Aggressive drivers

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Bcwitt

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An apearent uptick in brandishing along I95 in the Philadelphia area is the inspiration for this one. Actually all highways in that area (76, 422, 676, 1, 202,etc.) are noted for unfriendlys. What would it be like to have an armed engaugment @ 60 mph? If you "prevailed", even if you can prove self defense, & the other guy crashes & causes a death, are you liable for manslaughter? Of course you disengauge to the best of your ability, but when you are pulling a laden trailer, you have much less ability to manuver then your assailant. What would be the rammifications of taking defensive action here? Other options besides risking bullets in the on comming lane are prefered. Thank you for your serious consideration.
 
An apearent uptick in brandishing along I95 in the Philadelphia area is the inspiration for this one. Actually all highways in that area (76, 422, 676, 1, 202,etc.) are noted for unfriendlys. What would it be like to have an armed engaugment @ 60 mph? If you "prevailed", even if you can prove self defense, & the other guy crashes & causes a death, are you liable for manslaughter? Of course you disengauge to the best of your ability, but when you are pulling a laden trailer, you have much less ability to manuver then your assailant. What would be the rammifications of taking defensive action here? Other options besides risking bullets in the on comming lane are prefered. Thank you for your serious consideration.

Armed response to a threat is becoming much more of a “crapshoot” than in times past.
I’m thinking first call 911with location, direction, and situation.
Photos and dash cam footage (especially if you can get license plate) are priceless for documenting events in case you have to resort to armed response…at least you have evidence that you tried everything else first.
 
As a thought exercise only . . .

When driving along side a target moving the same speed as yourself, both at 60 mph, how much do you have to lead the target to hit the target? Many road rage shootings that I've heard of on the news report the folks in the back seat getting hit. So, was the shooter aiming at the driver but the bullets were hitting behind the driver?

Anyway, it's never good to do anything to escalate the situation and one should learn how to develop on-the-fly disengagement plans. With calls to 911 if necessary.

You can snap cell phone photos of license plates, etc. But that's risky for driving sake as well as that has actually led to escalation in some cases.

If I was pulling a trailer, I'd just have to give friendly waves and let the other person move on. Take the finger, the horn, the cussin' and let it pass by you. Go back to sippin' some coffee and try to enjoy the trip.
 
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Armed response to a threat is becoming much more of a “crapshoot” than in times past.
I’m thinking first call 911with location, direction, and situation.
Photos and dash cam footage (especially if you can get license plate) are priceless for documenting events in case you have to resort to armed response…at least you have evidence that you tried everything else first.

A dash cam and a calm outward attitude are probably the best things to have.
 
To qualify my statements somewhat, I've lived in the Houston area since 1972 when my parents brought me here at age 7. I've been a traveling service tech since 1995 and travel mostly to Dallas-Ft. Worth, Austin, San Antonio, and other parts of the state. Including the greater Houston area, of course.

Since the pandemic, LEOs set up less speed traps than before. Due to this, 60 mph is slow enough to be a road hazard on a highway or tollway. People throughout Texas tend to go 10 to 20 mph over the speed limit. That means 80 in a 60, 95 in a 75 or higher. People are downright nuts out there, but learn to appreciate the smooth fast drivers that present no immediate danger to you and let them move on down the road. And stay clear of the wack jobs.

What I know is that the local news of any of those cities mentioned above start every morning and every evening broadcast with shootings. It's enough to make one super paranoid. For me, the best thing to do is be prepared and acknowledge that crap happens. But turn off the gawd dang local news and try to lead a normal, peaceful life.
 
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As a thought exercise only . . .

When driving along side a target moving the same speed as yourself, both at 60 mph, how much do you have to lead the target to hit the target? Many road rage shootings that I've heard of on the news report the folks in the back seat getting hit. So, was the shooter aiming at the driver but the bullets were hitting behind the driver?
I'm not experienced at shooting from a moving vehicle so this is just my guess. Once the bullet leaves the muzzle it ceases to move sideways and behaves as if you fired it from a stationary position, so lead is going to depend how far the target is, just as it would if you were not moving. Someone with more ballistics/physics knowledge can correct me. (As you say, just an interesting physics problem. I'm not suggesting someone should try this on the highways of Philly.)
 
An agressive driver appears on your left side after circling your vehicle (approx 10 oclock position) The tinted window goes down & you are looking @ the business end. This happens often. The State Trooper I made contact with affirmed it. Please remember, when pulling a trailer, you can neither accellerate away nor brake quickly. Changing lanes in traffic is often just not practicable. The camera is on the way, but that dosent keep you from getting shot.
 
