Thanks for the confirmation of some of those things, driftwood. Yeah, it will take some time to get used to holding the rifle the way it should be held. Do you hold the rifle across your body, or straight out in front of you? I get the shoulder socket thing, and that’s what I was trying to do yesterday.
I am standing at approximately 45 degrees to the target, so the rifle is slung about 45 degrees across my body. I never stand directly facing the target with the rifle at 90 degrees to my body.
Let me take an opportunity to comment on the two videos posted previously. In the first video, notice the rifle has an after market, thick butt pad, probably some sort of soft rubber, It does not have a traditional crescent shaped butt plate. So when the shooter mounts the rifle he mounts it directly to the meaty part of his shoulder. Exactly as I am saying not to do. That is a relatively heavy recoiling rifle, and if it had a traditional crescent shaped butt plate, the shooter would see stars every time he fired the rifle and would develop a mighty flinch.
In the second video, the shooter is firing a replica of the 1873 Winchester, which is the preferred rifle for all the really fast shooters in CAS. I can tell his rifle has been slicked up, or tuned because he can work it so fast. His rifle has a traditional crescent shaped butt plate, but he has some sort of cover over it. I cannot tell exactly what the cover is, whether it cushions recoil or not, but I'll bet you a donut his rifle is chambered for 357 Mag, and he is shooting very lightly loaded 38 Special ammo out of it, as ALL the really fast CAS shooters do. He has also mounted the rifle to the to the meaty part of his shoulder, but if he was shooting SAAMI spec 357 Mag ammo that way, the points of the crescent shaped butt plate would really hurt after a few rounds.
Before we get too much further, let's understand the difference between a Winchester Model 1892 Rifle and a Winchester Model 1892 Carbine.
Most shooters think a carbine is just a short barrelled rifle. But during the 19th Century, Winchester built their rifles in three different configurations, rifle, carbine, and musket.
Study this photo. At the top is a typical Winchester Model 1892 Rifle with a 24" barrel, at the bottom is a typical Winchester Model 1892 Carbine. If we flipped them over we would see the carbine is a saddle ring carbine, but that does not matter for our purposes. Winchester rifles had a crescent shaped butt plate with sharp points at the top and bottom. The butt plate was a steel casting inlet into the stock. In addition, there was a metal fore end cap at the end of the fore end. Notice too that the magazine is suspended near the front by a magazine hanger dovetailed into the bottom of the barrel. There is another hanger hidden under the fore end cap. With the Carbine version, in addition to the short barrel, 20" in this case, there is no fore end cap, and the magazine is supported by two barrel bands. This particular carbine has the front sight brazed to the barrel just behind the front barrel band, but sometimes the front sight was brazed directly to the front barrel band. Rifles were available with a variety of barrel lengths, usually in 2" increments, but 24" was the most common. Carbines were also available with a variety of barrel lengths, 20" being the most common, but carbine barrels were sharply tapered, resulting in less weight, while rifle barrels were usually of constant diameter. Rifle barrels could be round, octagonal, or part round and part octagonal. Despite what you see in the advertisements, round barrels were more common than octagonal barrels on rifles, and half octagon/half round were relatively rare.
Now, let's look closer at the butt plates, the '92 rifle at the top, the '92 carbine at the bottom. In addition to the sharp points, you can see how the rifle butt plate is a piece of cast metal, varying in thickness through out. The carbine butt plate is actually a bent piece of sheet metal, screwed to the top and rear of the wooden butt. Notice too the carbine butt plate is shaped differently than the rifle butt plate, the crescent is less severe, and the angle is different. And the points are not as sharp on the carbine butt. In addition, if we looked down from the top, the carbine wooden stock has a bit of a flat machined onto the comb, the rifle wooden stock comes to a fairly sharp angle at the comb.
So, Stefan A, which one do you have, a Rifle, or a Carbine? With the carbine stock having points that are less severe, there would not be as much pain if the stock were mounted to the meaty part of the shoulder. Just for the fun of it I went to the Rossi web site and they are offering their replica of the Winchester 1892 in both rifle and carbine configurations, and from what I can see they are sticking very close to the features I just described with Winchester Rifles and Carbines.
By the way, I did mention three Winchester Configurations in the 19th Century. Rifle, Carbine, and Musket. The musket was kind of an overgrown carbine. The barrel was 'rifle' length, but the fore stock extended almost all the way to the muzzle. Yes, the 'musket' version of the Winchesters were rifled, just like the Civil War rifled muskets the Union was shooting. Musket versions of the Winchester do not show up very often, most of them were sold to foreign governments, not too many here. As such, they often had bayonet mounts on them.
I put this image together a bunch of years ago. The firearms are 1873 Winchesters, but this illustrates the difference between a rifle, carbine, and musket. At the top are two Model 1873 Rifles, with different barrel lengths, 3rd down is a Carbine, and at the bottom is a Winchester Model 1873 Musket.
Here is a video of me firing my Henry, SXS shotgun, and Colts at a couple of Cowboy Action Shooting matches. First off, I am well known for not caring about how fast I shoot, as opposed to the guy in the second video posted above. You will notice I take a fairly aggressive stance with both rifle and shotgun, leaning well forward. You may or may not be able to see I am standing approximately 45 degrees to the targets. You cannot see where the rifle is mounted, but trust me it is as I have described, with the butt plate encircling the shoulder joint. That rifle is very heavy, it weighs a full pound more than a '92 in the same configuration, and even though I am shooting 44-40 ammo stuffed to the gills with Black Powder, the heavy rifle absorbs much of the recoil and I can shoot it all day long. Notice in the second sequence how some of the empties are bouncing off my hat, and I shake my head after I put down the rifle, an old habit to make sure no empties are still on my hat. You will notice I wear a glove on my left hand because the barrel of a Henry, which lacks a wooden fore end, gets very hot on a summer day. If you look carefully you will see the tab of the magazine follower moving back after every shot, a feature unique to the Henry, which is why I am holding the rifle with my left hand barely in front of the frame, so the tab does not get hung up on my hand. The heck with what that gamer says about reaching way out with the left hand. In the third sequence I am firing my shotgun first. Notice the aggressive stance. Yes, I have to cock the external hammers for each shot. Then I sashay over to the rifle position, and fire the last two shots from my shotgun before starting with the rifle. Again, notice the aggressive stance, even though I don't care how fast I shoot. When shooting Black Powder, the smoke often obscures the targets, that is why I take a step to one side, so I can see the targets. In CAS we follow the 'basektball' rule, in other words one foot must remain planted while we can move the other foot. If I take a step with my other foot, I will get a stage DQ. The breeze is blowing the smoke from left to right, so I step to the left to see the targets. When I shoot my first pistol I take one step to see the targets better. I carry my second pistol cross draw style, so I have to pull it without sweeping anybody, that is why I take a couple of steps. Once I start shooting the second pistol, the 'basketball' rule applies again.
