Lee .223 Dies vs. Redding .223 FL Sizing And Micrometer Seating Die Seteter

peeplwtchr

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Hi All-

I got a set of .308 Redding Master Hunter dies a month ago, and am really impressed by the consistency in ogive length I get with SMK bullets.

I currently use a basic Lee die set for .223, and get .5-1 moa groups, would upgrading to a Redding die set improve my groups, based on die quality? My .223 bullets are Hornady Match 75gr. HPBT. My Lee dies are FL sizing (Not interested in neck sizing), seat and crimp dies (3 die set).

Thanks!
 
Lee are good quality dies. I just always buy some kind lock nuts with a positive locking system (clamping or set screw) vs Lee’s o-ring lock ring. Once adjusted, until you loosen the clamping system the adjustment remains the same.

The Redding micrometer seating stem makes seating depths easy and repeatable if you log the setting. It really has zero effect on the variation of the seating depths.

That said, there may differences in the profile of the seater stem which causes the increase in seating variability. Lee may have a service where you send them some bullets and they will make a custom seater for your desired bullet.

The Lee seating stem may not properly hold the bullet allowing the bullet to seat slightly crooked.

There are concentricity gauges on the market that can tell how straight you bullet is seated.

Some folks seat the bullet part way the turn tbe cartridge 90 degrees before completing the operation. This is to even out the bullet and correct any misalignment.

All that said, I prefer Redding and RCBS dies for the most part.
 
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Lee are good quality dies. I just always buy some kind lock nuts with a positive locking system (clamping or set screw) vs Lee’s o-ring lock ring. Once adjusted, until you loosen the clamping system the adjustment remains the same.

The Redding micrometer seating stem makes seating depths easy and repeatable if you log the setting. It really has zero effect on the variation of the seating depths.

That said, there may differences in the profile of the seater stem which causes the increase in seating variability. Lee may have a service where you send them some bullets and they will make a custom seater for your desired bullet.

The Lee seating stem may not properly hold the bullet allowing the bullet to seat slightly crooked.

There concentricity gauges on the market that can tell how straight you bullet is seated.

Some folks seat the bullet part way the turn tbe cartridge 90 degrees before completing the operation. This is to even out the bullet and correct any misalignment.

All that said, prefer Redding and RCBS dies for the most partp


Very articulate, thanks!
 
Since you already have the Lee 223 dies, you could buy a Hornady 223 seater die and the Micro Seating stem. I use it for my 223 precision loads and get low, measured runout.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1011035763

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012740357

Total cost is about $70.00, might be cheaper on Amazon. Just the Micrometer seater from Redding costs $ 120.00, the Forster Mic about $110.00. I do use a Redding Mic seater in 308. The Hornady mic seater is as repeatable as the Redding. Just another option.
 
Hi All-

I got a set of .308 Redding Master Hunter dies a month ago, and am really impressed by the consistency in ogive length I get with SMK bullets.

I currently use a basic Lee die set for .223, and get .5-1 moa groups, would upgrading to a Redding die set improve my groups, based on die quality? My .223 bullets are Hornady Match 75gr. HPBT. My Lee dies are FL sizing (Not interested in neck sizing), seat and crimp dies (3 die set).

Thanks!
The goal is to find a quality sizer that closely matches your chamber minimizing brass movement and producing concentric cases. The name that makes you feel the best at reaching that goal is not important. Watching the nightmare that JRB went through with 6.5 prc showed dramatically better results with Lee than Redding. Do I have a preference, absolutely. Is it statistically supported across the board as the best no.
 
The goal is to find a quality sizer that closely matches your chamber minimizing brass movement and producing concentric cases. Do I have a preference, absolutely. Is it statistically supported across the board as the best no.
How would I determine a sizer that matches? Also, what's your preference? You've given good answer after good answer on this forum btw, so I'm curious.
 
With the multiple amount of variables in shooting, can the brand of die alone make a difference?
Can it? Yes it can. Will it? Not guaranteed. First off, the action/barrel/bullets must be up to it. How's the trigger? Do you have a way to measure concentricity? Without that, we're just guessing. Any die makers seater can do well, and sometimes any die makers seater don't work well.

Yes, I like my odds better with Redding match seaters vs standard Lee seaters, but it's no guarantee, and if the brass is crooked out of the chamber, and the sizer leaves it that way, it doesn't matter.

Me? If I could do .5 to 1.0 with the standard seater, a floating sleeve match seater would be worth a try for me.

The old Lee "Dead Length Seater" did a great job of loading straight ammo. Do they still make them?
 
How would I determine a sizer that matches? Also, what's your preference? You've given good answer after good answer on this forum btw, so I'm curious.
One measures the case in many places, neck, base, and tests the movement created by sizing. The issue is that 1x fired cases are far from matching the die or the chamber. If I were to use an industry standard, checking sizing and movement would be most appropriate on 3x fired cases. By that point they should no longer Sammi minimum which most ammunition and bought cases start.
Another point of departure is that a set is best from any company. I prefer forester sizing dies, but seat with rcbs matchmaker or a Williams chamber seater. As walkalong mentioned the sliding guide normally gives superior results. If asked I bet his #1 vote goes to a chamber die.
 
