At last....A double stack Kahr Arms.

Kahr is one I can't hang with, I see their pistols as 1/3 the quality at 100%+ of the price of other polymer striker guns. Can't figure their double stack could be much different but could be wrong. I've had 2 and they were atrocious . unreliable , unbelievably horrible triggers and a service life below 100 rounds. Just so bad. I still have one - a cw40, it was the better of the 2 but I wouldn't count on it working.

Some folks like the trigger, can't see how that's possible but they claim to. The only thing I liked about them is they're slim, if that's gone because it's a double stack now I figure there's nothing to like unless there has been drastic improvements otherwise .

The thing I've always been baffled by with kahr is that they sell various versions of the same gun with ever differing letter designations ... So, like I guess they are aware the cw is trash but they'll sell it anyway and the the next version up is a little less junk y but still not good all the way up until you buy the $1000+ version and that thing will probably work, with the grossest squishy mile long trigger you ever felt. Ugh I've tried so hard to like them but they just flat out aren't for me.

chaim said:

and the first striker fired pistol*, and first polymer pistol goes back to 1970.

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Striker fired pistols came about many many years before that. The C93 borchardt from 1893 was striker fired. The 1907 Roth Steyr also comes to mind.

Obturation said:

Kahr is one I can't hang with, I see their pistols as 1/3 the quality at 100%+ of the price of other polymer striker guns. Can't figure their double stack could be much different but could be wrong. I've had 2 and they were atrocious . unreliable , unbelievably horrible triggers and a service life below 100 rounds. Just so bad. I still have one - a cw40, it was the better of the 2 but I wouldn't count on it working.

Some folks like the trigger, can't see how that's possible but they claim to. The only thing I liked about them is they're slim, if that's gone because it's a double stack now I figure there's nothing to like unless there has been drastic improvements otherwise .

The thing I've always been baffled by with kahr is that they sell various versions of the same gun with ever differing letter designations ... So, like I guess they are aware the cw is trash but they'll sell it anyway and the the next version up is a little less junk y but still not good all the way up until you buy the $1000+ version and that thing will probably work, with the grossest squishy mile long trigger you ever felt. Ugh I've tried so hard to like them but they just flat out aren't for me.

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Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel!

C0untZer0 said:

I did lose a magazine part when the base plate just slid off once... the locking plate went flying and I never found it

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I never had a mag plate come off (PM9) but they don't have much of a nub to prevent it. To improve this I used a punch to stretch the nub a bit such that it would actually hook and prevent the mag plate from sliding.

Obturation said:

and a service life below 100 rounds.

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Seriously?

Charlie98 said:

Seriously?

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For some, yeah. He’s referring to his two specific Kahrs, not to every Kahr.

My P380 made it through about 150 rounds before it started having every problem under the sun, and four return trips to the factory for warranty service failed to restore the gun to proper working condition.

AustinTX said:

My P380 made it through about 150 rounds before it started having every problem under the sun

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I have to admit... I'm curious. I've had some crappy pistols in my day, but none had 'a service life' of less than 100 or 150 rounds. I will grant you, I don't think Kahr's CS is very good (based solely on my one attempt to use it...) but for Heaven's sake...

My first 2 kahrs had a service life of about 100 rounds because I hated them so much I sold them before I got that far. My P40 I’ve only had for a few months so I’m only about maybe 300 rounds into it. The plastic rails that look like they were cut out on a yard sale table saw don’t instill much confidence, but then some people say they have many thousands of rounds through there’s.

I have a P9 that I bought used 18 years ago, just before I moved to a state where I could carry. I’ve had zero problems with it, although if I carry a magazine loose in a pocket the top round strips off. What I’ve always wanted was an aluminum, scandium or titanium framed Kahr 9mm. The steel frames have better triggers than the polymer frames, but they are just too heavy for what they are. A double stack 30 Super would be a good fit, and something unique in the carry market.

someguy2800 said:

Striker fired pistols came about many many years before that. The C93 borchardt from 1893 was striker fired. The 1907 Roth Steyr also comes to mind.

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And if you kept reading you will see that I addressed that in what followed my asterisk:

chaim said:

*I'm being conservative in giving first striker fired pistol to the VP70. More websites I've seen list that, but I've seen the FN1910 as well as a handgun from the 1880s listed on some websites as first. I'm not sure why, maybe they were striker fired but the VP70 is the first to use the contemporary version. Either way, it has been here a long time.

