Articles from NRA Shooting Sports, Single stage or progressive

Rule3 said:

A poll of the AMU’s handloading staff reveals that not one would willingly be without a single-stage press, despite owning at least one progressive."

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From this photo they seem to have at least two to teach new people with.

Rule3 said:

Those that advocate using a progressive one round at a time, well that is pretty much single stage

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That's the point. But the win-win is that when you graduate to a progressive, you already own it.

taliv said:

maybe it's just the presses. i have 2 dillon 1050s and even though i bought the extra tool head etc to load 6dasher on it, i don't like it and still load on single stage. i get better ammo and have more control with the single stage. even though i anneal with an AMP, i still get occasional bullets that seat way too hard or way too easy. when i load by hand i feel it and relegate that round to the practice ammo pile. no way to do that on a progressive. same for priming as i prefer to prime by hand to feel if a pocket has expanded or remains tight.

progressives weren't designed to put cases in and pull them out easily at various stages. they were designed to run through the case feeder and come out finished after 6 or 8 stations. i find it a pain to pull a round out after sizing and priming so i can run it through the giraud to trim/chamfer, and then stick it back in for seating. I'd need 2 or 3 separate progressives to do my reloading process effectively.

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Yeah, some good points. Some presses would lend themselves easier to use as a single stage than others. On my Dillons (650, 1100), it's easy to remove a shell at pretty much any station, although you shouldn't have to even if using them as a single stage. My old RCBS is a bit harder to do that with. And changing tool heads on the 1100 sucks compared to the 650/750. A LOT more expensive on the 1100 as well, if you're going to buy tool heads for it. So picking the right progressive to use as a single stage for a beginner would still take some forethought and research. But it is still a win-win to go that way, in my experience.

Trying to project an end need on a group of people we never met is the only real condescending position. There is a spectrum of equipment from Lee loader to dillion 1050. Every loaders needs are Ala carte and addressing someone's needs and financial limitations. We tend to upsell the need right out of the gate, and strait to a progressive is the final iteration of that upsale.

Rule3 said:

Yet, pretty much every reloader that has a progressive also has a single stage or several other presses.
Look at all the excitement over the new Lee Press. Why?? who needs it?
There is no loss in buying a single stage in the beginning, it will always be used.

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I would have never used one, and I'm glad I never bought one. The only person I know with a single stage is the reason I started with a progressive. He was a pheasant hunting buddy and would not go trap shooting with us because it took him so long to produce a box of 12ga shells with his single stage MEC.

The buy once cry once mantra is BS,
It is far easier to change calibers and primers
I still prefer my LCT to the LnLAP as I can change calibers in a few minutes
Did years of batch loading on my Lee single stage and cranked out a lot of ammo.

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I appreciate the "start with a single stage" thing too. Whatever works. Just saying there is more than one way to skin a cat.

I agree with the AMU and I don't think it's condescending at all. IMHO, you really need to learn the process one step at a time and I don't mean an afternoon's worth. Screw-ups can have major consequences. It doesn't have to be a single stage press, it can be a turret. In fact I'm glad I started on a turret instead of a single stage, because it does save a bit of time.

Now I am a lazy handloader. I do it to shoot, not because I enjoy it. I've spent a good bit of money to save as much time as possible. I have two RCBS turrets so I don't have to change the priming system. I have several turret heads so I can leave all my dies preset. I have two 650's so I don't have to change the priming system. I recently added a Lee turret for volume that is somewhere between the RCBS turret, that is better suited to batchwork and the full progressive. It kept me from having to buy a SDB or 550. So there is certainly a place for progressives but for me, they are different tools for different jobs. I have TWO Dillon 650's and they are for volume. Not for load development and not for small batches. They suck for both of those processes. I'm not going to load 50,000psi .44Mag or 65,000psi .454 loads on the Dillon either. Or do the load development for the 6.5Grendel I've done over the last two weeks.

My Brother and I started with a progressive press, we just put one case in it at a time and went through each step, one after the other, until a completed round dropped out. Then add another case to the machine. We probably did that longer than necessary but my Brother was pretty cautious and I was the “kid” even though we were both teenagers.

Pretty hard to not argue for at least one single stage or turret press though, unless you just stick to the beaten path of a proven recipe and components.

Rule3 said:

There is no loss in buying a single stage in the beginning, it will always be used.

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This is your own projection, and isn’t true for many, many reloaders.

Out of my own 30yrs reloading, I can recall around a decade or so of accumulative years where I’ve not had any use for a single stage press - and in several more of those years (and counting up), my only use for a single stage is hydroforming, which I expect you’d agree isn’t a common activity, especially among reloaders.