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I don’t care who’s name is on the box, I’m only interested in performance, meaning how well the internal dimensions matches my chamber and my desired amount of radial sizing at the .200 line just above the base and case shoulder junction. I think guys tend to overlook radial and focus a bit to much on shoulder bumping when discussing fl dies.
Seaters ? Well to tell the truth IME most any seater will push a bullet into a hole and stop where it’s set to. I use a in line seater for simplicity and feel rather than concentricity which (IMO)in todays chambers isn’t really a thing .
I will add that I don’t think there’s a down side to having concentric ammunition as long as a fella has a good gage like @Walkalong rather than those Hornday tools.
 
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I got a set of .308 Redding Master Hunter dies a month ago, and am really impressed by the consistency in ogive length I get with SMK bullets.

I currently use a basic Lee die set for .223, and get .5-1 moa groups, would upgrading to a Redding die set improve my groups, based on die quality?

It would seem that you are the best person to answer that question as you already have your rifle and both die sets.

Unfortunately, it’s not as easy as just spending more money and things get better or our politicians would have made the USA Utopia by now…

Lots of variables involved.
 
Can it? Yes it can. Will it? Not guaranteed


That's deep:)
You left out the rest of the quote of variables
Semantics, guess I should have said will it

I use the LEE FL sizing and seating dies for .223. I’m very happy with the quality, consistency and accuracy of the rounds they produce.

 
I would propose that neither set being considered really offers specific control over neck tension, so opportunity for one sizer or the other to better dimensionally fit a specific rifle chamber is largely coincidental, and equally, the opportunity for one bullet seating stem or the other to better dimensionally fit a given bullet ogive is also coincidental (notwithstanding intentional purchase of VLD/ELD seating stems vs. standard stems).

Given a standard die, such as these, I'd send my sizer to the OEM to be honed to a slightly tighter neck diameter than I really want for my neck tension, 1-2thou undersized, ditch the expander ball from the sizer, and then use a mandrel expander after FL sizing to get neck tension where I want it. I'm prone to believe neck tension is a bigger knob even than chamber fit, so if I could only have one or the other, I'd rather have proper neck tension than perfect chamber support. So I'd rather have a Lee sizer with honed neck + a mandrel expander, then have a generic sizing die from any brand. Certainly, having both is better than just one, but even a generically sized cartridge has a good chance of presenting the bullet concentrically to the leade without perfect chamber fit, but nothing about chamber shape will improve ignition and primary combustion if we have inappropriate neck tension.

I don't necessarily buy into importance of micrometer seating stems, as they're really only relevant when changing seating depth, which I typically only do once per barrel, with thousands of rounds fired before rebarreling. A standard stem really does the same thing, just without the feedback for adjustment magnitude as the adjustments are being made.

Also, replacing seating stems with those which better fit our given bullet is an easy task, and modifying stems to perfectly fit our bullets is almost just as easy.

So I'd chase neck tension control and bullet fit to the stem, if those boxes haven't yet been checked.
 
I would propose that neither set being considered really offers specific control over neck tension, so opportunity for one sizer or the other to better dimensionally fit a specific rifle chamber is largely coincidental, and equally, the opportunity for one bullet seating stem or the other to better dimensionally fit a given bullet ogive is also coincidental (notwithstanding intentional purchase of VLD/ELD seating stems vs. standard stems).

Given a standard die, such as these, I'd send my sizer to the OEM to be honed to a slightly tighter neck diameter than I really want for my neck tension, 1-2thou undersized, ditch the expander ball from the sizer, and then use a mandrel expander after FL sizing to get neck tension where I want it. I'm prone to believe neck tension is a bigger knob even than chamber fit, so if I could only have one or the other, I'd rather have proper neck tension than perfect chamber support. So I'd rather have a Lee sizer with honed neck + a mandrel expander, then have a generic sizing die from any brand. Certainly, having both is better than just one, but even a generically sized cartridge has a good chance of presenting the bullet concentrically to the leade without perfect chamber fit, but nothing about chamber shape will improve ignition and primary combustion if we have inappropriate neck tension.

I don't necessarily buy into importance of micrometer seating stems, as they're really only relevant when changing seating depth, which I typically only do once per barrel, with thousands of rounds fired before rebarreling. A standard stem really does the same thing, just without the feedback for adjustment magnitude as the adjustments are being made.

Also, replacing seating stems with those which better fit our given bullet is an easy task, and modifying stems to perfectly fit our bullets is almost just as easy.

So I'd chase neck tension control and bullet fit to the stem, if those boxes haven't yet been checked.
Because one can absolutely size a case perfectly and then use a sloppy seating stem and make complete garbage even with the most fancy micrometer. I one hundred percent would choose a perfect cut custom stem over click adjustments.
 
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