Disappointing day at the range

chaim

Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2002
Messages
3,846
Location
Columbia, MD
Yesterday was a very disappointing day at the range. I went with four handguns (four gives me variety while being manageable and giving me time with each gun), my new to me almost 30 year old Taurus 431, my Taurus 856UL, Glock 19 and CZ PCR (all but the 431 are sometimes carry guns, the 431 may eventually be carried occasionally but I bought it more just because I wanted it).

The first disappointment was my 431. I had wanted one for about 20 years and finally got around to buying one recently. It was its first range trip. The first few cylinders I shot HSM 240gr LSWC "Cowboy Cartridges" and I was surprised at how stout the recoil was given that these were supposedly "cowboy" rounds. I guess 240gr out of such a small revolver (2.5" K-frame sized revolver) will be stout regardless. They also didn't seem to quite go where I was aiming, not by a lot but they were off (I had a bigger issue so this was almost forgotten). Then I moved to my intended carry/home defense load should I decide to use the 431 in that role, 165gr Hornady Critical Defense (well, there are other brands and loads I would use, but for now I'll go with the Critical Defense, later I was thinking some of the Buffalo Bore and/or Underwood versions of more traditional revolver loadings).

The Critical Defense were much more pleasant to shoot and actually enjoyable, and from 10 to 15 yards hit right where I aimed. The problem was, 3 or 4 rounds failed to fire. Some took 3 or even 4 strikes before the round would go off. On the first round that didn't fire, I removed it and inspected the primer, and it did appear to be a nice solid strike. Further, only one round went off on the 2nd attempt, the rest needed several hammer strikes to fire. So, I am inclined to think it may have been the ammo, but Hornady usually makes good ammo with good QC so multiple rounds out of 20 were bad rounds, hard to believe. What is really annoying about this... I'd almost rather it happen with both brands. The trigger is incredible, and it is a 30 year old gun, so it is possible that work done by a previous owner or even simple wear could be the cause of the issue (despite the primer strikes appearing to my eyes to be good). Now I need to try out several loads of ammo and lots of rounds to reassure myself that this was only an ammo problem and not the gun before I'd ever use this gun for defense, and .44spl is expensive. I never planned on shooting this much so I wasn't going to buy .44spl dies, but I guess I'm going to have to do some .44spl reloading.

My Glock 19 was reliable as I'm used to, but since it has been 4 or 5 range trips since I last brought it (just over a month), and I've only owned it for about 2 months, I wasn't as accurate with it as I would have liked (I was "combat accurate" however).

Next I shot my PCR and reassured myself that I can still shoot accurately. Things went well, as they always do with my CZs.

The biggest disappointment of the night was my Taurus 856UL. I love this gun, it is accurate (though at 16oz, follow up shots are a bit slow if I want to keep it accurate) and has been reliable for the 3 or so years I've owned it, and I often use it in a backup role or when I want to just drop a gun in my pocket (with a pocket holster of course). I was shooting some Colt branded Double Tap 110gr DT Lead Free ammo. Three or four rounds into the first cylinder I hear a round that sounds and feels off (way too quiet). I suspect my first squib round in 23 or 24 years of shooting so I don't pull the trigger but try to open the cylinder and it is jammed shut. I try forcing it open, it won't. I doubt it is cylinder binding since it was coupled with a very weak sounding and feeling round, I think the bullet is lodged partially in the cylinder and partly in the barrel, but I call over to the range officer to see if they have a rubber mallet I can borrow to try to force open the cylinder in case it is just binding. He asks what is going on, I inform him (stressing that I strongly suspect a squib round with the bullet jamming things up). He asks to check it out and I let him, and he starts doing what I did (trying to force open the cylinder with his hands). Then, he tries pulling the trigger (very bad idea if it is a squib round blocking the barrel), but luckily the cylinder still doesn't rotate. Anyway, I had to leave it for their gunsmith to work on when he comes in on Monday, and that ended my range trip on a rather negative note.


