve (for grenade launching) because you can single-load the thing without it ejecting the empties. It's in pristine shape, looks like it was never used. Maybe it was issued to an Officer, har-har.

It's sure a lot of "carry" for that little cartridge, and no, it's not "like a .30-30," and several times I've thought of dismounting all the stuff, but then I think better of it.

Sure is impressive with that bayonet extended.
 
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Back when I read the gun magazines I recall many of the letters in the advice and "Ask the Gunsmith" columns were from readers asking about modifications, caliber changes, barrel changes, inevitably the answers were don't it, citing the cost of tools, parts, unsuitability of actions, the skills necessary, etc. J.B. Wood said many of his answers should be called "How the Gunsmith does it,." I suspect many of the Mauser actions used in the trades schools were late war ones, softs actions, declining metal quality, slapped together by unskilled/"guest" workers. corroded barrels, never cleaned properly, etc.
 
Howland937 said:
Wow...thanks fellas. I knew I was right in my above post. You're all single handedly responsible for causing the prices of those guns to become astronomical by taking original specimens out of circulation. You should all go stand in the corner and think about what you've done. :)
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HaHa... I promise I will always think long and hard about modifying the classics. I am not one to do things on Impulse. I had that Makarov polished and prepped for two years before I decided on a finish. Its came down to a military grade park and paint or Hard Chrome (my normal route). I finally chose a more subdued option. The pistol was not mint and is a commercial Baikal so no real tragedy there. I wouldnt do this to a nice east german or milspec makarov. If it was just a range pistol I would have just left it.... maybe deep blued once I had all the pitting etc. taken care of.
 
ColoradoMinuteMan said:
Absolutely! Clearly they do. I’ve been involved in historic aircraft and military vehicle restoration and I don’t think I’ve seen more arguments over anything than people trying to agree upon what color something should be painted to be “correct.” Not only the exterior color but the color of the primer so that when paint chips or wears off it will have a correct worn in look.
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A little off topic, but it was a plane that had guns in it so...

Visited the Paul Garber restoration center in the mid 80's where they store and restore aircraft for the Smithsonian Museum. They were in the process of restoring a Messerschmitt to as close to original condition as possible and were removing the paint by sanding the paint off layer by layer and documenting every detail of what was on each layer. Multiple layers based on multiple theaters of operation and multiple units. Anything that they couldn't find original, they would make from the original material in the way that it was originally made (when possible). The level of detail was amazing. I'd be curious to know if anyone working at that facility could find the heart to modify anything they owned from original condition if it could be avoided. That facility was a amazing. The Enola Gay was stored there at the time. I got to climb in the bomb bay and and the bombardier's seat

Back to the topic and your question, why do they comment on you modifying your guns? They probably work at the Paul Garber Facility.
 
The old phrase: I read it some where in a book.
The new phrase: I saw it on the internet.
The still newer phrase: I watched it on a youtube video.
Yup it all must be true.
 
unspellable said:
There have been hotrod loads for the 44 Special since the dawn of time, or at least since Elmer was old enough to buy whiskey. Likewise, the 45 Colt is often hot rodded, especially in Blackhawks. So I acquired a Blackhawk in 44 Special. Went to a certain forum to inquire about hot loads. The result was similar to poking a stick into a hornet's nest.

On the other hand, if you put multi grade oil in a Norton, it ain't stock!!!
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https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-casual-loading-and-adventures-thread.903012/

might be something of value to you here if you are still traveling that road. There is a few links to pearces articles. Some of which include data for high end 44 special. I have the handloader issues and can text pics of the articles if you like. Or, if push comes to shove, I could print copy them and mail them to ya if you like.
 
Because these types of firearm owners almost always exhibit a body (perhaps mental is the right term) dysmorphism of sorts, delusionably steeped in their own barren, unpopulated universe of rugged, individualistic, alfa male superiority - with all the delusions and trappings of tacticalicious warriorness that come with it :rofl:

"He can't be a man if he doesn't smoke the same cigarettes as me."
 
OP:

Some of us who often attended gun shows (recent years) had troubling Finding a Single, decent Lee-Enfield etc in the original configuration.

Most people don’t care what a specific person does to anything.

