Pump action shotgun is not for everyone

crestoncowboy said:
Same. Ive fired 2 barrels at once shooting skeet with one hand. Id think a 30-06 would be pretty bad one handed. But I don't own one. I know Bonnie was said to fire the BAR from the hip at trees and she was small. But the bar is heavy too.



He says he is 6'8. Thats a great deal away from 7 foot. I'm 6'3 barefoot and I'm a great deal from 6'8. Adding 4 inches to one's height isn't a slight exaggeration. Also ive found when a man says he is 6'5 you can almost always deduct 2-3 inches. Same for bench press. Lol . Ive had people who were 2-3 inches shorter than me argue that they were 6'3 or 6'4. Even going so far as tell me I'm taller than I thought. Lol.

And height isn't the issue. Id imagine weight is more so. If anything height would add leverage to the recoil. Lol. The higher up the weight is the more the recoil reacts. Much why some sportbikes use the frame and low down to store fuel and such. Gets the weight lower. Same for linemen. Keep the weight low or you fall over. Either way, a 12 guage shouldn't bruise anything much less the bicep. Ive used a 12 guage since I was 10 (jc higgins branded flight king) with no issues. My girls (5'5 and 120 lb and 5'3 100lb) use a 12 guage pump with no issues. Field loads almost exclusively but no "low recoil" and no special recoil pads. 100 rounds of skeet loads sometimes. Whatever is cheapest at Walmart. I think the issue isn't fit, my kids use my off the shelf shotguns. If they showed interest in it I'd have one fixed. I did get my oldest a fitted 243 this year. Holding the gun right is likely the issue.

That said, I've hunted with every ultramag amd Weatherby mag rifle made and never had an issue. Currently use a 300 mag ultralight or a 338 Lapua. Never had issue. But I have 1 single AR that leaves horizontal red marks on my shoulder. So the shape does matter. But bicep bruising from a shotgun is doing damage . I also have an old falling block that has a metal pointed butt plate. It hurts a bit.

Some people bruise easier as well.
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Correct hold is part of fit.
Stock design is a big factor. Those curve buttstocks, with pointy, metal end caps can be brutal. Especially when not held correctly.
 
More than a few times over the years I've noted that there are quite a few folks wanting something for home defense, getting a shotgun for that purpose -then selling it off when they find out it's not for them... One of the factors is the belief on the part of the homeowner that they must have the heaviest, hardest shooting ammunition - since that's what they've heard or read from someone in the macho business... who must know all about it...

Horsefeathers, as one TV character used to say. Anyone that believes they need three inch or larger rounds in a close quarters shotgun to be effective has never looked at the actual wounds basic 2 3/4" 00buck rounds can do. In fact,at less than 15 meters (few if any dwellings have that much distance in their rooms, maybe in hallways - and certainly not in doorway defense situations...). That basic round is a one shot fight ender with a center of mass impact at these ranges... In fact at 7 meters with a basic riot gun with a simple improved cylinder choke - the pattern will be no greater than seven inches (it spreads one inch per meter from the muzzle going downrange in the shotguns for police work that it was tested for.. at six feet the entire pattern will be slightly less than two inches....). Yes it will penetrate from 15 to 18" in ballistic gelatin so know it will penetrate into and through an assailant's vitals - and you'd better be darned certain of your target and what's behind it... I can't think of a better weapon for home defense period - but that's just my opinion...

As noted above, have the shotgun fitted to you so that you'll be comfortable shooting it - then find someone to teach you the basics, starting with light bird loads, then move up to 00buck basic rounds to learn what you need to know and become confident with that weapon. Yes, it kicks - but imagine the effect downrange against someone that wants to harm you or your family... Like I said it's absolutely a one shot fight ender -if you do your part...

By the way, I was in police work and in charge of training for a hundred man department when the first proposals for "police carbines" came along. The main reason was two-fold, not many new recruits were coming from backgrounds where they were very comfortable with shotguns for hunting (understatement) and many serving officers, although they could qualify with the shotgun would ever use one - except as a last resort. Along with that was the rise in the numbers of "recruits with smaller stature", that were not likely to ever prefer or use a shotgun. Female officers that I knew were every bit as good as male officers - and in some cases better since they tended to use brain instead of muscle to sort out bad situations - but using a shotgun? Not likely, with rare exceptions... The result was the switch to the patrol carbine instead... I'm fairly certain that that's all there was to it as far as the urban and suburban environments that many police outfits contend with. Out west, with the greater distances and smaller populations involved had long ago added a rifle of some kind to their officer's equipment.... for obvious reasons...
 