A turret press really should be the base standard, and volume reloaders are obviously advantaged by progressives. Single stage presses are a specialty game.

I could easily sell my redding big boss 2. I would be in tears if I had to sell my dillon 650.

I started reloading in the 1980's using a Lee 1000 progressive press. It was pretty easy to set up once I read the directions. I now have three of them including the first one I bought which is still functional and reliable.

Maybe 10 years ago I bought a Lee Turret press, a four hole one. It's sort of a cross between a progressive and a single stage. I now have two of those - I think most shooters would like them and I think I like them better than the progressive.

Tall said:

I started reloading in the 1980's using a Lee 1000 progressive press. It was pretty easy to set up once I read the directions. I now have three of them including the first one I bought which is still functional and reliable.

Maybe 10 years ago I bought a Lee Turret press, a four hole one. It's sort of a cross between a progressive and a single stage. I now have two of those - I think most shooters would like them and I think I like them better than the progressive.

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I have considered one as it's a single operation but removes all the extra handling...

I’m still not sure what was said that was so offensive by the AMU that every Progressive felt the need to go on defense. Who really cares what you do? The person being interviewed answered a question, answered it honestly, and without any malice. So much defensiveness… makes me think the people who are offended are extremely insecure.

I enjoy reloading, now using my Co-Ax. But while I suggest starting with a single stage, I cannot totally fault one starting with a progressive. Many (most) people learning to drive start out in something like a Toyota, auto trans, power steering, power brakes compact car. But I learned to drive in a 1948 International 1 ton PU with a 5 speed, straight cut gear manual transmission. I had a terrible time but once I mastered that truck, everything else seemed like "a walk in the park". I was totally inundated with things to think of, double clutching, no power steering nor brakes, trying to remember which slot was for what gear and the ride was terrible. I believe the same would apply to starting on a progressive press. But if one is fairly mechanically inclined and can deal with 4 or 5 things happening at once, and a good idea about the hows and whys of reloading, learning reloading can be done on a progressive press...

Several years ago I had a friend that shot competition with his 1911 and I helped him reload once. He owned a Dillion "auto everything" press and all I had to do was pull the handle and finished 45 ACP rounds dropped into a 30 cal ammo can. I could have been yanking on a slot machine or churning butter as I felt waaay removed from reloading. Not for me...

mdi said:

I enjoy reloading, now using my Co-Ax. But while I suggest starting with a single stage, I cannot totally fault one starting with a progressive. Many (most) people learning to drive start out in something like a Toyota, auto trans, power steering, power brakes compact car. But I learned to drive in a 1948 International 1 ton PU with a 5 speed, straight cut gear manual transmission. I had a terrible time but once I mastered that truck, everything else seemed like "a walk in the park". I was totally inundated with things to think of, double clutching, no power steering nor brakes, trying to remember which slot was for what gear and the ride was terrible. I believe the same would apply to starting on a progressive press. But if one is fairly mechanically inclined and can deal with 4 or 5 things happening at once, and a good idea about the hows and whys of reloading, learning reloading can be done...

Several years ago I had a friend that shot competition with his 1911 and I helped him reload once or twice. He owned a Dillion "auto everything" press and all I had to do was pull the handle and finished 45 ACP rounds dropped into a 30 cal ammo can. I could have been yanking on a slot machine or churning butter as I felt waaay removed from reloading. Not for me...

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I learned to drive in a Nash Rambler station wagon with a three-on-the-tree. I thought it was the bees knees until I got the chance to drive a European sport car - not mine! - and got to experience a floor shift. I also learned to drive a tractor but after I showed I could handle a car. Cars are cheap; tractors are $$$$$!
I wouldn’t expect anyone else to learn to drive like I did though. Why would they? Most kids these days learn to drive using simulators and video games. Very advanced technology. We see how well that’s working out…

mdi said:

I enjoy reloading, now using my Co-Ax. But while I suggest starting with a single stage, I cannot totally fault one starting with a progressive. Many (most) people learning to drive start out in something like a Toyota, auto trans, power steering, power brakes compact car. But I learned to drive in a 1948 International 1 ton PU with a 5 speed, straight cut gear manual transmission. I had a terrible time but once I mastered that truck, everything else seemed like "a walk in the park". I was totally inundated with things to think of, double clutching, no power steering nor brakes, trying to remember which slot was for what gear and the ride was terrible. I believe the same would apply to starting on a progressive press. But if one is fairly mechanically inclined and can deal with 4 or 5 things happening at once, and a good idea about the hows and whys of reloading, learning reloading can be done on a progressive press...

