Small Or Large Rifle Primers In .308?

As AJC1 said ; Buy some Norma Target and MAKE Your loads after firing the factory match stuff .

Exactly what I've done in 6.5 CM ,as cases were ridiculous cost wise ,so for less than half again what cases cost ; I shot Quality Target fodder and ended up with Premium Brass . I also wanted 6.5CM Brass instead of .243 altered . I've got enough headaches with .222 , .223 . 308 .243 and now 6.5 CM brass mix ups . Sometimes pockets in MY Range bag spill out inside and it all gets jumbled about .

BushMaster-15 said:

I shot Quality Target fodder and ended up with Premium Brass .

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I even do that in .308. Might as well get one firing out of them without all the effort...

I went through this dilemma earlier this year when I started loading 6.5 CM. I wanted to go small primer since I had/have a bunch of SRP's and no LRP's. But the SP brass was very hard to find at that time. Hopefully that has changed, but it was all backordered with no expected dates. I got lucky and ended up getting a bunch of LRP's from a buddy that has gotten out of rifle loading, so ended up going with LP brass. And I'm glad I did. Much easier to source brass for.

Loading for a bolt rifle it would for me depend on the use. If you going straight target/ comp then go for the gold and get what you can afford.

If you are loading strictly for hunting and informal target then I would suggest buying a bulk box of Starline and be done with it. You can get either size pocket when it is available.

I use a combination of factory, milsurp, and Starline. I have both a bolt and semi rifle to load for. When I first got the bolt, I simply purchased Rem 150 CL since I could usually buy them for around $10 a box right after deer season. I'd get 10 boxes and that usually would do me till around Sept depending upon the hog population. Then I'd grab some more.

Most all that I load uses H4895 since it shoots well in both rifles. I loaded for group and my load duplicates the Rem load out to 300yds. It isn't hot enough to mess with the primer pockets so I should have plenty of brass for years to come.

Great, just like with 45acp I will now need to sort another flavor of brass.

Another person to kick in the ding ding if I ever find them.

Jerry M said:

My understanding is that small rifle primers in 308 started with the bench rest crowd who wanted the mildest ignition possible for accuracy.

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Jerry, it’s actually competitors who shoot in Palma matches, as I mentioned earlier, and it’s all about increased brass life, not powder ignition. Not many .308 shooters in Bench Rest matches.

Palma being limited to 155gn bullets and having to hold the 10 ring at 1,000 yards means you have to push the limit on loads to get as much speed as possible. The downside is brass doesn’t last very long with large primer pockets.

Small pockets have more meat in the case head and you can get ~2x the number of reloads from them vs large pockets when loading on the hot side

Firing pin diameter is something else to consider. The 308 case on the left was shot with my hunting rifle. The 308 Palma case on the right was shot with my target rifle, which has a smaller diameter firing pin. While I haven’t had any issues shooting Palma brass in rifles with larger diameter pins, there could be an increased risk of piercing a primer

Charlie98 said:

I even do that in .308. Might as well get one firing out of them without all the effort...

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" IF " Quality Loaded ammo is affordable and has GOOD Brass cases ,I'd do it NEAR ALL THE TIME

I mean come on 124 Gr. 9mm #1K round cases delivered to MY house for $150.00 ?. NO one can load 9mm rounds for $ 0.15 ,not even I and replace bullets !. Components as everyone knows has skyrocketed over last 2 + Years MY only regret is I didn't order #10 cases at that price . Because right now that $0.15 gets one a primer ,IF YOU'RE LUCKY

BushMaster-15 said:

" IF " Quality Loaded ammo is affordable and has GOOD Brass cases ,I'd do it NEAR ALL THE TIME

I mean come on 124 Gr. 9mm #1K round cases delivered to MY house for $150.00 ?. NO one can load 9mm rounds for $ 0.15 ,not even I and replace bullets !. Components as everyone knows has skyrocketed over last 2 + Years MY only regret is I didn't order #10 cases at that price . Because right now that $0.15 gets one a primer ,IF YOU'RE LUCKY

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I get 10c primers but your absolutely right your not even able to reload your own case at that price. My 38s are about 25c.

The Great part for ME is , I'm still using for the most part Match Fed LR primers which I paid $14.50 per K and $12.50 a K for regular LR primers . However we all know REPLACEMENT is what's KICKING OUR BUTTS or at least mine .
A penny a primer is now a Dime and NO reasonable discount buying cases or cartons of Bricks aka sleeve #5K !. Sad times has befallen reloaders , IMO . I was being kind on MY last trip to Sportsman's and only purchasing a few hundred SP primers of which I was nearly out of .
Like some fool ,I figured let others get some also no need to be greedy .
Well Next trip if stocked I'll WIPE the shelves clean as they were $0.05 per primer .

And while on primer subject ,WHY OH WHY are Shotshell primers LESS $$$'s than Pistol or Rifle primers ???????. There's got to be 2-3 times the material in Shotshell primers . Something smells foul .