Ran 3 and half boxes of 3.5 inch bb shot out of my 870 in a 5 day duck and goose hunt last year didn’t find it that unpleasant but I’m used to shooting 10 gauge bps also
 
Rpod86 said:
Yea we don’t get that kinda shooting here in east tn had to go to Arkansas for that lol
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Was a goose guide on Texas coast, South of Houston. Before 3 1/2" 12 existed.
Weekend of heavy 3" would make a believer out of you.

The difference in brand and loads was night and day.
 
lemaymiami said:
More than a few times over the years I've noted that there are quite a few folks wanting something for home defense, getting a shotgun for that purpose -then selling it off when they find out it's not for them... One of the factors is the belief on the part of the homeowner that they must have the heaviest, hardest shooting ammunition - since that's what they've heard or read from someone in the macho business... who must know all about it...
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I agree. As I've written here before, lower velocity shotgun loads have a lot of advantages over high-velocity loads in many situations, and often zero disadvantages. I'd challenge anyone who loads their own shot shells to work up identical loads at, say, 1100 FPS and 1350 FPS, take them out and pattern them, take them wing-shooting, take them target shooting, or whatever other uses you have for your shotgun, and see which one performs best. And take note of the advantages of the lower recoil from the lower MV loads; you can get back on the next target more quickly, and you're in better control of the gun at all times. I've done this for various muzzle-velocity loads ranging from 1 ounce to 1.625 ounce of shot in 12 gauge, and similar light-to-heavy in 20 gauge. I never found an instance where the high velocity load overall out-performed the lower velocity load in real-world situations. I got better, more uniform patterns, and I was quicker at shooting doubles or triples due to the lower recoil, and overall was more effective with the gun.

Note, I have not compared them in high altitude/long distance duck or goose hunting, stuff like that, but rather wing-shooting inside of 40 yards, clay target shooting of various configurations, etc.
 
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First off, the only way you got bruises on your upper biceps was if the butt was mounted on your upper biceps. Learn to mount the gun properly and you won't have that problem. After that a little fitting my be necessary

I'm 6' 4" at 275 lbs. And I don't like recoil. I would never shoot heavy loads out of a light gun. There is nothing wrong with recoil pads. I think you're just foolish if you're shooting a pump or break open gun if you don't have a recoil pad. You want to walk around pumping your chest because you don't have a recoil pad ? Get a life. Go enter some " tuff man competition". Most guys like to enjoy shooting a shotgun.

Recoil is the mass of the shot, wad, and powder, times the velocity squared. Nock a little speed off goes along way in reducing recoil. The weight of the gun is also taken into consideration. So as turbo says, 1100fps is all that's needed. Maybe all those people who found the shotgun was not their cup of tee for home defense should have tried light loads.
 
I'm 69, took an all day shotgun class about two years ago. No problem shooting all day, sighting in slugs at the end of the day kinda got my attention, I survived. My wife is 4' 11", 97lbs, she likes shooting the 870, she manages the recoil pretty well, no way she could do an all day class though. I put a Blackhawk stock on it, helps with the recoil.
 
I agree with OP, not for everyone. However, I will share a little experience with recoil.

When I began shooting my pump, I got beaten a bit. It was because I didn't hold it properly. It must be held firmly. Through shooting trap with mine (I have 18" and 28" barrels), which means many rounds fired, I adapted to the gun and found a better shooting position. These trap loads are light compared to slugs and buckshot.

After a few hundred rounds, which is not that much, recoil started to bother me less and less. Now, after years shooting it, even 3" 000 buckshot is easily manageable. Not exactly a round I would shoot all day long, but manageable. No bruises anymore either.

So, I guess practice makes it easier. Start with lighter loads, become acquainted with the gun, and then, once comfortable with it, practice with heavier loads if you have a use for them.

I also noticed that shooting slugs sitting at the bench is atrocious compared to shooting them offhand while standing up, which I now find pleasant for a while.

A good recoil pad is essential. Enjoy one!
 
To each their own. During Covid lockdown, I determined to learn more about shotguns. Recoil is what it is. 45-70, 308, 30-06, and even lower calibers out of light guns can smack you good. Practiced with the shotgun at sporting clays with target loads of course. At the range with slugs and double oh’s or whatever also I could dig up (expression, I don’t burry ammo). Yeah the should might hurt, but no more than my M44 Nagant. Hence I say to each their own. I know it might smack me, but I just go with it. I am no expert. Better with a shotgun, yes. How much better, debatable. I do however now have five shotguns. All but one 12 ga.
 