Both issues were with Taurus revolvers, so of course, my mind does go to Taurus' hit or miss reputation. However, both issues were likely ammo related. Still, not confidence inspiring, and no one wants their range trip ended with such a catastrophic failure of one of their carry guns (on the bright side, the gun jammed up and I could tell from the sound that something was wrong, another round fired with a squib in the barrel could have destroyed the gun and possibly injured my hands).


Edit 1/8 for spelling error
 
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Last Friday I drove an hour to a new range. Paid my fee and went to the stall.

Put on muffs and eye protection, laid out ammo and firearm, loaded 6 magazines and took a deep breath. Took my stance and attempted to load a magazine.

The magazines would not load, since they were for a different firearm. And I did not have any magazines for the one that I brought and could not bring myself to pay $ 75 for one in the hi falutin store.

Packed up my stuff and went home...told the range officer it was a good thing that I was not a drinking man.
 
I have learned that you can't get everything done that you plain to do at the range in one trip. I always take along a gun that always shoots so if everything fails I can have something to shoot.
I go to a club range & depending on the day or time there may be a competition going on in the bay or it could be full where I was wanting to shoot.
And if all else fails I can always walk the unused bays picking up brass & unfired bullets or picking up trash to keep our range clean.
 
Last Friday I drove an hour to a new range. Paid my fee and went to the stall.

Put on muffs and eye protection, laid out ammo and firearm, loaded 6 magazines and took a deep breath. Took my stance and attempted to load a magazine.

The magazines would not load, since they were for a different firearm. And I did not have any magazines for the one that I brought and could not bring myself to pay $ 75 for one in the hi falutin store.

Packed up my stuff and went home...told the range officer it was a good thing that I was not a drinking man.

Oh man, that would have stunk. What a waste of time, and the letdown of anticipating a day at the range and then having to just leave.

Sounds likely to be the ammo vs the gun to me. Low powder or insufficient burn from the sounds of it.

The 856 issue is almost definitely an ammo issue, I don't think it even could be anything else (unless I'm wrong about the squib load and bullet lodged between the cylinder and it actually is a binding issue and the light report and recoil is just coincidence). I'm thinking it is also an ammo issue for the 431 since it only did it with the one box, but I can't be sure so I will need to test it out with many rounds and several different brands and loadings before I'll trust the gun for defensive work.

I have learned that you can't get everything done that you plain to do at the range in one trip. I always take along a gun that always shoots so if everything fails I can have something to shoot.
I go to a club range & depending on the day or time there may be a competition going on in the bay or it could be full where I was wanting to shoot.
And if all else fails I can always walk the unused bays picking up brass & unfired bullets or picking up trash to keep our range clean.

I went with one new to me used gun (the 431) and three other guns. Unfortunately, the issue that ended my day was the last gun that I was shooting so I ended on a sour note. I was mostly out of ammo (other than three boxes of .38spl that I brought for the 856). I did have about half a box of the 240gr LSWC that was working out of the 431, but with how they recoiled out of the small for caliber gun, I needed a break from that (I think I'll only shoot half a box of 240gr per session out of that gun, the rest of the time I'll have to buy lighter grain rounds).
 
I got a phone message from the gunsmith already, he must have come in today even though he wasn't expected until tomorrow. It was what I thought on the 856, a squib round that didn't travel very far, partly in the barrel and partly in the cylinder. He said he couldn't tell what ammo it was but that I shouldn't shoot it on their range again, and he didn't recommend I shoot it at all. I found that kind of funny since I bought two boxes of it from them :D . No worries, I plan to get rid of the remaining rounds anyway, I'm sure the primers are OK so I'll likely pull the bullets and reload the primed cases. Anyway, he also cleaned the gun for me and it is ready for pick up, no charge (40min of gunsmith services are included in my membership).
 
How interesting that on the same day we were both using thirty year old 431s. I didn’t get to shoot mine,however.
Hopefully,as it is heavier than my old original Charter Bulldog and has Pachmayr grips, it will be a little more reserved.
If you’re getting good, centered primer strikes I doubt it is the gun.
 
