Pills, heads, freedom seeds, boolits, etc. I'm not a drug dealer trying to change the meaning of words to evade the police.Do you read a post to try and understand, or do you read a post to find fault.... I'm probably a large offender of poor communication, but I try and be helpful. Just don't call bullets pills.
Cartridge vs. Caliber
- Thread starter film495
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But if someone says I bought a 308 you have a 99% understanding it's a 308 Win in a Remington rifle. I'll usually ask what model rifle.I think you meant .308 Winchester (not ".308 Remington") didn't you? My .308 Norma Mag is also .308 caliber, and ballistically it's almost identical to the .300 Win Mag.
Everyone I know who has a 308 Norma mag or 300 H&H adds the Norma or H&H to the description because it's critical.
If they say I bought a 300. And they don't include AR in the description. I ask which 300. If they say I bought an AR in 300. I assume it's in a 300 BO. Unless they are a gun nut. But a gun nut would say I bought a ______ AR in 300 WM with____ trigger, and a ____ scope, etc.
GeoDudeFlorida
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If I recall correctly, Taffin wrote the article because of a disagreement in terminology exactly like what the OP describes. Yes, cartridge designation vs caliber does matter. It really doesn’t help when some manufacturers decide to put incorrect scroll marks on barrels or headstamp brass using made up names. But it’s been happening a real long time. I give you the .32H&R - the black powder cartridge which predates the .32S&W Long by about twenty years but because H&R, I-J, F&W through-bored their cylinders they will chamber the .32 Long. It’s always tough when someone brings me an old top-break revolver and a box of .32 Long they picked up at a flea market or garage sale and (because I’m “a gun guy”) ask if they got a good deal. I gave up trying to explain that the gun was made for a cartridge that has been discontinued since before WW1 and what they got is not right - but won’t blow their hand off either (probably). Just nod and smile and tell them it’s not meant to be a target gun so don’t expect a whole lot.
higgite
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You can have a 45 caliber cartridge, but I’ve never heard of a 45 cartridge caliber. Why not just call caliber caliber and cartridge cartridge? Caliber is a system of measurement, like foot in a foot-long hotdog. Cartridge is an object, like hotdog in a foot-long hotdog. Harrumph! ymmv
.308 Norma
Member
That's the truth, for sure! Another example (around these parts anyway) is when someone says they have a "7mm." Nowadays that almost always means they have a 7mm Remington Magnum. However, in my youth (before anyone had even heard of the 7mm Remington Magnum) when someone said they had a 7mm, they meant they had a 7mm Mauser.
Then there was the time back in the '80s when I was telling a guy I knew at work that I had just bought my wife a 7mm-08 for her birthday. His response - "Now, what's the difference between a 7mm-08 and a regular 7mm?"
Of course, there's always those folks that shoot 7mm Weatherby Mags, and even a few that shoot 7mm Shooting Times Westerners or some flavor of "Short" 7mm Magnum. But those guys almost always add the words "Weatherby" or "Shooting Times Westerner" or "Short Magnum" to their descriptions because, like you said, "it's critical."
Oh, and I also have a XP-100 chambered for the 7mm IHMSA (International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Association). I've gotten a lot more than one quizzical look from "regular" 7mm guys when I told them I have a 7mm IHMSA - especially when I tell them it's a "pistol."
AJC1
Member
You left out the 7mm Watters, the contender guys feel slighted.That's the truth, for sure! Another example (around these parts anyway) is when someone says they have a "7mm." Nowadays that almost always means they have a 7mm Remington Magnum. However, in my youth (before anyone had even heard of the 7mm Remington Magnum) when someone said they had a 7mm, they meant they had a 7mm Mauser.
Then there was the time back in the '80s when I was telling a guy I knew at work that I had just bought my wife a 7mm-08 for her birthday. His response - "Now, what's the difference between a 7mm-08 and a regular 7mm?"
