AA 4064, 2495

Random 8 · Nov 20, 2022

I recently picked up some of these, as a substitute for the unavailable IMR equivalents. I have spotty data for them for a few uses, but am finding very little out there for what should be very versatile mid-range powders.

My primary use will be M1 Garand 150, 155 and 168 grain loads. I would also like to eventually use one or the other in place of IMR 4064 which I use for most everything else from military metrics to .300 Savage. This is where the holes in the data really come into play. Being relatively new and unpopular powders, and my cartridges being rather old and unpopular, they don't meet in the middle.

How close have folks found these to perform vs IMR 4895 and 4064 in known loads?

Howa 9700 · Nov 20, 2022

By coincidence, I was looking thru the Hodgdon 2022 Annual Reloading manual the other day and by chance, there is an article on this very subject. Identical loads using both versions of 4064 and 2495/4895, etc. Author's goal was to make close to identical loads using both powders. Not grain for grain of course, but in same gun, caliber and bullet. Conclusion was no difference. Both work and give similar results.

Article was written as this was the first year for the publication after Hogddon took over Accurate. No doubt a marketing ploy.

But what I found interesting......was the reported accuracy from both. Author went to a lot of work to put together loads, shoot loads, write article and apparently found no problem reporting many of these loads got him to 1.5 to 2 MOA accuracy. Some 3 MOA.

And here I've been getting that all along with my 6mm Rem from a fraction of the effort and felt like an utter failure. Perhaps I need revise expectations?

IALoder · Nov 21, 2022

I've used both in .308. AA2495 was every bit as good as IMR 4895, AA4064 shot very close to IMR 4064, it just seemed to take a little bit more to get there. Just start low and work up like usual!

AJC1 · Nov 21, 2022

IALoder said:
I've used both in .308. AA2495 was every bit as good as IMR 4895, AA4064 shot very close to IMR 4064, it just seemed to take a little bit more to get there. Just start low and work up like usual!

I've pondered this also in the powder isle as aa4064 is available and the imr is not.

IALoder · Nov 21, 2022

AJC1 said:
I've pondered this also in the powder isle as aa4064 is available and the imr is not.

IIRC it ended up getting similar accuracy and velocity within 1 gr of the IMR version, but was a bit shorter cut. This was a while ago, so I could be misremembering, but I'm pretty sure it was close.

Seedy Character · Nov 21, 2022

Get data ONLINE from Accurate Arms

No book can cover every possible cartridge, powder, bullet weight.

Howa 9700 · Nov 21, 2022

AJC1 said:
I've pondered this also in the powder isle as aa4064 is available and the imr is not.

That has been the case around here too. I've never seen a 4895 in the wild, but could have filled a truck with A2495. I stopped at 2 pounds. Same with IMR4064. In past 2 years have had two chances to buy a pound. But A4064? That has been found everywhere and in abundance for past 8 months.

AJC1 · Nov 21, 2022

Howa 9700 said:
That has been the case around here too. I've never seen a 4895 in the wild, but could have filled a truck with A2495. I stopped at 2 pounds. Same with IMR4064. In past 2 years have had two chances to buy a pound. But A4064? That has been found everywhere and in abundance for past 8 months.

I buy 2 pounds for testing. One to figure it out and a second to actually make loads or trade. If you only get one, it will be wonderful and your stuck wanting more... 8 is a little much to just try out.

Howa 9700 · Nov 21, 2022

FWIW, was looking on Midway for something else and they have available A4064, A2495 and A4350. Both 1 and 8 pounders for all of those.

Random 8 · Nov 21, 2022

Seedy Character said:
Get data ONLINE from Accurate Arms

No book can cover every possible cartridge, powder, bullet weight.

That's exactly the problem being explored by this post. These powders are poorly supported by data, including Hodg/AA online source.

Howa 9700 · Nov 21, 2022

I found several loads for Accurate powders here.......

https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

but not as many as used to be found on the downloadable Accurate load data manual, that appears to no longer be available. Some Accurate powders also found in Lee Reloading manual.

bluetopper · Nov 21, 2022

My favorite burn rate chart.

Burn Rates Page 2013 (accuratepowder.com)

AJC1 · Nov 21, 2022

bluetopper said:
My favorite burn rate chart.

Burn Rates Page 2013 (accuratepowder.com)

I like that version a lot better than the numerical list...

tmd16556 · Nov 21, 2022

I picked up a pound the other day too. Manuals don’t cover the A 4064 well but it looks like Hogdon’s data is good enough to start playing with it in 30-06 and save my IMR powders for the more obscure 25 calibers.

FLIGHT762 · Nov 22, 2022

Today, Accurate 2495, 4064 and 4350 are manufactured in Canada in the same General Dynamics manufacturing facility in Valleyfield as the IMR powders are. They are just as good as their IMR counterparts.

Slamfire · Nov 22, 2022

Both AA2495 and AA4064 shoot exceptionally well. My lots came from the 1990's and the vendors probably have changed, but I doubt the pressure curve standards are different. Accurate Arms told me they blended AA2495 to the IMR 4895 pressure curve and in my experience, close enough for Government work. My lots of AA4064 developed pressure indications before IMR 4064 did at the same velocities.

A real problem that occurs with my 2010 data, is that my 1990 lots of AA4064 were deteriorating. I was encountering cracked case necks, and maybe some of the pressure indications were due to deteriorated gun powder.

I think fresh, new AA4064 is a great powder, I love how it meters. And when AA2495 was less than IMR 4895, I bought kegs of it and shot it up in NRA Highpower Competition. It is good stuff, works outstandingly in the 223 Rem, 308 Win, and 30-06.