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I don't know why you regularly can see different references if you do a quick Google search, but you will see the VP70 (1970), FN 1910 (1910), and yes, the Hugo Borchardt C93 (which according to American Handgunner came out in 1883). You will also see some other handguns referenced as first, but not as commonly as the three above. I don't know why so many dates and guns are cited as first, not just on forum postings (which can easily be wrong) but also on websites and magazines. Maybe each is a different design, but with subsequent years they are closer to the modern design? Maybe the earlier ones were strikers, but modern striker guns use a variation of the VP70's design? Maybe someone made a mistake in their fact checking and it got repeated (especially if a gun mag or reputable website was first to post the incorrect info)? However, for the point I was making, it was better to take the more conservative (later) date as it was still long enough ago to bolster my point (which was that striker guns had been around a while, polymer guns had been around a while, and it really has been a long time since there were any changes in handgun designs that were more than incremental evolutionary change). Also, I went with the more conservative choice as I saw more references to the VP70 as first (granted, I was doing a Google search and not searching primary sources or searching academic journals).

My Mauser Model 1910 and 1914 pistols are both striker fired.

Both of my Kahrs work fine. The polymer one is just another small plastic pistol. The steel one is extremely nice.

Yeah, I can carry something like a Kahr or an LCP interchangeably with a DAO revolver. No safety or anything to think about, just draw, aim, and fire.

What's killing Kahr is how the competition in the market progressed, leaving them behind. Reliability and durability of something like Shield is far ahead of Kahr. Also, Shields and G43s are consistent in their quality. But with the Kahrs it's always a luck of a draw. Many people are happy with their Kahrs and swear that they are reliable, and for others Kahr is a dumpster fire (like mine was). Numerically, one in 100 Shields will have a bubble in a 500 round string[1]. But 1 in 5 Kahrs fail. That really is what was killing the brand for years before the double stack and provisions for optics arrived and completely blew it from the water.

The problem that the tupperware Kahrs with tin forward rails left for the brand is the poisonous legacy. Suppose that tomorrow Kahr starts making guns that are reliable, durable, and accurate. Nobody will ever know, because very few people are willing to deal with Kahr.

So, aside of completely updating their manufacturing, they'll need a whole new model with significantly different features. Then, the public could say, "old single stack Kahrs were complete garbage, but these new ones are quite nice." It does not even matter what those features are, as long as guns are obviously different and make a break with the past.

[1] A 500 round string is commonly used nowadays to quality a pistol for CCW. It approximates, although does not replicate, difficult conditions of on-body carry. See, for example, the explanation in Grant Cunningham's book.

Nuclear said:

I have a P9 that I bought used 18 years ago, just before I moved to a state where I could carry. I’ve had zero problems with it, although if I carry a magazine loose in a pocket the top round strips off. What I’ve always wanted was an aluminum, scandium or titanium framed Kahr 9mm. The steel frames have better triggers than the polymer frames, but they are just too heavy for what they are. A double stack 30 Super would be a good fit, and something unique in the carry market.

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I would pay an obscene amount of money for a titanium framed K40. That would be really cool.

I carry my K9 Kahr often. love the smooth trigger. Total reliability and easy to shoot. For me the grip feels perfect. I like all metal pistols. For me the new Kahr would have to be all steel with same width grip and more capacity. Not sure how that happens with physics. Tupperware with short trigger pull put them in same line as most other guns. I don’t like safety’s except on 1911. Now that’s just me.

zaitcev said:

What's killing Kahr is how the competition in the market progressed, leaving them behind. Reliability and durability of something like Shield is far ahead of Kahr. Also, Shields and G43s are consistent in their quality. But with the Kahrs it's always a luck of a draw. Many people are happy with their Kahrs and swear that they are reliable, and for others Kahr is a dumpster fire (like mine was). Numerically, one in 100 Shields will have a bubble in a 500 round string[1]. But 1 in 5 Kahrs fail. That really is what was killing the brand for years before the double stack and provisions for optics arrived and completely blew it from the water.

The problem that the tupperware Kahrs with tin forward rails left for the brand is the poisonous legacy. Suppose that tomorrow Kahr starts making guns that are reliable, durable, and accurate. Nobody will ever know, because very few people are willing to deal with Kahr.

So, aside of completely updating their manufacturing, they'll need a whole new model with significantly different features. Then, the public could say, "old single stack Kahrs were complete garbage, but these new ones are quite nice." It does not even matter what those features are, as long as guns are obviously different and make a break with the past.

[1] A 500 round string is commonly used nowadays to quality a pistol for CCW. It approximates, although does not replicate, difficult conditions of on-body carry. See, for example, the explanation in Grant Cunningham's book.

