Ever tried to duplicate a particular/specific factory load?

No, I try to load something more accurate than factory. The last time I bought factory ammo was in the late 70's. Needed to get brass to handload with. The only time I buy factory handgun ammo is when I qualify, it's required. Other wise I'm 100% handloads all the time. With the exception of rim fire.

BTW, didn't see this thread until after I started that "pet load" thread.

But wanted to mention, don't know when they stopped, but my dad's old Lyman 45th manual included a "Duplicates Factory Load" at bottom of most load data tables. My Lyman 50th has dropped that.

I don’t know if I was actually trying, but I kinda copied the M855. Same bullet, velocity is slightly less.

I do this as a “bulk ” round for 4 rifles.

One of the 4 is getting a “special” load worked up for it. But I wanted a load all 4 guns would digest well, and satisfactory accuracy.

I kinda did that with 9mm too.

For skeet/5 station/sporting clays I have a 12 gauge load that probably mimics some factory load. But that wasn’t my intent.

Primarily, all my reloading is weapon specific. I am in the process of getting a new .357. Once I do that, the project will be to try to find a load that shoots well out of both the revolver and carbine. Hopefully the other revolver’s too.

The guys over at 10mm firearms forum have a factory ammo pull down sticky. VERY useful for doing this.

Airborne Falcon said:

So what's the one roadblock we most-often run into? Which propellant they use at the factory ... correct?

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Kaldor said:

Powder is the hard thing to figure honestly as you pointed out.

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Wow, so cool. The 44th ed has it too! Great tip!

Howa 9700 said:

But wanted to mention, don't know when they stopped, but my dad's old Lyman 45th manual included a "Duplicates Factory Load" at bottom of most load data tables. My Lyman 50th has dropped that.

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I dont reload to mimic factory loads or i would just buy them. I reload to make either light recoiling plinking loads or the other end of the spectrum, hotter than factory loads.

BushMaster-15 said:

Unless one is carrying a 24" test barrel ,it's AWFUL tough to " Duplicate " Factory ammo ,especially when 98% of them use Powders unavailable to the General public

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I think that's one of the reasons why I can't get factory velocity from my M193 clone, even using H335. Granted, I don't have a test barrel, so I can only assume pressure readings. Handgun clones are far easier, however... even though accuracy duplication may or may not be equivalent.

Armored farmer said:

It isn't so much the load quality...as it is the HEAVENLY smell of the burned powder.

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I always thought that when I was in the Army, shooting M193 (yes, I was an '80's soldier...) My M193 clones, even using H335, just don't quite smell the same... but they are close. I need to check Yankee Candle to see if they have Milsurp M193 as a scent. While I'm in there, I'll check to see if they have '68 Nova as a scent... that would bring back memories, too.


Some of you mentioned trying to do better than factory with your handloads... and while that's true, it really depends. I don't duplicate (as I mentioned previously) M193 or M80 (I had forgotten about that one...) to achieve accuracy, per se, but to duplicate the performance (velocity) of the factory round. My .308 loads with the 168grn SMK aren't developed to mimic the Federal GMM load, but... I'll bet, in the end, it's pretty darned close. That's a question that circles back endlessly to 'which came first?' ...your painstakingly developed 168grn .308 match load is probably a pretty close match to the FGMM load... whether or not you intended it to be, simply because it's a valid combination that works in 99% of the standard .308 rifles extant.

I know it is fairly anemic as a standard load but the Rem green and yellow CL'S in .308 and 30-06. They have just worked so consistently thru the years.

Using Rem bulk CL bullets and Rem primers, I at least managed to duplicate the velocity in my rifles compared to the factory versions of 150 and 165gr loads. Best part is, the loads are a touch more accurate which never hurts.

Now if I could duplicate the Federal 150gr load for my 7 STW ....

Yes many times Gold Dots, XTP and Golden Sabers when you could get the projectiles for not a lot of money

I made up some for all my "carry" loads in 380, 9mm and 45 to practice with. Then loaded the factory ones to actually carry.