It’s just the disappointment about a lack of availability of local, “classic” guns we could find (including 20th Century handguns).

The shortage of any originals , and lack of milsurps as a category, brought to shows is the main reason I stopped going.
 
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daniel craig said:
I often get a lot of vitriol in other online communities about the fact that I have modified a rifle of mine to take a scope, in a way that wasn't originally intended (mosin) I cut down the barrel and had it re-crowned too. When discussing optic options for my SKS, because I find the irons difficult to use and I want to hunt with this, a lot of people seem to want to comment on how I should just leave it alone because it's "fine the way it is" yet they don't say that kind of thing when people mod their cars, their knives, or any other gear.
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Well, I don't know for sure as you're not giving the full story. What exactly were their responses? But modifying a Mosin to take a scope could mean a lot of things. Maybe you weakened it and it's going to blow up right next to your face?

By cutting down the barrel, you lost the front sight, so when you find out your scope scheme doesn't work, the gun is useless? Also, you'll lose velocity.

As for the SKS, I had one and tried to mount a scope on an aftermarket cover that would accommodate scope mounts. Still didn't shoot worth a damn. The steel cased bulk ammo may have had something to do with it, but I couldn't do better than pie tin size from 50 yards. I would've been more effective in a deer hunt with an accurate 22LR and taking head shots. Might just not be that accurate of a rifle.

As for saying "it's fine the way it is" they mean it's field-proven, for soldiers and low maintenance. I get that you're trying to improve them, but I feel like there's a better way to get where you're going than buying military surplus guns and modding them. Why not start with something that was designed with modern tech to be accurate, instead of wasting time trying to accurize some old turd? Is it a cash thing?

If not, maybe at least start with something known for accuracy, like a Mauser?

Nagants can be accurate, but with that vertical bolt arrangement, how are you planning to mount a scope?

Last thing: if you don't care what people think, then why post about it in a public forum?
 
Smaug said:
Well, I don't know for sure as you're not giving the full story. What exactly were their responses? But modifying a Mosin to take a scope could mean a lot of things. Maybe you weakened it and it's going to blow up right next to your face?

By cutting down the barrel, you lost the front sight, so when you find out your scope scheme doesn't work, the gun is useless? Also, you'll lose velocity.

As for the SKS, I had one and tried to mount a scope on an aftermarket cover that would accommodate scope mounts. Still didn't shoot worth a damn. The steel cased bulk ammo may have had something to do with it, but I couldn't do better than pie tin size from 50 yards. I would've been more effective in a deer hunt with an accurate 22LR and taking head shots. Might just not be that accurate of a rifle.

As for saying "it's fine the way it is" they mean it's field-proven, for soldiers and low maintenance. I get that you're trying to improve them, but I feel like there's a better way to get where you're going than buying military surplus guns and modding them. Why not start with something that was designed with modern tech to be accurate, instead of wasting time trying to accurize some old turd? Is it a cash thing?

If not, maybe at least start with something known for accuracy, like a Mauser?

Nagants can be accurate, but with that vertical bolt arrangement, how are you planning to mount a scope?

Last thing: if you don't care what people think, then why post about it in a public forum?
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A lot of times its about taking on a challenge. Makeing a milspec loose rifle into an accurate bench rest shooter is not an easy task. I agree if you are not into problemslving and troubleshooting its best to just go to the store and get a decent hunting rifle where everything has been done for you. Lots of great stuff out there.

Sounds like your experience with the SKS was pretty miserable. I suspect the cover mount was moving in combination with the ammo and probably the Milspec trigger was the culprits playing havoc with you. From the factory they are not precision rifles...at all. They are "combat" accurate. Like I said..the AR blows them away in practically every aspect. I kind of chuckle when AR fanatics (not talking about you Smaug)get irritated with SKS rifles and cheap steel case ammo performance. Ummmmmm....DUH? What do they expect?
 
What I do with and too my property is what I decide to do as long as it's legal. If I post my mods it's a guarantee someone is not going to like it, that's just the way it is. The only thing that I hate is when people mod traditional muzzleloaders but that's my problem not the person who did the mods problem so I keep my mouth shut (or my fingers off the keys). Unfortunately not everyone has the willpower or humility to keep their opinions to themselves.
 
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