In the 1970s Remington offered .308 bench rest brass (small primer pockets) manufactured with thinner wall to be resized into other cartridges for bench rest shooting.

Remington1911 said:

Great, just like with 45acp I will now need to sort another flavor of brass.

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You’ll never inadvertently run across small primer 308 brass outside of a handful of ranges around the US - and even then only the most unfortunate of lost cases, and you’d probably have BEEN THERE for that reason or one closely related.

They’ve been around for decades.

Bud of mine claimed that 308 small primer brass did give better groups than large rifle, but he encountered misfires in cold weather.

If you use small primer brass, shoot it on a warm day............

BushMaster-15 said:

And while on primer subject ,WHY OH WHY are Shotshell primers LESS $$$'s than Pistol or Rifle primers ???????. There's got to be 2-3 times the material in Shotshell primers . Something smells foul .

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Shotgun primers are generally made of steel, while pistol and rifle primers are brass.

I have no idea how much manufacturers pay for metals, but the last time I took in a load of scrap they were paying less than four cents a pound for steel and almost two bucks for brass.

AJC1 said:

I get 10c primers but your absolutely right your not even able to reload your own case at that price. My 38s are about 25c.

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Yes, but I shoot maybe 200rnds of 9mm A YEAR vs close to a thousand .38Spl in the same time frame. Almost as much .45ACP. The only thing I shoot less often than 9mm is .32Auto. I really enjoy .38Spl and .45Auto; 9mm is a necessary evil.

Like many here I have LR primers from times past and enough brass for my future needs BUT! if I were starting out with a new cartridge I’d go with what is most available and not bother with specialty cartridges. JMHO

I run large in my 308, but Im not pushing super hard for velocity either. If I was, a Palma small primer case would be the way to go. The added advantage of LP brass is that is it generally more available.
In my 6 CM I run SP brass, but only because I want the case life from running loads that are consistently at the top or just above what the book says.

One thing I have seen that you do need to think about? Running SP is fine, but you need to run a BR or magnum primer. CCI #41 would also work. A standard SRP will not stand up to the pressure in my experience due to the cup being thinner. Thats why I run CCI BR4s in my 6 CM.
I run a mix of Peterson, Lapua and Starline brass depending on what my goals are if you are interested in brands. More accuracy expected, I use more expensive brass.

BushMaster-15 said:

" IF " Quality Loaded ammo is affordable and has GOOD Brass cases ,I'd do it NEAR ALL THE TIME

I mean come on 124 Gr. 9mm #1K round cases delivered to MY house for $150.00 ?. NO one can load 9mm rounds for $ 0.15 ,not even I and replace bullets !. Components as everyone knows has skyrocketed over last 2 + Years MY only regret is I didn't order #10 cases at that price . Because right now that $0.15 gets one a primer ,IF YOU'RE LUCKY

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Around here all primers but shotgun primers are running between .08 and .13 depending on where you look. My last shotgun primers cost .07.

IMHO reloading hand gun calibers never really did "save much money" even 10 years ago. Now if you wanted something off the wall goofy that you just could not buy, then yea. I liked 9mm with the fattest bullet I could find moving as slow as I could to make the gun run for bowling pin matches.

Move to rifle cartridges and today you are getting a deal at $1 per bang.

Over on the surplus site this topic just came up, prices on 54R range from around .70 to over 1.10 per trigger pull. I can make it for roughly .75 amortizing the brass out for 5 reloadings. I generally get more as I don't load them hot and work the brass as little as possible.

Same goes for shotgun shells, the cheap stuff you can buy a couple pennies less per shell then I can reload them for....and they still bust clays just fine.

Remington1911 said:

Move to rifle cartridges and today you are getting a deal at $1 per bang.

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When the Obama shortage hit, after one of the shootings somewhere, and ammo spiked about 100% overnight... I saw a 1000rd box of M193 some guy had at the gunshow for $1000. I laughed... but someone, by the end of the day, probably bought it. I had already socked away a fair amount of surplus .308 and factory 5.56mm to not have to worry.

Back when I bought my M1a, mid-2000's, surplus was .33/rd, or thereabouts. Everyone had a fit when it went to, first, .40/rd... then .50/rd... then genuine surplus pretty much dried up, unless someone imported some weird find from somewhere (think the PMC that hit about 2019, etc.) Now... it's about $1/rd for surplus... if you can find it.

Charlie98 said:

When the Obama shortage hit, after one of the shootings somewhere, and ammo spiked about 100% overnight... I saw a 1000rd box of M193 some guy had at the gunshow for $1000. I laughed... but someone, by the end of the day, probably bought it. I had already socked away a fair amount of surplus .308 and factory 5.56mm to not have to worry.

Back when I bought my M1a, mid-2000's, surplus was .33/rd, or thereabouts. Everyone had a fit when it went to, first, .40/rd... then .50/rd... then genuine surplus pretty much dried up, unless someone imported some weird find from somewhere (think the PMC that hit about 2019, etc.) Now... it's about $1/rd for surplus... if you can find it.

