Lee Pro 6000 unboxing and testing for OAL consistency

Gillie Dog said:
Don't hold you breath on that one......... GD
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Probably, but Lee seems to be listening more lately..... Personally I think the reloading world missed out when they mostly ignored RCBS's APS strip system. It wasn't perfect, but only because RCBS doesn't develop and finese the products they have. What comes out of the starting gate is what you get. Then they move on to the next thing instead of tweaking and developing further what they have. I do know they were safer by far than any other priming system out there. I heard of ONE accidental explosion.....2 whole primers in a strip went off. Beats a whole tube or tray at a time where primers touch each other.
 
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NOTE: Listing of step-by-step press set up, operation, enhanced practice for greater consistency and troubleshooting on this post - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-oal-consistency.911743/page-12#post-12476131
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9mmepiphany said:
GW Staar said:
I did prime a few 9mm cases to test Lee's priming ability. Have to say I was impressed with the repeating below flush seating.
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I was too.

Ran 150 LPP last night for a match tomorrow ... primers (Federal) were seated uniformly below flush
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Nice. Your experience reflect mine - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ing-for-oal-consistency.911743/#post-12442618
  • Light push on the ram lever seated CCI SP to .002" below flush
  • Firm push on the ram lever seated CCI SP to .004" below flush
  • Light push on the ram lever seated S&B/PMC SP primers to flush
  • Firm push on the ram lever seated S&B/PMC SP primers to .003" below flush
  • Extra firm push on the ram lever seated PMC SP primer to .005" below flush
CCI SP seated to .004" below flush in FC case, S&B SP seated to .003" below flush in R-P case, PMC SP seated to .005" below flush in WIN case, PMC seated to .003" below flush in Blazer/R-P cases

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GW Staar said:
Gillie Dog said:
Don't hold you breath on that one
Click to expand...
but Lee seems to be listen more lately
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Yes, with SPP/Pro 6000 product launch, Lee Precision has demonstrated prompt and effective revisions/updates identified during product launch.

This may reflect top leadership/management focus shift that may surprise us.
 
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LiveLife said:
Yes, doing a lot of "Testing" on the new press. :)

Gearing up to do some Auto Drum powder drop consistency test.


Really, I am awake now that I finished my morning coffee. :D
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I think I am the cause of the test messages, I subscribed to this thread and the link I was receiving in the email was not working correctly. A period was left out after WWW in the address in the link.

I have a Lee Six Pack Pro (Actually have 2) and was looking for a good discussion on the new press from users. I am primarily loading 10mm and 357 Sig. I had experienced many of the same start up problems as you and others have and was looking for discussions of the problems. I was having problems with OAL vacations and appreciate your work. I had already suspected the sizing die was causing some of the problems and had backed off from Lee's recommended contact plus 1/3 round and that helped. I use a Lee Factory Crimp die and discovered that die was also causing problems, so I started backing off on it and that also helped. I do not sort brass right now and from what I read on your discussion I am now about as good as I am going to get without sorting brass.

Will try to increase my thread count.
 
LiveLife said:
OK, OK ... will go do more test on the SPP/Pro 6000
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Your the Best!!! Thanks for all your Testing!!! We all, appreciate your hard work and everyone's participation here!!! It helps all of us!!!

God Bless and Merry Christmas!!! Thanks Again!!!
 
NOTE: Listing of step-by-step press set up, operation, enhanced practice for greater consistency and troubleshooting on this post - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-oal-consistency.911743/page-12#post-12476131
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curlysir said:
I do not sort brass right now and from what I read on your discussion I am now about as good as I am going to get without sorting brass.
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Yes, good point.

Bullseye match shooters (Including my seasoned bullseye match shooting mentor) have demonstrated sorting brass helps with reducing group size/flyers as well documented in this thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-oal-consistency.911743/page-3#post-12446468

In different OAL variance and myth busting threads, I illustrated there are several reloading variables that affect OAL variance. Some of these variables we are well aware of and few of these not readily so.

