Copper bullets

What do you mean by hard on barrels?

Use the Barnes. 025 test for monos. JRB did a video and it proved very effective with little use of components.

I shoot steel core bullets sometimes in my 30.06 (golden bear) and Mosin the tula ammo. Have not noticed any wear.

mshootnit said:

Do you guys load a bunch of copper bullets such as Barnes or Hornady CRX etc. ? If so where do you like to seat them off the lands, and have you noticed them being hard on barrels?

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Gilding metal bullets (jacketed bullets) are mostly copper, are they hard on bbls.?? Copper is softer than steel.

DM

Reality check, nothing has a bigger impact on barrel life than rate of fire. This statement is constrained to normal loadings and a fixed cartridge not comparing 223 to 257 Weatherby.

CoalCrackerAl said:

I shoot steel core bullets sometimes in my 30.06 (golden bear) and Mosin the tula ammo. Have not noticed any wear.

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I'm pretty sure that neither Bear nor Tula has imported anything steel cored), at least in the last 30 years).

Steel jacketed yes, but Lake City, Winchester and Norma are also guilty of selling that...

mshootnit said:

Do you guys load a bunch of copper bullets such as Barnes or Hornady CRX etc. ? If so where do you like to seat them off the lands, and have you noticed them being hard on barrels?

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I never have. Just never had the need or desire.

Way way back a friend of mine locked up a Browning Safari Grade 264 Winchester Magnum using Barnes bullets. We never found the reason. The powder and charge weights were correct, the bullets were not seated long, everything looked to be correct. Except for having to hammer the bolt open.

Maybe Tula and Golden bear have Steel jacket under the copper then? They do stick to a magnet. I'll have to cut one open.

.025 is a good starting place with Barnes.

Prior to this knowledge, 25 years ago I developed loads for both the .338 WM and .280 Rem with Barnes set near the lands. The .338 load was more accurate than it’s previous load with Nosler Partitions, 1.5”. This was plenty good for it’s intended use, elk inside 400 yards. The .280 shot right at 1”.

When I developed a Barnes load for my wife’s 7-08, I’d read about setting them back. Without checking my data, I know that load is at least .025 off the lands. And it’s very accurate but that gun seems to shoot every 139/140 grain bullet I’ve tried with it, very accurately.

Just recently, I’ve been working with my 22-250. I tried 70 grain TSXs and I couldn’t get them to stabilize. Then 62 grain TSXs. I got them sub 1” at 100. But at 200 they really opened up, again I believe to lack of stabilization. Gun shoots 3 60 grain Vmaxs in the same hole at 200 yards so there was a level of frustration it wouldn’t stabilize the 62 grain Barnes. Now I’m working with the 55 grain Barnes TSX in that gun. Initial test was promising. Waiting for further testing after Xmas because I believe my replacement chronograph is under the tree.

mshootnit said:

Well no, but copper jacket bullets have soft lead underneath so they can swage. Copper does not. Hence the question. I tbink most agree copper is not hard on the bore though

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WAAAY before most of us here were alive, a test was made to see how much a jacketed bullet wears bbls..

High pressure clean air was used to send bullets down a bbl., and after 80,000 bullets and the bbl. was still like new, the test was stopped.

DM

I haven't noticed abnormal wear with lead free bullets - but they are expensive enough that I don't use them for casual purposes.

I also have not experimented with seating depth, because frankly, these bullets seem much more likely to cause weird pressure spikes and as a result I'm kind of scared of them. I tend to treat the loading of them much as I do the loading of shotshells: I follow the recipe to the letter.

I regularly load Barnes TTSX. My rifles like .020 off the lands (YMMV). They are used for hunting, so not too much concern regarding barrel wear from my personal perspective. For what it’s worth, the results are devastating and they are very accurate.

.38 Special said:

I haven't noticed abnormal wear with lead free bullets - but they are expensive enough that I don't use them for casual purposes.

I also have not experimented with seating depth, because frankly, these bullets seem much more likely to cause weird pressure spikes and as a result I'm kind of scared of them. I tend to treat the loading of them much as I do the loading of shotshells: I follow the recipe to the letter.

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If you follow the recipe to the letter, you are seating them deeper than my above post. I’m certain I’m well below published (GRT) pressure due to the increased OAL.

mshootnit said:

I am sure they are nasty. I know they really dig into a steel plate.

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If you’re shooting them at steel plates for fun, you have more money to burn than me. Those suckers are expensive! I load, sight in, and practice with a standard cup and core. Then switch to TTSX for the hunting season after double checking my zero. I’ve rarely had to make an adjustment when switching between the two.

mshootnit said:

And that is documented somewhere I assume where it can be referenced?

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I'm sure it is, I read about it MANY years ago, not sure where, maybe in one of Townsend Whelens books?

It was common info long ago...

DM

mshootnit said:

one of the copper bullet companies i reached out to told me they thought their bullets were actually easier on bores than cup and core

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The copper is softer so that makes a bunch of sense. I’ve had barrels that getting the copper out was a real chore. They have a reputation for leaving more copper residue that copper jacketed lead core bullets. That alone tells me they are softer.

Both of the barrels that get copper fouling real bad, still shoot Barnes good.

Since I started using a “break in” process on new barrels, I haven’t had a problem.

kalielkslayer said:

The copper is softer so that makes a bunch of sense. I’ve had barrels that getting the copper out was a real chore. They have a reputation for leaving more copper residue that copper jacketed lead core bullets. That alone tells me they are softer.

Both of the barrels that get copper fouling real bad, still shoot Barnes good.

Since I started using a “break in” process on new barrels, I haven’t had a problem.

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I’ve cut pure copper for satellite innards - cooling and insulation parts, mostly but some electrical bridges, too - and it is STICKY STUFF! Sticks to high-speed steel cutters like tar on Brehr Rabbit. We had to invent a new coolant and lard-soap-based lubricant to complete a USAF satellite project. The stuff they’re using for bullets is not pure copper, it’s an alloy - probably with lead, like a 1914x alloy, but that is just a WAG - and it’s not nearly as sticky as pure. I think the exact alloys are probably going to be proprietary but it could be a common metal too. I haven’t checked into the exact properties closely.