Chain fire on Walker

Just curious, has anybody ever experienced a chain fire while using conicals?

.38 Special said:

I also note that quite a few folks cannot make a gun chain from the cone side, even when leaving the cones uncapped. My suspicion is that bare cones are far less likely to chain than are oversized and/or ovalled/pinched caps; the theory being that the skirt of such caps channels flame into the exposed priming material, which then detonates and sets off the main charge.

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I agree with you!. In that respect, those elastic tubes over percussion cups, or when combined with small pistol primers, could be viable solution.

As for protection from front side, looks like that harder lube in front of bullet is also a good solution. This works well with round ball, because it is relatively easy to apply lube where ball type bullet contacts chamber wall. However, I am skeptical that this could work reliably with streamlined conicals, because of a long, narrow gap between bullet nose and chamber wall, that is not easy to fill completely as it could be done when a round ball is used. That is the main reason I designed bullet with a groove where O-ring could be inserted, see post #48 here.

...theory being that the skirt of such caps channels flame into the exposed priming material

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I like it....

The only time I use conicals is as part of a paper cartridge. If the "powder trapped between ball and wall" theory is correct, then properly made paper cartridges should prevent the problem. (I have not had a chainfire with conicals/paper cartridges.)

As well, my cartridges are dipped into beeswax/tallow, which covers the bullet with a fairly generous and firm layer that stays put even while its neighbors are being fired. This may also help with chainfires, though I still don't see how a bit of lube is going to do better than a solid interference fit between bullet and chamber.

The same strikes me as true for a wad between powder and ball - but again assuming that there is something to the "powder trapped between ball and wall" theory, the wad may be helping not as a gasket, but as a mop to ensure no loose powder is present while loading the ball.

.38 Special said:

As well, my cartridges are dipped into beeswax/tallow, which covers the bullet with a fairly generous and firm layer that stays put even while its neighbors are being fired.

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I believe that some original cartridges were found to have traces of wax on the bullet, indicating that they were dipped.

Onty said:

This works well with round ball, because it is relatively easy to apply lube where ball type bullet contacts chamber wall. However, I am skeptical that this could work reliably with streamlined conicals, because of a long, narrow gap between bullet nose and chamber wall, that is not easy to fill completely as it could be done when a round ball is used.

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"Applying" the lube, by pressing a lube "ball" or "pill" allows you to press it into the chamber around the bullet. The lube fills the long, narrow gap. With the lube in ball or pill form, you can really press it hard over the bullet. It will squish into the gap. Using a popsickel stick would probably leave some airspace.

Ugly Sauce said:

I believe that some original cartridges were found to have traces of wax on the bullet, indicating that they were dipped.

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Yes, I researched as thoroughly as time and ability allowed, and believe I am doing things with a fair degree of historical accuracy.

They work, at any rate.

Ugly Sauce said:

I believe that some original cartridges were found to have traces of wax on the bullet, indicating that they were dipped.

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They were, but for lubrication of the bullet while firing and not to prevent chain fires.

Mizar said:

They were, but for lubrication of the bullet while firing and not to prevent chain fires.

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But perhaps...they did prevent chain fires, intentional or not. !!!! And perhaps we'll never know. !

I just started making my own .44 caliber paper cartridges for my 1860, I find that dipping them (just up to the bullet base, or a little over half the length of the ball) in pure wax certainly facilitates seating them in the chambers.

Ugly Sauce said:

But perhaps...they did prevent chain fires, intentional or not. !!!! And perhaps we'll never know. !

I just started making my own .44 caliber paper cartridges for my 1860, I find that dipping them (just up to the bullet base, or a little over half the length of the ball) in pure wax certainly facilitates seating them in the chambers.

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It’s just so darned hard to say what the folks back then considered a proper loading technique. Not much was really written down.

woodnbow said:

It’s just so darned hard to say what the folks back then considered a proper loading technique. Not much was really written down.

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I think that people back then were just as smart as we think we are now, and that they had their own "tricks" to loading like we do now. But like you sez, they didn't write home about it.

woodnbow said:

It’s just so darned hard to say what the folks back then considered a proper loading technique. Not much was really written down.