RashQuestion said:
Thanks for all your Testing!!! We all, appreciate your hard work and everyone's participation here!!! It helps all of us!!!
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We are just a big bunch of "open source" reloaders engaged in real-time "public domain" problem identification, brainstorming and examination of solution options to arrive at resolutions using root-cause-analysis with field trials/testing and errors.

I think it's one of best problem solving mechanisms.
 
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LiveLife said:
Yes, doing a lot of "Testing" on the new press. :)

Gearing up to do some Auto Drum powder drop consistency test.


Really, I am awake now that I finished my morning coffee. :D

OK, OK ... will go do more test on the SPP/Pro 6000. :p
Click to expand...

I am getting +/- .1 grain with my Auto Drum.

If SPP is small pistol primer, I am having problems with the small primer getting dislodged from the pin and jamming up things when I am at the end of a run and cases are not being primed. When loading and all stations are full I am having very few problems. I Do not have the same problem with large primers.

One thing I have learned with this press is that you have to go FULL strokes at all time , up and down, or you will have problems. Most of the problem I have encountered have been from me short stroking or when I pause and forget which direction I was going, up or down.

Did have problems with powder gumming up the pin, but that was due to primers not loading. Once again - SHORT stroke.
 
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NOTE: Listing of step-by-step press set up, operation, enhanced practice for greater consistency and troubleshooting on this post - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-oal-consistency.911743/page-12#post-12476131
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curlysir said:
One thing I have learned with this press is that you have to go FULL strokes at all time , up and down, or you will have problems. Most of the problem I have encountered have been from me short stroking or when I pause and forget which direction I was going, up or down.
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Yes, press was designed to accommodate even longer magnum rifle cartridges and full ram lever strokes are required for proper press operations from staging primers in the double-stack chute/trough, picking up primers, inserting primer guide fully into station #2, seating primers to slightly below flush.

Short stroking of ram lever will affect these operations from being carried out properly.

curlysir said:
Did have problems with powder gumming up the pin, but that was due to primers not loading. Once again - SHORT stroke.
Click to expand...
And make sure the priming rod/pin moves up and down freely and not rubbing/binding in the sleeve which can affect primer guide from entering station #2 freely/fully.

Also, you can eliminate powder falling on priming rod/pin sleeve by moving powder charging to station #3/#4.

curlysir said:
I am having problems with the small primer getting dislodged from the pin and jamming up things when I am at the end of a run and cases are not being primed. When loading and all stations are full I am having very few problems. I Do not have the same problem with large primers.
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Check the tip of the priming rod/pin and see if it has sharp edge. If so, contact Lee Precision for replacement with rounded tip rod/pin shown on the left in the picture.

index.php
 
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LiveLife said:
NOTE: Listing of step-by-step press set up, operation, enhanced practice for greater consistency and troubleshooting on this post - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-oal-consistency.911743/page-9#post-12471889
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Yes, press was designed to accommodate even longer magnum rifle cartridges and full ram lever strokes are required for proper press operations from staging primers in the double-stack chute/trough, picking up primers, inserting primer guide fully into station #2, seating primers to slightly below flush.

Short stroking of ram lever will affect these operations from being carried out properly.


And make sure the priming rod/pin moves up and down freely and not rubbing/binding in the sleeve which can affect primer guide from entering station #2 freely/fully.

Also, you can eliminate powder falling on priming rod/pin sleeve by moving powder charging to station #3/#4.


Check the tip of the priming rod/pin and see if it has sharp edge. If so, contact Lee Precision for replacement with rounded tip rod/pin shown on the left in the picture.

index.php
Click to expand...

Only Problem with moving powder charging is that you lose a station. I want all 6 stations, I use a RCBS Lock-Out in station 3 and a Mini Mr. Bulletfeeder in station 4, I have very little if any powder falling on primer now that I am aware of what was happening. I now check the pin for free moving and blow air over the top of the shell plate and in all the opening on a regular basis. I have not had the problem recently.

