What's behind the Remington primer warning?

did they give out lot numbers?

Apparently they want you to limit pressure to 20kish. I wish they would just give pressure limits not cases.

Smaug said:

Remington 1-1/2 primers have this warning:



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What's the story with that?

Would it be OK to use it in those cases, but with lighter loads of faster powder? I presume it's relating to magnum charges or other very high pressure loads.

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The No.1-1/2 SP has traditionally been for “Special” and lighter loads. The brass cups are a little thinner and the alloy “appears” to be a higher copper/lower zinc content alloy which is softer than their standard and magnum small pistol. If you keep the pressure under .38Special maximum you could probably load for those calibers without a problem. Lots of people do. Question is, why would you?

GeoDudeFlorida said:

The No.1-1/2 SP has traditionally been for “Special” and lighter loads. The brass cups are a little thinner and the alloy “appears” to be a higher copper/lower zinc content alloy which is softer than their standard and magnum small pistol. If you keep the pressure under .38Special maximum you could probably load for those calibers without a problem. Lots of people do. Question is, why would you?

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Lots of people shoot .357 and do not own a .38 Special, therefore they download the .357.

I shoot a lot of Cowboy Action and load .357 way down. Everything doesn't have to be loaded to MAX+.

Yes, the SP primers can be loaded in cartridges under 20k. The problem is, many/most sources of data, don't list pressures.

Seedy Character said:

Lots of people shoot .357 and do not own a .38 Special, therefore they download the .357.

I shoot a lot of Cowboy Action and load .357 way down. Everything doesn't have to be loaded to MAX+.

Yes, the SP primers can be loaded in cartridges under 20k. The problem is, many/most sources of data, don't list pressures.

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Cross reference 38 velocity and that's close enough for government work.

Seedy Character said:

Lots of people shoot .357 and do not own a .38 Special, therefore they download the .357.

I shoot a lot of Cowboy Action and load .357 way down. Everything doesn't have to be loaded to MAX+.

Yes, the SP primers can be loaded in cartridges under 20k. The problem is, many/most sources of data, don't list pressures.

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Most manuals since the mid-90’s have listed Cowboy Action loading data for .357Mag at 15Kpsi and lower for lead.

Go for it

1 1/2 for low pressure, 5 1/2 for the rest

The benefit is probably more reliable ignition if your gun doesn't smack primers really hard. (Like Federal primers)

Just an assumption on my part.

I'd already loaded and shot several thousand rounds before I ever encountered the warning. So in my ignorance I tested fate thousands of times and won. Thankfully, I've used all but 499 of my Rem 1 1/2, so I should be able to avoid further risk. It always struck me odd that they would include 40 S&W to the list, when it has the same or lower pressures than 9mm, yet no warning for 9mm.

markr6754 said:

I'd already loaded and shot several thousand rounds before I ever encountered the warning. So in my ignorance I tested fate thousands of times and won. Thankfully, I've used all but 499 of my Rem 1 1/2, so I should be able to avoid further risk. It always struck me odd that they would include 40 S&W to the list, when it has the same or lower pressures than 9mm, yet no warning for 9mm.

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Funny...I've heard several people refer to .40 as a "high pressure" round. Uhh... not really. Same as 9mm, just bigger.

Do you think ANYONE who currently works at whatever division of Remington owned by Ruger or ??? could possibly explain that?! (The primer recommendations) No way!

Edited to add:

Actually, I'll bet that's exactly what they'd tell the OP if he called Remington...."Oh, uh, well, yea, that's because. 40 is a high pressure round..."

The Remington 1&1/2 primer is a thinner cup primer for loads like 25 ACP where the pistol's striker can barely ignite the primer.

Don't play with the big calibers using them.

Just an FYI, Remington lists the 1 1/2 primer as the primer used in 9mm and 40 S&W in their ammo catalog.

Same/same - 6 1/2 small rifle for low pressure cartridges and 7 1/2 for everything else

Wow!!!
I’ve been reloading 357 for 40+ years!!!!
I’ve never used a single magnum primer!!!!
Wow!!!!

I have been advised that the 1 1/2 primers are for use in ammo for pistols with light firing pin strikes.

I'm thinking .25, .32, .380 ACP.

Catpop said:

Wow!!!
I’ve been reloading 357 for 40+ years!!!!
I’ve never used a single magnum primer!!!!
Wow!!!!

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IMHO, the whole "magnum" pistol primer is a misnomer. Ain't about pressure or velocity of magnum loads, but the use of hard to ignite powders that are sometimes used in magnum handgun loads. I use a lot of H110/W296....so I use a lot of "magnum" pistol primers. Only thing I use 'em for. I'm surprised that more primers makers have not goes the route that Winchester has with it's large pistol primers.

I use magnum primers in both 357mag and 38spcl, simply because that's what I found when I started loading those calibers in 2019. I worked up my loads and continue to use magnum primers because they work and I have them. I would use regular primers if I needed to, and if I could find them.

chris

I've used them in 9mm and .40 with standard pressure book loadings and not encountered any signs (flattening, cratering, piercing etc.) that would indicate the primers were not suitable. I also wondered about the reason for the warning and worked them up cautiously but it seems to be a non issue. I probably won't use them for hot .357.

fxvr5 said:

Just an FYI, Remington lists the 1 1/2 primer as the primer used in 9mm and 40 S&W in their ammo catalog.

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Do you have a link or reference to this?

Shivahasagun said:

The benefit is probably more reliable ignition if your gun doesn't smack primers really hard. (Like Federal primers)

Just an assumption on my part.

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I think that is a good assumption. From what I have read, and my own experiences, it is probable that primer cake mix does not change, perhaps excepting magnum primers. Pretty much, what these companies do is use the same primer cake and vary cup thickness, cup hardness, anvil tip shape, and anvil tip distance from the bottom of the cup. Harder cups, thicker cups, greater anvil to cup bottom distances make for a "less sensitive" primer.

I wish I had stocked up with Rem 1 1/2 primers, they look to be just what I want in a 38 Special cartridge.

Pierced primers, they will dish out firing pins. For something like an AR15, that is just a bugger, current prices under $20.00 to under $30.00. Now, dish a pre 64 M70 firing pin. Just where do you get new ones, and how much does it cost to have a gunsmith fit the thing? And what about vintage pistols, are firing pin available?

markr6754 said:

I'd already loaded and shot several thousand rounds before I ever encountered the warning.

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I had done the same with CCI 400s. I had a small rifle case and a small rifle primer, both clearly not magnum.
What could go wrong?
For me, nothing. With another few thousand left, I use them still, understanding the risks. It not like I’m going to throw them out, or try to straigh trade. Whatever my combination is, it keeps it in check.
(Until it doesn’t. For which I will find the reason, more than just, “oh, they’re thin”. Something changes, I’d like to know what it was. Temperature, fouling, sizing, whatever.)

I, of course, never recommend others to do the same. There is a warning for a reason, they are thinner, and the variation in rifles is inundating. We all need to do our due diligence, eventually.

Personally, I think it’s silly to not market them as a soft primer for older rifles and charge a premium, not the other way round.
Please don’t tell CCI this.
I’m poor and not everyone needs full throttle 5.56, or an obscure cartridge in an ancient rifle with obviously worn out springs.

Though, these pistol primers recommendations from Remington are thoroughly confusing…