We feel your pain, as we have all been there :(. If it isn’t leaving ammo, magazines or something else for a gun that I brought, it may be a sights issue, a gun issue or an ammo issue that occasionally cuts a shooting trip short.

For me, the worst ones are the days when I am rushed or otherwise not “ feeling it,” so no matter how hard I try the shots just aren’t hitting where I want them to. o_O

Like me, you have a good mix of guns that don’t easily transfer the finer points of each one across to each other. Obviously being proficient with a variety of handguns is always good. But on days when things are going a bit funky, shooting a mixture of guns so-so can make a less than stellar day seem worse.

You’ll get ‘em next time. :thumbup:

Stay safe.
 
@chaim - you know, we all have those days where nothing seems to go right. I once went something like 0 for 13 in a high school basketball game (I blamed my shoes), then lit it up the next game and couldn't miss a few days later. We control what we can. Mostly, it's just us having a bad day. But, ammo quality can be hit or miss (literally) these days, we may have missed some fouling or a lube point when doing our last gun maintenance, a sight may have gotten bumped, or we may just have a finicky piece that needs some other attention somewhere.
You’ll get ‘em next time.
Yep.
But on days when things are going a bit funky, shooting a mixture of guns so-so can make a less than stellar day seem worse.
This.
I pretty much dedicate myself to one particular platform for each range session (say, medium caliber revolvers or full-size duty pistols or all .22s or all 9mm micro pistols, whatever, with, as much as possible, the same operating systems, i.e., all 1911s, all striker-fired or DA/SA, frame-mounted safety, whatever). And if I'm shooting J-frame sized revolvers, that's all I'm shooting.
 
On Sat I went to the range again, and I picked up my 856UL (I didn't bring any .38 ammo to shoot though).

The Glock is still less accurate for me than my other guns. What I can hit at 15 yards with my CZs, SIGs, revolvers, and 1911s I'm hitting at 7-10 yards with my Glock, what I can hit at 10-15 yards with the Glock is what I can hit at 20-25 yards with the others. I'm on target at 25 yards, and I'm definitely on center mass on a silhouette target at 20, but my groups are more like patterns. That said, I've been shooting CZs, 1911s and revolvers for decades now, I've owned a Glock for 4 months (and the G19 for 2), and I have an XS Big Dot sight on it (made for quick target acquisition, not maximum precision). It is "combat accurate," but I would like to be better with it (I guess I have to keep practicing).

I did a lot better with another similar gun, my 1st gen S&W M&P 40c. I shoot that about as well as my SIGs, and nearly as well as my CZs and 1911s. It was 100% reliable, and it is crazy how comfortable it is to shoot and how quickly I can get off follow up shots on such a small gun (roughly G26/27 size) in .40S&W.

The 431 did better this trip (same ammo as the first trip). Before I went, I sprayed some Remington Dri Lube (Teflon based) into the action of the 431. I am still 100% reliable with the 240gr HSM LSCW. The second box of Hornady Critical Defense did still have one round that did not fire the first time and needed a second strike to fire (it only happened in the final cylinder I shot). I'm going to try a deep cleaning and lube, it is a 30 year old gun that I just bought used, who knows if the side plate has ever been removed or if it ever had a deep clean. I'll also try a few other brands of ammo (and other Hornady loadings) to see what happens. The fact that this box was a lot better than the last one (only one failure to fire) is making me hopeful.

I also shot my Dan Wesson Heritage 1911. I meant for this to be a home defense gun, but the last 2 times it has been to the range, it has failed to feed at least twice (each trip). Though, both times yesterday was with the Sierra Sport 185gr JHP, and I am pretty sure the previous FTF were with this same ammo. Every other brand and loading I tried was fine. I'll have to try the ammo in my S&W 1911SC which for the decade and a half I've owned it has been 100% reliable to see if it can trip up that gun, and I'll have to shoot the DW with a lot of other ammo to see if I have similar issues (I don't think the prior issues were with any of my other ammo, but I only had about 200 rounds through it before the first problem so it hasn't been shot extensively). So, I'm thinking/hoping it was an ammo issue, but it has moved my DW 1911 out of the home defense intended use, at least for now.
 