On the priming rod/pin, I was aware of the difference as I received a pin recently from Lee and noticed the rounded edges, I was having a problem with the pin catching on the bottom of the shell plate and this pin has helped. the early spares I purchases are like the two on the right. The rounded edges do help.
 
Todays report on OAL.

103 pieces of 40 S&W random range brass run. Decapped and SS washed/cleaned a long time ago. Xtreme plated 165gr RNFP. CCI SPP

OAL was +-0.003 for the second time with these range brass cases run. Will probably stop measuring every cartridge soon.

100% prime, no problems. But some cases prime so easy all you feel is ram travel stopping, most cases you feel the seating process take place. Random measured ones were 0.002 to 0.004 below flush.

4 cases slid back out of shell plate with retraction of case slider or were not all the way in, will have to watch that one.

And so it goes.....

GD
 
Updated press with new long primer slider and replaced 3d small case retainer with molded production one.
Also moved the handle 2 clicks clockwise. Feels more natural and runs a little smoother now.
Loaded 50 223 with H335, topped with 55gr FMJBT bullets. No powder spills or primer problems.

Station one 380 fcd with guts removed
Station two. Auto Drum
Station Three Powder Cop
Station Four reserved for bullet feeder
Station Five Bullet Seat
Station Six FCD
 
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2 Horse said:
Updated press with new long primer slider and replaced 3d small case retainer with molded production one. Runs a little smoother now.
Loaded 50 223 with H335, topped with 55gr fmjbt bullets. No powder spills or primer problems.

Station one 380 fcd with guts remover
Station two. Auto Drum
Station Three Powder Cop
Station Four reserved for bullet feeder
Station Five Bullet Seat
Station Six FCD
Click to expand...

Did you have any problems with the spring on the primer slide contacting the metal tabs on the carrier cover with the new primer slide? When I installed mine I had to squeeze the hook on the spring or it would hang up on the tabs.
 
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curlysir said:
Did you have any problems with the spring on the primer slide contacting the metal tabs on the carrier cove with the new primer slide? When I installed mine I had to squeeze the hook on the spring or it would hang up on the tabs.
Click to expand...

Had to squeeze mine too. Didn’t really hit but was to close for my liking.
 
curlysir said:
I am getting +/- .1 grain with my Auto Drum.
Click to expand...

This was not a concern of mine really. I have one of the first Auto Drums with the red hopper and it's been pretty good sitting on my classic turret. Now I have two. When I set up this press I just pulled the drum from my other measure and was all set for Sport Pistol and 9mm :) They are typically +/- .1 grain, and usually right on. Close enough for me and what its for.

As with others most any issue I have had has been operator error. Full strokes are needed. I do not feel the primer being seated as well as I do on my turret either but again I think that is a matter of getting used to the press. Really my issues have been minimal so far. I'll probably run another 100-200 later this week.
 
UPDATE: Installing updated production press parts, email replies/clarifications back from Lee Precision, and beta testing new inline bullet feeder.

Part 1 - Spent the day installing updated production press parts Lee Precision sent (Gray colored longer primer slider with smaller spring end and gray colored hard plastic case retainer ring).

Shorter black primer slider is the old part that was used with the black hold down piece on the left (Which still works fine). Longer gray primer slider eliminates the need for the hold down piece. (Replacement tip - I found if I flip the top carrier cover upside down, primer slider would pull straight out without having to pull up over the bump in the channel)

Notice new smaller spring end on the right that won't contact/snag the four hold down tabs of primer channel.

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Longer gray primer slider in the extended position (No spring tension) with primer guide ready to pick up a primer

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Longer gray primer slider in pulled in position (Under spring tension with primer guide fully inserted into station #2) showing longer part now held by four tabs of primer slider channel/trough

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Top carrier cover with new gray primer slider, primer spring with smaller end and gray case retainer ring. As expected, new longer primer slider cycled freely without any hesitation.

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Old black case retainer ring compared to new gray hard plastic retainer ring

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Close up showing greater detail

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Part 2 - Email replies from Lee Precision
Gillie Dog said:
LiveLife said:
I wonder how Lee torqued the ram hex set bolt during assembly?
Click to expand...
I would hope they have made a tool/jig they just clamp the two parts in that sets alignment and then tighten the set bolt.