Of course, there's always those folks that shoot 7mm Weatherby Mags, and even a few that shoot 7mm Shooting Times Westerners or some flavor of "Short" 7mm Magnum. But those guys almost always add the words "Weatherby" or "Shooting Times Westerner" or "Short Magnum" to their descriptions because, like you said, "it's critical."
Oh, and I also have a XP-100 chambered for the 7mm IHMSA (International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Association). I've gotten a lot more than one quizzical look from "regular" 7mm guys when I told them I have a 7mm IHMSA - especially when I tell them it's a "pistol."
.308 Norma
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Sorry, contender guys.You left out the 7mm Watters, the contender guys feel slighted.
SingleActionAndrew
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A big part of this I believe is S&W's fault for not renaming the old 38 S&W cartridge. The original heeled bullet (like a 22lr) design was about 38 hundredths of an inch. But then they dropped the heel and not the name. Presumably military and police didn't want a "35" because it sounds like a downgrade at face value. And so the 35 caliber cartridges referred to 38 lived on. Why buy a 35 super when you could get a 38 special?
They still do it. 460S&W magnum is a 45 caliber cartridge. Just call it 45 S&W super mag or something. Marketing.
They still do it. 460S&W magnum is a 45 caliber cartridge. Just call it 45 S&W super mag or something. Marketing.
LimaCharlie
Member.
Whatever
Soonerpesek
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Yes, it is a little misleading/confusing, but.................................................
there is already a 445Super Mag (although it is a .429/.430 caliber), a 45 Super, and a 45 Win Mag..................................
GeoDudeFlorida
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It’s okay. That’s actually one of the barrels I never bought.Sorry, contender guys.
splattergun
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.22 LR, ..22 WMR, 22 Hornet, .223 Remington. All different cartridges, all the same caliber bullet, .22. That doesn't necessarily mean that they are identically sized bullets, just in the same approximate diameter.
I think of it this way; the 'cartridge' is the entire assembled piece of ammunition. The 'caliber' is the diameter class of the bullet itself.
I think of it this way; the 'cartridge' is the entire assembled piece of ammunition. The 'caliber' is the diameter class of the bullet itself.
.308 Norma
Member
Now I'm the one that feels slighted. You left out my beloved .22-250.
Just kidding around.
You can start correcting me for using caliber instead of cartridge when describing what a gun is chambered for when you stop the gun companies.
Ruger's search
Smith and Wesson
And that's just the the first two I looked at.
Ruger's search
Smith and Wesson
And that's just the the first two I looked at.
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AJC1
Member
Hay hay now, some of us feel that this is a very technically correct term for a cast projectile which was lovingly and with due diligence created in one's man space. Whe one refers to said boolit one is specifying a proud creation of one owns efforts. One cannot simply go to the store and buy said boolit
Buzznrose
Member
The more I think about this thread, the more I think about the cartridge as basically the proper name and little more. Sometimes they are descriptive, sometimes not. .308 Winchester is the name but also the caliber, while 44 Rem Mag is the name and not the caliber.
Bcwitt
Member
I have a chevy caliber, the CD cartridge dosnt work right, but the combustion chambers are great.
Bcwitt
Member
I guess you could say "which ordnance does that gun use?" Without stepping on toes.
Piker... compared to my 50s-era M70/220-Swift.....You left out my beloved .22-250 [
(again, see Post # 39 for how little "caliber" really tells the gentle reader anything of use.)
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I think your autocorrect keeps misspelling cast bullets as cast boolits
You might need to fix that.
SingleActionAndrew
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Yes but these are marketing materials. Their job is to sell to their customers, not educate them. If we keep perpetuating the wrong language, so will the industries that sell to us.
Like I said I use caliber instead of cartridge maybe 100 times a Year. Gun companies put it on millions of things.
If you really want change start with them.
While you're at it call Remington.
I see it all over the place, and yea companies put that everywhere, website, slips. and I guess the root of my question is am I wrong thinking the term is being used incorrectly, or did I just miss that memo and need to get up to speed? lol ... has caliber been used that way to mean cartrdige for a long time or is that a new standard? I find it both a bit confusing and concerning, but I'm over 50 now and I got my old fart card this year
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