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As Jeff Cooper might say, the important thing is that you were at the range.
I have been shooting only 22s for the last 6-7 years, I had a 3 year or so layoff, since I learned to shoot a handgun firing Bullseye with my High Standard Victor I know that 22LR is the way to acquire and maintain shooting skills. At one range another shooter let me shoot his S&W M-52-with wadcutters....felt like I was shooting an S&W M-19 with 357s with one hand !
 
Yesterday was a very disappointing day at the range. I went with four handguns (four gives me variety while being manageable and giving me time with each gun), my new to me almost 30 year old Taurus 431, my Taurus 856UL, Glock 19 and CZ PCR (all but the 431 are sometimes carry guns, the 431 may eventually be carried occasionally but I bought it more just because I wanted it).

The first disappointment was my 431. I had wanted one for about 20 years and finally got around to buying one recently. It was its first range trip. The first few cylinders I shot HSM 240gr LSWC "Cowboy Cartridges" and I was surprised at how stout the recoil was given that these were supposedly "cowboy" rounds. I guess 240gr out of such a small revolver (2.5" K-frame sized revolver) will be stout regardless. They also didn't seem to quite go where I was aiming, not by a lot but they were off (I had a bigger issue so this was almost forgotten). Then I moved to my intended carry/home defense load should I decide to use the 431 in that role, 165gr Hornady Critical Defense (well, there are other brands and loads I would use, but for now I'll go with the Critical Defense, later I was thinking some of the Buffalo Bore and/or Underwood versions of more traditional revolver loadings).

The Critical Defense were much more pleasant to shoot and actually enjoyable, and from 10 to 15 yards hit right where I aimed. The problem was, 3 or 4 rounds failed to fire. Some took 3 or even 4 strikes before the round would go off. On the first round that didn't fire, I removed it and inspected the primer, and it did appear to be a nice solid strike. Further, only one round went off on the 2nd attempt, the rest needed several hammer strikes to fire. So, I am inclined to think it may have been the ammo, but Hornady usually makes good ammo with good QC so multiple rounds out of 20 were bad rounds, hard to believe. What is really annoying about this... I'd almost rather it happen with both brands. The trigger is incredible, and it is a 30 year old gun, so it is possible that work done by a previous owner or even simple wear could be the cause of the issue (despite the primer strikes appearing to my eyes to be good). Now I need to try out several loads of ammo and lots of rounds to reassure myself that this was only an ammo problem and not the gun before I'd ever use this gun for defense, and .44spl is expensive. I never planned on shooting this much so I wasn't going to buy .44spl dies, but I guess I'm going to have to do some .44spl reloading.

My Glock 19 was reliable as I'm used to, but since it has been 4 or 5 range trips since I last brought it (just over a month), and I've only owned it for about 2 months, I wasn't as accurate with it as I would have liked (I was "combat accurate" however).

Next I shot my PCR and reassured myself that I can still shoot accurately. Things went well, as they always do with my CZs.