Recommended method to do it in the field would be good information.
Click to expand...
LiveLife said:
I sent Lee an email. :)
Click to expand...
I got an email reply from Calvin and he advised against removing the carrier core from the ram as it is torqued at 80 ft/lbs at the factory using "very precise alignment process". (Double the 40 ft/lbs used for ABLP carrier core)

11/28/2022

John,

I would strongly advise against removing the carrier core from the ram. This is a very precise alignment process that has taken months for us to perfect in the assembly process.​

To directly answer your question, 80 ft/lbs is required to secure the ram to the carrier core. If this is even considered it must be completely on the alignment pin.

Calvin Katzfey
Lee Precision​

So I am going to update the listing of press operations and disassembly/reassembly steps with following warning:

WARNING: DO NOT remove carrier core from the ram as 80 ft/lbs is required to secure the core to the ram with very precise alignment. Instead, follow this Lee Precision video on removing carrier core and ram as a single unit.​

FYI, just like ABLP, if top press head is removed, during reassembly, full shellplate with cases should be pushed into the dies before tightening the three hex bolts to align the shellplate with the dies.

index.php



As to some on different forums and videos showing priming rod/pin sticking, especially with powder leaking down the priming rod/pin sleeve hole, this was Calvin's reply:

This is concerning and I am still trying to nail down a real cause. Are this many people spilling enough powder to jam up the priming pin? Is there a larger underlying issue that we are unable replicate right now? This is to be determined and we are working to see if we can duplicate this experience.
​
Since my initial curiosity with SPP/Pro 6000 was on finished OAL consistency, due to offset ram mounted under station #1, I intuitively installed 9mm seat/taper crimp die in station #6 and powder through expander in station #5 which would eliminate powder going down priming rod/pin sleeve hole. I will post an update after I do some troubleshooting and/when I hear back from Calvin on this issue.

index.php



As to priming rod/pin sticking in the primer pocket when depriming only, Calvin confirmed production priming rod/pin end that is rounded/radiused with diameter that won't stick in the primer pockets. I deprimed several cases of different headstamp brass and priming rod/pin did not stick inside primer pockets.

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Part 3 - Beta testing new inline bullet feeder with rotary magazine in a new thread - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-rotary-magazine-for-lee-spp-pro-6000.913099/

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NOTE: Please keep in mind that product operation and update parts information of this newly launched press is dynamic and changing with pre/early production parts; therefore, presses with different mix of production run parts may exist. While I attempt to stay current and be accurate as possible, do realize that information posted on this thread are based on my personal experience with my personal press and parts that have been clarified with contact with Lee Precision. Parts design/update/production runs/lots can vary and influence how they perform in your press.

FYI: Consider there may exist different, conflicting, incorrect or misinformation posted on internet forums.

Press Set Up:
New Priming System:
Press Disassembly and Reassembly:
Fine tuning press operation for consistency:
Troubleshooting and Solutions:
Lee Precision Update Parts:
 
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LiveLife said:
John,

I would strongly advise against removing the carrier core from the ram. This is a very precise alignment process that has taken months for us to perfect in the assembly process.
To directly answer your question, 80 ft/lbs is required to secure the ram to the carrier core. If this is even considered it must be completely on the alignment pin.

Calvin Katzfey
Lee Precision
Click to expand...

So that's probably what happened to mine. It was out of alignment after I had to put the carrier back on, from when it fell off the ram because the bolt wasn't tightened at Lee while being assembled.
I also didn't tighten it tight enough even though I cranked it in there. 80 ft/lbs is wheel lug nut tight. That's a lot and I don't know if the alignment pin will take that without ruining the hole in the base it's mounted in. I know the carrier pulled partially off again until I tightened it the second time.

I'll wait until Lee gets all their modifications done to the press and aren't rushing these presses to market, which is what I feel happened to mine, and maybe I'll look at it again in about 6 months to a year.
Until then, I'm glad Lee is opening up more toward us and working with LiveLife to the problems worked out of this press.
It gives me more confidence in trying this press again later on.