Armored farmer said:

I always want to duplicate the Federal high-brass 20 ga uplands that I used for quail/squirrel/ rabbits back in the 70's.
It isn't so much the load quality...as it is the HEAVENLY smell of the burned powder.
If I just knew what powder that was......

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I'd venture an educated guess and say Hercules and or Dupont . As to the specific make again just a guess :
IMR introduced “Hi-Skor 700X” for target shotshell reloading in 1963 . They most certainly were selling it to SOMEONE ?.

It wasn't Winchester Olin or Remington Peters . Remington purchased Hercules that I'm Positive of ,as to what extend or purpose I'd NOT know that . Our Dept. would receive a " Batch Dispatch " Powder type , Quantity required ,delivery scheduled date . Then My Senior supervisor would get confirmation produce paperwork and authorize Lot # ,when that was at MY Station I along with others would begin formulating materials ,so as to fulfill the order . Commercial powders were slightly different than standard canister consumer grade powders .
They were also Bulk shipped ,regulations prohibited disclosing when where or how it was to be transported .

As I also worked for another Division of Hercules , I batched bagged and sometimes transported 45K lb. of 80% 2x16 gel stick to Union Carbide and other industrial and commercial consumers back in the day . Regulations required special routing as well as times and blasting caps were NEVER allowed on board nor was primer cord . Those were transported separately ,sometimes in pickup trucks or stake sides .

Armored farmer said:

I always want to duplicate the Federal high-brass 20 ga uplands that I used for quail/squirrel/ rabbits back in the 70's.
It isn't so much the load quality...as it is the HEAVENLY smell of the burned powder.
If I just knew what powder that was......

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Were those paper hulls? Federal paper hulls are in demand by the shot gun guys for that same reason. That smell. Said to be a combination of powder and burnt parafin wax used on the paper. That plus they make some nice loads, but have to be handled right. Top two rows with red T were loaded no my old Texan, using 6 point crimp. Bottom hulls on a mec with a cone shaped pre-crimp. Apparently folds of paper have enough memory in them they will fall in place once you get them leaning in.

Pretty much any pistol load that Alliant has published on their website is right there, I've always found.

Howa 9700 said:

Were those paper hulls? Federal paper hulls are in demand by the shot gun guys for that same reason. That smell. Said to be a combination of powder and burnt parafin wax used on the paper. That plus they make some nice loads, but have to be handled right. Top two rows with red T were loaded no my old Texan, using 6 point crimp. Bottom hulls on a mec with a cone shaped pre-crimp. Apparently folds of paper have enough memory in them they will fall in place once you get them leaning in.

View attachment 1122577

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Yup
I loaded many cases of federal champion and super target on a mec 400.

Howa 9700 said:

Were those paper hulls? Federal paper hulls are in demand by the shot gun guys for that same reason. That smell. Said to be a combination of powder and burnt parafin wax used on the paper. That plus they make some nice loads, but have to be handled right. Top two rows with red T were loaded no my old Texan, using 6 point crimp. Bottom hulls on a mec with a cone shaped pre-crimp. Apparently folds of paper have enough memory in them they will fall in place once you get them leaning in.

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I always thought Unique made that great burned powder smell.

See
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6082763&postcount=13
https://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6675236&postcount=18

No.

Yes and no. There are factory loads I have tried to duplicate with the intent of enhancing its performance, but that’s the extent of it.

I have asked and received the factory specs of 38 SPL and 45 ACP ball ammo. I think RC Model provided the info so I could duplicate some factory ball for test purposes. Orher than that I work up my loads for accuracy and less than max velocity. So far so good in bettering factory ammo.

For nearly 99% of my handloads, I'm going for the lightest recoiling, cleanest burning, reliably functioning, and accurate load.
Most factory loads reliably function, but usually fall short on the other things.