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Yup the same thing happened with the Mosins.

Buy a "full power" rifle in a cartridge in the same ballpark as a 3006 for $89, and then 440 round spam can for another $60....where else can you find that. Rifles got bought up and BUBBA'ed up, I cry each time I see a "sporter" Westinghouse or Remington. But it was a very cheap hard hitting rifle.

Then the supplies dried up, and now there is really little difference between the rot gut surplus ammo and new production....if you can find the surplus. I still have 90% of a spam can covered in dust and dog hair, it is just not that accurate.....accurate enough for the zombie masses provided I don't need to do head shots, but useless for anything else.

I think the days of these things are now over.

Slamfire said:

Bud of mine claimed that 308 small primer brass did give better groups than large rifle, but he encountered misfires in cold weather.

If you use small primer brass, shoot it on a warm day............

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If you stick with a single base powder or some low nitroglycerin stick powder.
Also loadings that give full/compressed powder charge helps too.

Small primer .308 loads tend to go periodically in and out of fashion with target shooters. My first encounter was back in the early '70's when Remington introduced small primer .308 BR brass. I, like a number of other high power shooters at the time, had to give it a try but soon learned that whatever supposed accuracy advantages it had to offer were outweighed by its disadvantages. Most notably being erratic ignition in cold weather, and with certain powders. However, the BR cases were adopted by wildcaters and a number of successful wildcat and benchrest cartridges were built around the Remington SPBR case. One popular wildcat being the ultra-velocity .22 CHeetah, which was the BR case necked down to .22 and blown out shoulders. A sample shown in attached pic. Shooting fashions repeat themselves about every generation, which is why I had to chuckle when Lapua introduced their .308 Palma brass, which was only a repeat of Remington's .308 BR case of about a half century before. And the lessons we learned back then will be learned all over again by following generations.

Offfhand said:

Small primer .308 loads tends to go periodically in and out of fashon with target shooters. My first encounter was back in the early '70's when Remington introduced small primer .308 BR brass. I, like a number of other high power shooters at the time, had to give it a try but soon learned that whatever supposed accuracy advantages it had to offer were outweighed by its disadvantages. Most notably being erratic ignition in cold weather, and with certain powders. However, the BR cases were adopted by wildcaters and a number of wildcat cartridges were built around the Remington SPBR case. One popular wildcat being the ultra-velocity .22 CHeetah, which was the BR case necked down to .22 and blown out shoulders. A sample shown in attached pic. Shooting fashons repeat themselves about every generation, which was demonstrated when Lapua introduced their .308 Palma brass, which was only a repeat of Remington's .308 BR case of about a half century before.
And the lessons we learned back then were to be learned all over again by a following generation.View attachment 1116556 View attachment 1116557 View attachment 1116558

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LOL!!! What was it Carlos Santana said? “People who don’t read history books aren’t going to hear that great guitar solo I did at Woodstock.”

Charlie98 said:

It's very unlikely you'd ever find a spent SR .308 case on the ground... those that shoot them recover their brass like they were made of gold, understandably.

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That's because they are gold
I think the OP would be best suited with LR brass if he hunts. If not. It's on him.

What may be a rather interesting addition to the subject of small rifle vs. large rifle primers: several years ago (the 80's as I recall) Remington made up a batch of .22/250 Rem. brass with small rifle primer pockets rather than the usual LR size pockets. Samples, lacking identifying headstamps, were sent to me and, presumably, similar other hard-core handloaders and rifle experimenters, requesting that we load and compare these with same .22/250 loads with LR primer brass. I tried several combinations of powders and bullets and tested them in a Remington 40-X rifle which was the most accurate .22/250 I had at the time. Loads with the SR primers sweetly accurate, but statically no more so that identical loads with LR primers. I suspect Remington's R&D received similar reports from other experimenters because if their ultimate purpose, if justified by our glowing reports, was to go to market with uber-accurate .22/250 ammo featuring SL primers, or possibly only .22/250 SR brass. Whichever, it never came to pass. Attached pic shows remainder of unstamped SR brass and one of the .22/250 test loads.

Swampman said:

Shotgun primers are generally made of steel, while pistol and rifle primers are brass.

I have no idea how much manufacturers pay for metals, but the last time I took in a load of scrap they were paying less than four cents a pound for steel and almost two bucks for brass.

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Yes they are steel copper washed in some instances but mixture is #3 times more content that LRP or at least used to be ,Now Not sure ?

A primer cap is a stamping made from rolled copper-alloy sheet. The sheet is fed into a small stamping press where a multiple die set produces more than a dozen caps on each stroke. The caps are often nickel-plated. Primer caps are made in different diameters for different applications.

Found this interesting as well as pertinent to possible COST increase !. Government meddling is always 100% the reason things cost more !!!.
It's a GOOD short read .