I have been shooting the same 870 since 1975. Probably fifty to a hundred rounds every week or so as I shoot in three different trap leagues. I even shoot the odd round of skeet with it. I've ranged from 180 to 240 and weight makes no difference. The original pad had turned into a brick somewhere around 2000 so I put a Pachmayr on it a couple years ago.
Learn the proper hold, don't tense up, and buy 1150 fps loads.
I have four other 870s for various uses from deer to ducks to defense. I only use three inch shells for turkey.
I don't think a pump is for everyone either, but most people could get buy quite well with one if they got one that fit and put in the time and effort to learn to use it.
I never knew about gun fitting til fifteen years ago. I guess I've grown around my gun as nothing else feels right.
 
I used to teach shotgun shooting as a certified instructor. I also belonged to a sporting clays league and have been an avid bird hunter for decades. First of all is to learn to properly mount your shotgun in the pocket of your shoulder tightly and proper cheek weld. Practice mounting and pointing your shotgun several times a day. Use target loads only, until you are proficient. There is nothing wrong about using a Past shield or other pad but you should practice with it. Also don't try to pump too fast. slow and sure is better. Practice is very important. If you can find a certified instructor or a competitive shooter to coach you that would be great also watch good videos. Don't try to be tactical or play video games for real. Learn how to do it right. Maybe join a trap league.
 
Stefan A said:
I’m with you on this. I don’t enjoy shooting my 12 gauge 870. I know how to hold it, and it just hurts. Slugs or 9shot, doesn’t matter. Not fun.
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Thousands of trap and skeet shooters, along with countless hunters, have fired millions of rounds through their 12 gauge pump guns over the years without ill effect. Weight and balance of the gun, along with using the appropriate shells and holding the gun correctly, makes shooting them a non-issue in terms of excessive recoil.
 
You couldn't pay me enough to shoot a light pump with magnum loads - 3" shells. First, learn to mount the gun to your chest. Then add a recoil pad if there isn't one. Then you could fill the stock after the recoil pad is removed with lead shot or one of the recoil reducers from Brownells [ they slide in the hole for the mounting bolt. Hope one of my suggestions will help.
 
If you are recoil sensitive and some people are then you need to buy a 20 gauge shotgun. It will do just about everything the 12 will do without pain and suffering from recoil. No I don't have one as I use a 12 but have friends that just can't handle the 12 recoil and they found the 20 gauge to be a perfect choice for them.
 
Well all I can say is the only time I have ever had a bruised bicep from a shotgun was following a trotting fox and had to bring muzzle up to get around the bush I was sitting behind. Came back don on target and new it wasn’t in the pocket, squeezed it off anyways. That said at 5’7” 140# I have 1 over under and 2, 12 ga pumps never including as a teenager shooting 10 gauge for fun have I ever been beaten up by a shotgun except that one time. I dove hunt every year open to close of season 2x day 3-4x week and train with the inside the house gun regularly. Check your fit and use proper ammo.
 
old fart said:
If you are recoil sensitive and some people are then you need to buy a 20 gauge shotgun. It will do just about everything the 12 will do without pain and suffering from recoil. No I don't have one as I use a 12 but have friends that just can't handle the 12 recoil and they found the 20 gauge to be a perfect choice for them.
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Or they could load a 12 gauge with the same amount of shot and muzzle velocity as the 20 gauge, and if the guns weighed the same, the felt recoil would be no greater with the 12 gauge. If the 12 gauge gun weighs more, as they typically do, then the 12 gauge would actually exhibit less felt recoil.

I've had several 20 gauge guns and several 12 gauge guns over the past 50+ years, and have loaded most of my own shot shells. I still have a 20 gauge SxS and love it more than I do a 12 gauge SxS guns because of the smaller size and lighter weight of the gun, and the overall feel in hand. But other than those reasons/preferences (which are valid, IMO, and apply to more than just SxS guns), I can't find a compelling reason for a 20 gauge.

A 12 gauge can do anything that a 20 gauge can do, including providing light recoil. And a 12 gauge can do a lot more than a 20 when you get to pushing the range and needing heavy shot charges to keep the pattern full. Once you reach the range (distance to target) where the pattern starts developing gaps/open areas, adding shot is how you fill it back in. Since the 12 can accommodate a lot more shot than the 20, the effective range of the 12 can be extended quite a few yards.