I'm mainly a pistol cartridge reloader.
Only in a hunting load am I trying to ramp up on velocity toward your typical factory load. I've loaded up enough of these to last several lifetimes of hunting, for all calibers. They are fun to work up, and test...but are rarely needed compared to target loads.

Just like with the private handloading market, each big powder company has its share of buyers from commercial companies, in fact the majority of their business is to the commercial sector....without the commercial sector, they would likely not profit much off of the private handloading sector, due to the relative low demand. Because of the commercial demand for powder, we're able to take advantage of all the awesome formulations that are out there.
All of the R&D and effort put forward for the commercial sector, we as handloaders are taking advantage of.
I'm not saying the powders are exactly the same, but they are close relatives of each other for sure.

At best, there have been small proprietary differences in powders for commercial vs cannister. Copper fouling Reducing technology, flash suppressant..For example, Alliant BE-86 is a high energy pistol powder that contains flash suppressant and meters excellent (this matters for commercial loading machines as well!) It provides perfect bulk density to provide just about perfect case fill in the cartridges it caters to, which provides a built-in safety factor. Its nearly ideal for 9mm Luger, 40 S&W and 357 SIG (3 most common LE/ Military cartridges) Its no coincidence it's a perfect semi-auto pistol powder, it was made that way on purpose, and was a commercial powder for a long, long time prior to being made available to handloaders. If a powder can beat BE-86 in all the areas of safety and performance in the cartridges it excels in, please do let me know about it.....

Like most Trapshooters, I loaded factory equivalent 2 3/4 DE, 1 1/8 oz #8 so my lead would be the same with reload and factory.
I used AA hulls, AA wads, WW primers, and AA452 powder. (At least while it was cheaper than 700X.)

My 175 gr .308 load is a bit faster than factory, a bit below handbook maximum; that is where I got best accuracy.
.223, nowhere close to anything on the market.

I loaded .38 Special wadcutters and semiwadcutters to factory equivalent for PPC.
I load 9mm either to Minor power factor for matches or to factory equivalent for defensive weapon practice.
I don't try with .45 ACP, though, my recoil tolerance is long gone and I load it down so as to keep the guns comfortably in use.

I say "factory equivalent" because other than my AA shotgun shells, I am not using, usually can't get, factory components.
Frex, Federal won't sell me the bullets they put in 9BP, so I just load Remington or Zero 115 gr JHP to the same velocity.
And everybody knows about bulk vs canister powder, it is one of the most frequently mansplained subjects on the www.

Jim Watson said:

Frex, Federal won't sell me the bullets they put in 9BP, so I just load Remington or Zero 115 gr JHP to the same velocity.

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American Reloading has pulled/demilled ones.
I see the 115gr Hi-Shok (the projectile used in 9BP)
Hydra-Shoks, HSTs and sometimes Gold Dots and other factory projectiles for sale quite often. Just saying, if you'd like to get some, it is possible.
I've purchased some over the years and like them just fine.

Aside from surplus 5.56 and 7.62x39, I've never bought any factory ammo to try to duplicate.

When I had an M1A, M118LR was easy to duplicate.

Palladan44 said:

American Reloading has pulled/demilled ones.
I see the 115gr Hi-Shok (the projectile used in 9BP)

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'Deed they do.
I shot a lot of "blem" 147gr RNBT, obviously Hornady, until the blemishes got worse and the price went up.

Yes I have and IMO successfully.

I carry the 135gr Speer GDHP Short Barrel .38 Special +P ammo.

Back when it came out Speer was issuing dedicated load data for their ammo. With that and some help from a Speer Rep I came up with an excellent duplicate load. I also developed the recipe for their short barrel .357 Magnum load.

I used a 140gr XTP bullet in the development because I got 2 boxes for an insanity low price.
I used CCI 500 primers.
I used Speer marked .38 Spl +P brass.
I used AA#5 for the .38 and Power Pistol for the .357 with Speer branded .357 Mag brass.