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Kahr's been busy doing other things and neglected its core business. They've been on an acquisition spree of sorts. They bought Thompson Machine Gun and something else (maybe it was Para-Ordnance). The Moonies may have bitten off more than they can chew.

OrangePwrx9 said:

Kahr's been busy doing other things and neglected its core business. They've been on an acquisition spree of sorts. They bought Thompson Machine Gun and something else (maybe it was Para-Ordnance). The Moonies may have bitten off more than they can chew.

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Don't forget the gold-plated Desert Eagles... (they picked up Magnum Research, too...)

Rule3 said:

They can keep it! After what I went through with a PM9 and PM 45 no more Monnies Unification guns for me!
I do have the PM 9 and to me it is still the only real POCKET 9mm that fits in docker type shorts pockets. But it took 3 trips to the mothership to fix the darn thing! I gave up on the 45 and sold it back to the shop knowing that it had issues,

I still do not understand the whole craze for mini pocket 9mms and then they want add double stack, extended mags, optics , lasers etc??

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It’s like compact cars, pickups and SUV’s; they fill the perfect niche when they are introduced. Then, after 5-6 years the new models have grown fat and flabby and do not resemble the initial model that everyone wanted in the first place.

I have never owned a Kahr, I guess I have them so well bracketed that I never saw the need to buy one. Hopefully this new gun works out well for them.

Stay safe.

bannockburn said:

9mmepiphany


I would definitely agree with you about the Kahr trigger. That's why I didn't have any problem fitting it in with my two other CCWs: a well used S&W Model 649 and a Model 638. All three possess decent DA triggers (with the CM9 having the longest but also the smoothest trigger), and it's relatively easy to switch off between them.
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Seems like Revolver guys like the Kahr! My CM9 is a wonderful little pistol. It gets put into my carry routine often. Big fan of Kahrs trigger! Having carried double action guns my entire life it is as good of a trigger you can get in a compact auto.

If they make a double stack that fits in my pocket like the CM9 does I will buy one. For now I am done buying new CCW pistols. Same reason I don’t have a 365. I love my Sigs but done chasing the latest and greatest.

wcwhitey said:

Seems like Revolver guys like the Kahr! My CM9 is a wonderful little pistol. It gets put into my carry routine often. Big fan of Kahrs trigger! Having carried double action guns my entire life it is as good of a trigger you can get in a compact auto.

If they make a double stack that fits in my pocket like the CM9 does I will buy one. For now I done chasing CCW. Same reason I don’t have a 365. I love my Sigs but done chasing the latest and greatest.

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I hear you, it sure gets pricy doing that. I think I also am done with chasing ccw guns, with the LCP II, Glock 43X and CZ 2075 RAMI on my qual sheet I am good.

Now if I buy another handgun, it’s just to scratch an itch.

Stay safe.

Riomouse911 said:

I hear you, it sure gets pricy doing that. I think I also am done with chasing ccw guns, with the LCP II, Glock 43X and CZ 2075 RAMI on my qual sheet I am good.

Now if I buy another handgun, it’s just to scratch an itch.

Stay safe.

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Same to you! Plenty I want but I can guarantee none of them have polymer in their construction!

I still have one open position on the CCW team that I’m holding tryouts for. I want a small double stack 9mm to carry OWB. Looking for something around 12-14 rounds, under 20 ounces unloaded, and needs to be significantly smaller and thinner than say a glock 19. I’ve looked at or shot pretty much all the double stack micro 9's on the market but a double stack Kahr might fit the bill depending on how they configure it.

Had to take it out today for a range date. My Kahr CM9 and Sig Sauer P239. The little Kahr is snappy with the 124 +P Gold Dots but shoots really nice with the Remington UMC 115 JHP (best round for the money). The Sig loves anything you put through it (it’s a Sig).

Why do you think a picture has not leaked, or been shown at SHOT?

Jim Watson said:

Why do you think a picture has not leaked, or been shown at SHOT?

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I saw a video yesterday forgot who but it was on this very subject. Apparently it’s not done yet. They had hoped for Shot Show but now shooting for the NRA Convention. What was said is that it will be unlike what they have done before have quite a few innovations. For what it’s worth! Bill



Found it

Visited the retail store at Kahr's corporate HQ today in Greely PA to pick up a couple of magazines. Asked the counter person if they would have a new double stack to look at soon. He said he didn't know a lot about it, they don't tell them much and had no idea how far along in development it was. He even suggested it might be ready next year.