With a 30-06 I would use around 48.0 grains with a 168 match bullet. I used the same powder charge with a 175 and it shot well in a bolt gun. Have to verify that it does not over accelerate the Garand operating rod, I doubt it will.

30-06 data

Code:

1937 mfgr  30-06 Winchester M70 24" barrel,  
148  Israeli FMJBT 59.5 grs WC852 IMI cases CCI 200 

23-Jan-17 T = 59 °F     

Ave Vel = 2658      
Std Dev = 27     
ES = 76      
Low = 2628     
High = 2704     
N = 10      

175 SMK 48.0 grs AA4064, wtd, lot 2398 Czech, TW54 CCI #34 OAL 3.30" 
23-Jan-17 T = 59 °F     

Ave Vel = 2590      
Std Dev = 30     
ES = 97      
Low = 2551     
High = 2648     
N = 10     

175 SMK 48.0 grs AA4064, lot 5902 TW54 CCI #34 OAL 3.30"  
23-Jan-17 T = 60 °F     

Ave Vel = 2508      
Std Dev = 32     
ES = 127      
Low = 2465     
High = 2592     
N = 12      
eleven cracked case necks!     

175 SMK 48.0 grs IMR4064 wtd, lot E89AU, 1989 powder,  TW54 CCI #34 OAL 3.30"
23-Jan-17 T = 60 °F     

Ave Vel = 2563        
Std Dev = 27      
ES = 92      
Low = 2525     
High = 2617

308 Win data

Code:

Pre-64 M70  308 Win                                                                               

24 " Douglas Barrel 1:10 twist                                                                                           

168 Nosler 41.0 AA2495 Lot 21594  CCI#34 LC Mixed  OAL 2.8"                                                                
30-Apr-03           T = 82° F                                                                                     
 
Ave Vel =2567                                            
Std Dev =8                                                 
ES =       19                                                 
Low =    2556                                                            
High =   2575                                              
Number rounds = 7                                                                                   


168 Sierra 42.5 AA4064 wtd lot 9599  CCI#34 LC Mixed OAL 2.8"                                                               
30 April 03 T = 82° F                                                                                              

Ave Vel =2589                             
Std Dev =22
ES =       52                                                                 
Low =    2551                                                            
High =   2603                                                             
N =         5                                                                                   

168 Sierra 42.5 AA4064 wtd  CCI#34 LC Mixed OAL 2.8"                                                                                 2 July 04 T = 82° F                                                                                                 

Ave Vel =2607             
Std Dev =45                 
ES =       143                                                              
Low =    2518                                                            
High =   2661                                             
N =         10                                                                                 

168 Sierra 42.5 AA4064 wtd  CCI#34 LC Mixed OAL 2.8"                                                                                 
21 Sept 04 T = 72 ° F                                                                                           

Ave Vel =2565                                            
Std Dev =41                                  
ES =       125                                                
Low =    2492                                                            
High =   2617               
N =         10                                                                                 

168 Nosler 43.0 AA4064 wtd WLR CAVIM brass OAL 2.8"                                                                            
30 April 03 T = 82° F  

Ave Vel =2576                                                                          
Std Dev =6                                                                                
ES =       13                                                                                
Low =    2571                                                            
High =   2584                                                                           
N =         4                                                                                   

sticky extraction on two shots V.good group                                                                                              

168 Nosler 43.0 AA4064 wtd lot 5902 LC77 WLR (brass) OAL       2.8     
30 April 03 T = 82° F                                                                                                                                           
Ave Vel =             2595                               
Std Dev =             29                                    
ES =       103                                                              
Low =    2532                                             
High =   2635                                             
N =         10                                                                                 

slight cupping around primer hole. Close to max                                                          

168 Nosler 43.5 AA4064 wtd lot 5902 WLR (brass) LC72 OAL       2.8     
30 April 03 T = 82° F   
                                                                                                                               
Ave Vel =             2669               
Std Dev =             30                                                                
ES =       83                                                  
Low =    2616                               
High =   2699                                             
N =         10                                                                                 
excellent group, easy extraction flattening primers, cupping around primer hole                                               





M70  308 Win 26" Wilson Barrel, McMillian prone stock

175 SMK 40.5 grs AA4064, wtd, lot 2398 Czech, LC 79 WLR OAL 2.800"
23-Jan-17 T = 55 °F   
 

Ave Vel = 2486     
Std Dev = 16    
ES = 47     
Low = 2459     
High = 2506    
N = 10    

Stuck case shots 3 & 7. Hard to close bolt, had to use cleaning rod to extract case
Nice rounded primers!   

175 SMK 41.0 grs AA4064, wtd, lot 2398 Czech, LC 79 WLR OAL 2.800"
23-Jan-17 T = 55 °F   

Ave Vel = 2527      
Std Dev = 23     
ES = 64      
Low = 2497      
High = 2561     
N = 10      

Stuck case shots 6 & 8. Hard to close bolt, had to use cleaning rod to extract case
rounded primers! 

175 SMK 41.5 grs AA4064, wtd, lot 5902 LC 64 CCI #34
19-Aug-13 T = 85 °F   
 
Ave Vel = 2642      
Std Dev = 7     
ES = 20      
Low = 2634      
High = 2654     
N = 6      

five cracked case necks!

That 1990's lot of AA4064 was causing pressure issues and cracked case necks when it was about 20 years old.

Eventually I dumped it.

AA 4064, 2495

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