I use to routinely shoot 1 3/8 ounce 12 gauge loads, and frequently up to 1 5/8 ounce, for stuff like doves and blackbirds, or longer distance clay targets (all of these were in 2 3/4" shells). For a while there I didn't tell my shooting buddies what I was doing, and they were believing that my 26" Improved Cylinder/Modified Remington 3200 was some sort of magic unicorn gun. Kind of like having a hidden 200 HP nitrous shot on your small block Chevy. :)
 
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I6turbo said:
If the 12 gauge gun weighs more, as they typically do, then the 12 gauge would actually exhibit less felt recoil.
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I have a Merkel double chambered in 20 gauge that weighs under six pounds. When shooting 3" Magnums, this little gun will give any 12 gauge pump a run for its money in terms of recoil that smarts. It's usually not the gun but more how you hold it and using common sense when deciding which loads to use, no matter the gauge or type of action.
 
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If you want a fun and easy to shoot shotgun try to find and fire a Panzer Arms BP12 or EGX-500 bull-pup shotgun, its a real pussy cat with Federal 1 oz "Top Gun" loads. Can usually find them for $350 or less. The main problem with these is that every batch from Turkey seems to be a different model number, the warranty is short ,and spare parts are pretty much unobtainable after the warranty runs out. I had an SDS Systems BP12 and loved it but it broke after about 600 rounds shooting steel plates (upper receiver cracked where the barrel nut threads join). Impossible to get it fixed.

Call me a sucker, but I got the ECX-500 when PSA had them on sale for $299, because I loved the way the SDS BP-12 handled and shot, hopefully the Panzer Arms is better made and won't self-destruct, a bit over 100 rounds through it already. I can hose down six plates in a rack at 10 yards faster than I can with my full sized 9mm pistol, and nearly as fast as with a .22lr. The same loads in my Mossberg 500 have a lot more perceived recoil.

Before you give up on what you all ready have, pick up a box of 7/8 oz 12 ga shot-shells, should be about equivalent to a typical 20 ga load and should give no issues in a pump, for knocking down steel plates of making tin cans "dance" they do the job just fine.
 
The only time my 870 ever hurt me was on an evening expedition to a local dairy for a starling shoot. As dusk approached, birds would start to fly into the barns to roost- singles and doubles which soon became a torrent of starlings. The shooting got pretty frantic, as in shoot, load, shoot, load until I ran out of ammo, which was 5 boxes of cheap sport loads. The next day I had a bruise on my cheek, telling me that the 870 Express stock didn't really fit me that well.
I'd never shot a shotgun 'til the barrel got too hot to touch...
 
foxmeadow said:
The only time my 870 ever hurt me was on an evening expedition to a local dairy for a starling shoot. As dusk approached, birds would start to fly into the barns to roost- singles and doubles which soon became a torrent of starlings. The shooting got pretty frantic, as in shoot, load, shoot, load until I ran out of ammo, which was 5 boxes of cheap sport loads. The next day I had a bruise on my cheek, telling me that the 870 Express stock didn't really fit me that well.
I'd never shot a shotgun 'til the barrel got too hot to touch...
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I've had more wing shooting practice on starlings than anything else. When I was young, up until my late 20s or so, there used to be starling roosts around the area every winter, somewhere within 5 miles or so. During the day they'd be out feeding on whatever grain or other things they could find, such as the leftovers from feeding outdoor livestock, or the leftovers in the fields from the fall harvests, and they provided unlimited shooting as there were hundreds of thousands in a roost. They were considered a nuisance for various reasons, and therefore they were about the only thing I'd shoot and kill for sport (I'm not sure I'd even do that today because I'm not sure they were doing any real harm, and what few we killed didn't change anything except those several hundred were dead, but it passed for an excuse for me back then). They were sometimes so thick when flying in and around the roost that you could just fire up into the swarm and as many as 12 or 15 would drop out with a single shot.
 
In our case, the dairy actually encouraged the practice. The birds roosted inside the barns by the thousands, crapping on EVERYTHING and actually boring through boards where they could sense a void behind them and build nests in the voids. I've done historic preservation work on 1880's building and have replaced a lot of crown molding that had to be custom made to match what the birds destroyed. After the shooting stopped when you couldn't see the birds outside, the noise inside the barns was pretty loud.
Since my 870 express was just an 870 express, I put a foam pad on the stock, raising my eye to where it should be...
 
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