Gunsmith or Armorer?

Sgt_Mike1 · Apr 7, 2023

MachIVshooter said:
That's another aspect I forgot to address; as soon as you start manufacturing parts - and ATF now considers threading & chambering barrels a manufacturing operation - you're supposed to be a type 07 or type 10 FFL, not an 01 or 02. The licensure isn't much more expensive, but insurance certainly can be, and also a lot of commercial leases prohibit manufacturing, especially retail properties & units. So do a lot of zoning regs, city code and HOA rules for home based guys. And ATF does check that stuff, so if your location precludes a type 07 or type 10 license, armorer type work is all you can do legally.

LOL if you recall correctly they (ATF) got the ability to do that with the test run prior of Making Type 1 FFL's remove drill presses used to Drill and tap receivers for scope bases. No one objected, no one challenged their opinion so they have slowly expanded that opinion.

If a person can't chamber or install a barrel they aren't a gunsmith, do they have to have a lathe no not really plenty of places sell a prethread barrel. But if they can't chamber or headspace a weapon they are NOT a Gunsmith.

BLACKHAWKNJ · Apr 7, 2023

In my Army days an "armorer" was basically an administrative position-a clerk whose duty position is in the arms room. A couple have told me the only things the higher ups worried about was weapons security and the paperwork, sending things out for repair was SOP.

Tinker-S · Apr 7, 2023

Varminterror said:
I can relate. I’ve had a CZ550 with a Rigby boltface sitting on my shelf for like 2 years, and now I have a massive Bat Machine action holding down the shelf beside it - won’t have a stock for that one for 9mos or more.

I do like having action rods and a barrel vise and blocks on hand to pull my own barrels. I like to have multiple barrels made at the same time, and a couple of my actions take shouldered prefits, so I can change my own barrels at my leisure. Doesn’t cost much to have a barrel vise around, and R700 action wrenches are cheap - most action rods are at least reasonable. I think I have 6 different action rods/wrenches currently - so yeah, maybe I have a bunch of money invested there since I have too many types of actions.

That's the reason I was looking for a smith to work on my rifle, I do not want to keep buying tools, but I have to admit, it is much easier to stash the tools than to send my stuff to somebody's shop. I will be buying the tools, barrel, and stock, soon.

Mauser fan · Apr 7, 2023

Tinker-S said:
Today, I was doing a search for a local gunsmith to help me out with a bolt gun, and I called the one with the best reviews and closer to me.
The call went something like this: "Hi, I would like to hire your services to remove the barrel off of my bolt gun, and install a new one."
There was a silent minute on the other end, and the owner said: "Sorry, we just work on AR style rifles, and what you need it looks like requires a lathe."
The description of the business says: "Gunsmithing services offered".
Should their business description be changed to: Armorer services offered?
I do not want to buy more wrenches that I will only use once, and so I decided to hire somebody, but after the first experience, I will probably spend the money and do it myself!
Your opinion is always appreciated, so let's hear it!

I apologize for getting to this party late.

The experience that you have shared with us is a systemic issue in the gun smithing world. I too have found myself in the same boat paddling hard against the current trends defining what is smithing and what is armor stuff. As a hobby smith myself I have found out very quickly that it is a trade that is very quickly becoming extinct. Do in large part to the endless amount of DYI YOUTUBE videos and drop in fit commercial consumer instant self gratification society we live in now.

Not many people today know how to use the machines of the trade such as a basic lathe let alone a drill press effectively because it has become a lost skill. The point to making that statement is spelled out in the response the shop owner gave to you when seeking the services he was offering which is armorer stuff not gun-smithing services. But that is just my opinion. I wouldn't be able to recommend that he change his business description just maybe the services offered need to be more clearly defined based upon the business capability.

I'm sure that you aren't the first person who has gathered this impression of that business which has probably earned a bad review from you. Which the owner could've avoided by saying to you for example: I don't have the capability to do what you are asking but here is a phone # and a name of someone I know who does.

What action wrench and barrel vise are you seeking? I'm just curious in the interest of keeping this thread going for a while.

Tinker-S · Apr 7, 2023

Mauser fan said:
I apologize for getting to this party late.

The experience that you have shared with us is a systemic issue in the gun smithing world. I too have found myself in the same boat paddling hard against the current trends defining what is smithing and what is armor stuff. As a hobby smith myself I have found out very quickly that it is a trade that is very quickly becoming extinct. Do in large part to the endless amount of DYI YOUTUBE videos and drop in fit commercial consumer instant self gratification society we live in now.

Not many people today know how to use the machines of the trade such as a basic lathe let alone a drill press effectively because it has become a lost skill. The point to making that statement is spelled out in the response the shop owner gave to you when seeking the services he was offering which is armorer stuff not gun-smithing services. But that is just my opinion. I wouldn't be able to recommend that he change his business description just maybe the services offered need to be more clearly defined based upon the business capability.

I'm sure that you aren't the first person who has gathered this impression of that business which has probably earned a bad review from you. Which the owner could've avoided by saying to you for example: I don't have the capability to do what you are asking but here is a phone # and a name of someone I know who does.

What action wrench and barrel vise are you seeking? I'm just curious in the interest of keeping this thread going for a while.

One to remove a Rem700 action, and to replace the barrel with a RemAge type thing. I know this should not be a difficult task, but I was pushing the "Easy button". I will purchase the tools, because I just purchased a new Rem700 action, and I will install the barrel myself when parts are available.

Gunsmith or Armorer?

Sgt_Mike1

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BLACKHAWKNJ

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Tinker-S

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Mauser fan

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Tinker-S

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