Several years ago I had a friend that shot competition with his 1911 and I helped him reload once. He owned a Dillion "auto everything" press and all I had to do was pull the handle and finished 45 ACP rounds dropped into a 30 cal ammo can. I could have been yanking on a slot machine or churning butter as I felt waaay removed from reloading. Not for me...

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Part of what's probably inferred but not said it that progressives are the only choice for people who don't enjoy the process. Why spend a second more doing something you dread.

AJC1 said:

Part of what's probably inferred but not said it that progressives are the only choice for people who don't enjoy the process. Why spend a second more doing something you dread.

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Good point.

Rule3 said:

It is amazing how many "infantile newbies" buy single stage presses. RCMS, Hornady. Lee, Foster all sure sell a boat load of them

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Have you considered these newbies buy the wrong gear for their needs because of bad advice like your thread and the SSUSA article it’s praising?

Varminterror said:

A turret press really should be the base standard, and volume reloaders are obviously advantaged by progressives. Single stage presses are a specialty game.

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Please explain, I have not used a turret. Do you turn the turret a notch at a time until a round is finished or do you batch process and the turret is just where the unused dies live, saving you having to screw them in and out?

Not claiming any general superiority of tools and techniques but as another station heard from...

I have always gotten by with a single stage - 1971 Rockchucker, if you didn't have RCBS in those days, you just weren't With It - for rifle ammo, everything is shot carefully at a target so I don't need the volume of a progressive although I see all manner of high round count rifle shooting going on.


My puzzlement is how many people are using methods and equipment outside the progressive loader, increasing the number of "touches" to turn out a round. There are even "prep presses" from Dillon and Lee. Speaking as a bulk pistol loader on progressives, I do not find a need to decap and tumble to get the primer pocket clean. I sure don't hand prime, but many do, leaving the progressive nothing to do but size, charge powder, and seat a bullet.

My FLG has instructed a number of pistol shooters to load with nothing but a progressive on the 'one round at a time until you know what is going on at each station' system.

Getting through the panicdemic and dealing with oddities of the "supply chain" have led me to do things I normally wouldn't.

Frex, I got in some soft slick plated .45 bullets and experienced setback against the feed ramp. Ammo already loaded required canneluring on the single stage to secure the bullets. I finished the lot with an undersize sizing die which increased handle effort on the 1050 to the point that I surrendered and pre sized brass for a while. Now back to full progressive with coated bullets that stay put.

I felt I had to get some use out of accumulated accursed small primer .45 brass, so I put the .45 bits on my regular 550 9mm loader. All I had was an old RCBS carbide die with NO mouth radius and alignment from shellplate to die was rare. So I pre-sized them, too.

A hammer fired 9mm will shoot small rifle primers but when I went to use up some CCI BR4s left over from F class days, those suckers were all but impossible to seat. I presume they are in magnum cups, as regular CCI 400s load normally. Only hand priming I have done in modern times but I did it with a Lee Ram Prime which really socked them in there.

Rule3 said:

Those that advocate using a progressive one round at a time, well that is pretty much single stage

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It is, but it isn’t.

I don’t have to change dies between steps and I can process brass a lot faster.

But let’s assume that running a progressive one round at a time is the same as a single stage. Why recommend a single stage to a new reloader then?

GeoDudeFlorida said:

I’m still not sure what was said that was so offensive by the AMU that every Progressive felt the need to go on defense. Who really cares what you do? The person being interviewed answered a question, answered it honestly, and without any malice. So much defensiveness… makes me think the people who are offended are extremely insecure.

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I think you’re reading more emotion into the responses than is actually there

BTW; One major part of learning to reload is die adjustment. Necessary for getting good handloads thar chamber and fire without problems. Also essential for troubleshooting. Can't get that from "set it and forget it" as in a turret or progressive. Swapping dies every step in a single stage will insure learning to properly adjust dies (repetition)...

mdi said:

BTW; One major part of learning to reload is die adjustment. Necessary for getting good handloads thar chamber and fire without problems. Also essential for troubleshooting. Can't get that from "set it and forget it" as in a turret or progressive. Swapping dies every step in a single stage will insure learning to properly adjust dies (repetition)...

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Your missing the guys that just buy another press when they add another cartridge

mdi said:

Swapping dies every step in a single stage will insure learning to properly adjust dies (repetition)...

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The main thing I learn if I have to adjust a die because the lock ring didn't hold, is what my current obscene vocabulary is.

Thinking of visiting the screw company for some thin and narrow 7/8" lock washers for the progressives.