Edit to add: I wrote Lee a letter with the same pictures I put in this thread with the carrier off the ram and put it in the box. I listed everything that happened to it. That way they will know to re-adjust it and retighten the carrier on the ram.
 
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@LiveLife would you recommend contacting Lee to get the longer primer slider and the new retainer ring ? The changes in the primer slider are obvious, but what are the differences in the retainer ring ? I seem to be running ok with the primer slider and cap.

-Jeff
 
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Gillie Dog said:
I would hope they have made a tool/jig they just clamp the two parts in that sets alignment and then tighten the set bolt.

Recommended method to do it in the field would be good information.

GD
Click to expand...
LiveLife said:
I got an email reply from Calvin and he advised against removing the carrier core from the ram as it is torqued at 80 ft/lbs at the factory using "very precise alignment process". (Double the 40 ft/lbs used for ABLP carrier core)

11/28/2022

John,

I would strongly advise against removing the carrier core from the ram. This is a very precise alignment process that has taken months for us to perfect in the assembly process.
To directly answer your question, 80 ft/lbs is required to secure the ram to the carrier core. If this is even considered it must be completely on the alignment pin.

Calvin Katzfey
Lee Precision​
Click to expand...

Yes, that is an understandable part of the assembly of these pieces and the need for alignment is paramount. I am sure it was a necessary evil to address it properly for production assembly of the press. Maybe they are doing it in/on a press base set up for such by his response, but it is of little consequence since field removal of core is never needed and it will be a "permanent" install at the factory which has set up for it.

Thanks

GD​
 
Okay I got all the dies set up and passed 3 9mm through the system.....perfect. But mines not all Lee accessories.....have two RCBS products because I had them. Here's the die setup:
1. Lee 9mm Sizer
2. RCBS Powder Measure with powder-thru "M" style expander
3. RCBS Lock Out Powder Cop
4. 3D printed bullet feeder die and bullet collator
5. Lee 9mm Seater
6 Lee 9mm Crimper

The quick video: Look at it full screen so you can see the details.



I used Unique....therefore powder is high in the case.....did not experience spillage, but then this is one cartridge done....carefully? ;)

Notice how straight and true the bullet is placed (and stays). On the second run through I stopped after the bullet was fed, before seating and removed it....turned it upside down and shook. Bullet did not come out. That's what an "M" style die is for. Hope Lee is successful with their powder through expander with their new "M" feature. It's way worth it not to have bullets tilting after the feeder and going to the seater in that state..
 
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LiveLife said:
Part 2 - Email replies from Lee Precision

As to some on different forums and videos showing priming rod/pin sticking, especially with powder leaking down the priming rod/pin sleeve hole, this was Calvin's reply:

This is concerning and I am still trying to nail down a real cause. Are this many people spilling enough powder to jam up the priming pin? Is there a larger underlying issue that we are unable replicate right now? This is to be determined and we are working to see if we can duplicate this experience.
​
Since my initial curiosity with SPP/Pro 6000 was on finished OAL consistency, due to offset ram mounted under station #1, I intuitively installed 9mm seat/taper crimp die in station #6 and powder through expander in station #5 which would eliminate powder going down priming rod/pin sleeve hole. I will post an update after I do some troubleshooting and/when I hear back from Calvin on this issue.

As to priming rod/pin sticking in the primer pocket when depriming only, Calvin confirmed production priming rod/pin end that is rounded/radiused with diameter that won't stick in the primer pockets. I deprimed several cases of different headstamp brass and priming rod/pin did not stick inside primer pockets.
Click to expand...

My press did not have the rounded/radiused end and I do believe that was part of the problem I was having with the pin sticking. I did not know about the different pin until I checked one of the new pins I had received in a parts order and compared it to my old pin and I could see and feel the difference. It would be nice if Lee would post a list of parts that they have updated on their site. A lot of people don't know about the newer parts.
 
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