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Most of what wasn't written down was a given that everybody knew. There was no reason to write it down. Military cartridges were pretty well documented but they used conicals. Round revolver balls were used in the war but the only recorded instance I know of is how General Lee's 51 navy was loaded and even then there's no listed powder charge. Jesse James was shot with in the chest with a .36 round ball and carried it to his grave. It was recovered when they exhumed his body in IIRC 1995.

Ugly Sauce said:

I think that people back then were just as smart as we think we are now, and that they had their own "tricks" to loading like we do now. But like you sez, they didn't write home about it.

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Yeah, no Shooting Times, or Guns&Ammo to speak of…

hawg said:

It was recovered when they exhumed his body in IIRC 1995.

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Whoa! I wonder who has it now. Wonder what it would bring at auction?

hawg said:

but the only recorded instance I know of is how General Lee's 51 navy was loaded and even then there's no listed powder charge.

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If there are good photos of the ball sitting in the chamber, front view of the cylinder, I think one could make a good estimate, depending on how deeply the ball is seated. ???

Ugly Sauce said:

If there are good photos of the ball sitting in the chamber, front view of the cylinder, I think one could make a good estimate, depending on how deeply the ball is seated. ???

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It was fired 7 years after his death. It was noted the void over the balls was filled with a black waxy substance. Probably beeswax for waterproofing. So even if pics had been taken you couldn't tell how deep it was seated.

Ugly Sauce said:

Whoa! I wonder who has it now. Wonder what it would bring at auction?

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AFAIK it was reinterred with him.

hawg said:

AFAIK it was reinterred with him.

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Dang. Get us a metal detector and a couple of shovels. Meet you at the grave at midnight, under the full moon. Don't tell no one. We gonna be rich.

Ugly Sauce said:

Dang. Get us a metal detector and a couple of shovels. Meet you at the grave at midnight, under the full moon. Don't tell no one. We gonna be rich.

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So we're just going to dig up Jesse's grave and steal the ball and sell it without any provenance?

Maybe we could get Jesse to sit up and sign it for us?

hawg said:

So we're just going to dig up Jesse's grave and steal the ball and sell it without any provenance?

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That is a problem. With provenance we'll get busted. We could hold it for ransom. Naw, them G-men will get us, even though they are pretty busy chasing down political dissidents. I'm afraid we're just sure out of luck. Just when I thought I was gonna be able to buy that .44 Colt from Driftwood. Dang. Hawg, you done spoiled everything!!!!

Mk-211 said:

Maybe we could get Jesse to sit up and sign it for us?

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It would take Marie Lavou to arrange that.

I was thinking Hellboy.

That might work. !!!!!!

Hawg has mentioned the "black waxy substance" before, I wonder what it was. I bet them Southern boys had lube pills figured out. Will bee's wax turn dark over time? I don't think so. That really wasn't so long a time period. Maybe it was whale oil and bee's wax, or perhaps sooty candle wax? I guess there is no record of it's consistency. ? Could have been anything. Axle grease? Hey...if lube-over-ball was good enough for Lee, it's good enough for me.

I did some surfing to find any info on the firing of the gun in 1870, but didn't find much. Didn't really surf much. But a lot of "General Lee" "commemoratives" popped up, but none I saw looked anything like the actual pistol, which I did find some pics of. That was a nice looking '51, I'd love to have an exact replica. (no, I'm broke, don't lead me to one) I really liked the engraving on it. It was interesting that he carried it in a pommel holster when horse back, but on the belt when at HQ.

Lee died in 1870 so it would have been fired in 1877. I came across the story in a book years ago.

hawg said:

Lee died in 1870 so it would have been fired in 1877. I came across the story in a book years ago.

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The stuff I saw said it was fired in 1870, but where I read that I don't think they really knew what they was talking about. Some stuff I saw, on some "question and answer" places was really lame. People debating whether Lee was right or left handed, because they didn't understand what a cross-draw flap holster was. Sheesh.