The biggest disappointment of the night was my Taurus 856UL. I love this gun, it is accurate (though at 16oz, follow up shots are a bit slow if I want to keep it accurate) and has been reliable for the 3 or so years I've owned it, and I often use it in a backup role or when I want to just drop a gun in my pocket (with a pocket holster of course). I was shooting some Colt branded Double Tap 110gr DT Lead Free ammo. Three or four rounds into the first cylinder I hear a round that sounds and feels off (way too quiet). I suspect my first squib round in 23 or 24 years of shooting so I don't pull the trigger but try to open the cylinder and it is jammed shut. I try forcing it open, it won't. I doubt it is cylinder binding since it was coupled with a very weak sounding and feeling round, I think the bullet is lodged partially in the cylinder and partly in the barrel, but I call over to the range officer to see if they have a rubber mallet I can borrow to try to force open the cylinder in case it is just binding. He asks what is going on, I inform him (stressing that I strongly suspect a squib round with the bullet jamming things up). He asks to check it out and I let him, and he starts doing what I did (trying to force open the cylinder with his hands). Then, he tries pulling the trigger (very bad idea if it is a squib round blocking the barrel), but luckily the cylinder still doesn't rotate. Anyway, I had to leave it for their gunsmith to work on when he comes in on Monday, and that ended my range trip on a rather negative note.


Both issues were with Taurus revolvers, so of course, my mind does go to Taurus' hit or miss reputation. However, both issues were likely ammo related. Still, not confidence inspiring, and no one wants their range trip ended with such a catastrophic failure of one of their carry guns (on the bright side, the gun jammed up and I could tell from the sound that something was wrong, another round fired with a squib in the barrel could have destroyed the gun and possibly injured my hands).


Edit 1/8 for spelling error

Very frustrating range day for you!
I do not have experience with Taurus revolvers, but I did purchase a .40 S&W Taurus semi-auto that I had to sell for a fraction of the original price after only 2 range visits and many malfunctions. I swore not to purchase Taurus products, ever again. It has been almost 14 years since then. Not inclined to purchase their products.
 
Last Friday I drove an hour to a new range. Paid my fee and went to the stall.

Put on muffs and eye protection, laid out ammo and firearm, loaded 6 magazines and took a deep breath. Took my stance and attempted to load a magazine.

The magazines would not load, since they were for a different firearm. And I did not have any magazines for the one that I brought and could not bring myself to pay $ 75 for one in the hi falutin store.

Packed up my stuff and went home...told the range officer it was a good thing that I was not a drinking man.
Another reason why I love revolvers;)
 
I just shot a 431 I picked up from an appraisal two weeks ago. Only fired five shots, 250 grain wfn over 6.5 Unique. Seemed to be high at 25 yards. (beer can in the snow). Seems to be normal for me with heavy slugs and fixed sights. Smooth action, nice trigger. Gonna try 200 grain bullets next. Looks nice beside my 4" 624. Both stainless. Much smoother than my old original Bulldog.
 
My 431 shoots quite high at 25 yards with a 250 grain bullet at moderate speed. I’ve brought poi down by going to lighter bullets with more speed reducing barrel time. Next up, 200 grains at 825
 
Went to the range once and brought everything with me, including ammunition, hearing protection, gun rest, cleaning equipment, targets and a spotting scope. Everything, that is, except for the guns...:oops: :mad:
 
My semiautomatic pistols have their owns case with their magazines.
Bought a used somewhat rough barrel-$10-for my Browning HP. Accuracy was horrible.
I was firing 9MMP out of a 40 S&W barrel.
 
My worst was driving 70 miles to my fathers cabin with my GF. We went to spend the weekend and shoot my new S&W MP15-22. Brought the gun, along with plenty of ammo, and left the magazines at home. Had to drive 40 minutes to a shop where I was able to buy a magazine. Everything turned out ok, and I had another spare magazine.

Every time I have a problem at the range, I try to learn from it and come up with a system so that it doesn't happen again.

chris
 
Went to the range with everything I needed, only to find out that the range was closed!
Lesson learned. Now, I call ahead of time, every time. :0
 
Ha, ha, ha. Sounds like the time that I went out to shoot my 45 ACP and had a pocket full of
10 mm, they just slid down the barrel and fell out on the ground. LOL
 
the only time I ever had a revolver bind up, I somehow put a ding in it on the right side, probably at the range while shooting it and the bottom of the cases were dragging accross the burr created by the ding. it was kind of an adventure to finally figure it out, but it was an easy fix. oh, not a Taurus revolver.

if you never have a bad day, you don't really appreciate the good ones.
 
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