An agressive driver appears on your left side after circling your vehicle (approx 10 oclock position) The tinted window goes down & you are looking @ the business end. This happens often. The State Trooper I made contact with affirmed it. Please remember, when pulling a trailer, you can neither accellerate away nor brake quickly. Changing lanes in traffic is often just not practicable. The camera is on the way, but that dosent keep you from getting shot.
What did the State Trooper suggest doing? If you have good trailer brakes and are not overloaded, braking quickly is still doable.
 
I think this situation - especially with modern lawyers - is best handled defensively with cover, concealment, and documentation. It sounds like you're in an 18-wheeler with an elevated cab.

If you own the vehicle, you can add some kevlar blankets to the driver's door (cover) - it will probably disrupt the windows from rolling down and cause other problems. The likelihood of being hit on purpose from a moving vehicle, even at such close range, is pretty low.

Perhaps some tinting or reflective coating on that glass will also make it difficult for the aggressor to aim for you effectively (concealment). Having a "dash cam" facing that side should help with documentation to support your defense.

Your vehicle really is a larger and more effective weapon than a pistol. Even moving at a slow 25 MPH it takes a machine gunner some time to learn how to lead a target - tracers help. I'm not sure I have ever seen a report of a highway shooting where the intended target was hit while the vehicles were moving. It is always someone adjacent to the target.
 
I'm not experienced at shooting from a moving vehicle so this is just my guess. Once the bullet leaves the muzzle it ceases to move sideways and behaves as if you fired it from a stationary position, so lead is going to depend how far the target is, just as it would if you were not moving. Someone with more ballistics/physics knowledge can correct me. (As you say, just an interesting physics problem. I'm not suggesting someone should try this on the highways of Philly.)
A bullet fired out the side of a moving vehicle will come out with a sideways velocity matching the vehicle... it would look like a normal trajectory from the perspective of the moving vehicle, but from a stationary observer the bullet is drifting sideways at whatever the vehicle's speed was, as it moves downrange.

However, you would still need to lead a target, not because of the physics, but because of the very strong crosswind. Shooting out the side of a vehicle moving at 60mph, would be exactly like shooting stationary with a 60mph crosswind. Same visual trajectory from the standpoint of the shooter.
 
Engaging with a firearm at 60mph is incredibly reckless. The chances of being able to hit anything is very unlikely and being able to hit while not crashing is nearly impossible.

How do you train for this? How do you have any clue where your bullets are going on a highway with other people flying by in both directions? What happens if you shoot and the other driver loses control and kills someone?

Be a courteous and respectful driver and pay attention and you'll be fine. If someone is being an idiot nearby speed up or slow down or take an exit to get away from them.
 
An agressive driver appears on your left side after circling your vehicle (approx 10 oclock position)
If this is the trailer scenario and you're going slower than the rest of traffic then it shouldn't have been possible for the driver to circle your vehicle without using the right shoulder. If you aren't going slower than the rest of the traffic, there's no reason for him to be upset with you.*

There's only one rule for minimizing risk from road-ragers. Don't do stuff you know is going to make some people angry.

This is not about what you have a RIGHT to do, it's about what keeps your risk the lowest. It doesn't make sense to ignore the risk at first and then suddenly, part way through the scenario to try to start minimizing your risk at that point. When it's all over, other people will look at the scenario and make decisions about what led up to the incident and any evidence that you contributed to the situation will count against you to at least some extent.

Don't drive slower than the rest of traffic without being in the right lane.
If someone wants to get past you, let them past as soon as it is safe.
Don't honk at people to vent your feelings, use your horn only to alert someone of an impending accident or safety issue.
Use your turn signal.
Merge as soon as is safe/legal and/or wait in line to merge, don't drive to the front of the line and try to push your way in.
Don't tailgate.
Don't gesture angrily at other drivers.
Don't cut people off.
Don't try to take revenge when another driver irritates you.
Pay attention to the road--it's usually possible to see situations developing and take steps to prevent them from turning into confrontations.
No need to make a complete list, we all know what's on it.

*If you are worried about the scenario where you are driving courteously and some crazy person still threatens you with a gun then you do only what is absolutely required to survive, doing your absolute best to not endanger other innocents (because that's always the right thing to do) and hope that you can survive the legal aftermath. That said, the advice I've seen is trying to shoot while driving is problematic.
 
I think this situation - especially with modern lawyers - is best handled defensively with cover, concealment, and documentation. It sounds like you're in an 18-wheeler with an elevated cab.

If you own the vehicle, you can add some kevlar blankets to the driver's door (cover) - it will probably disrupt the windows from rolling down and cause other problems. The likelihood of being hit on purpose from a moving vehicle, even at such close range, is pretty low.

Perhaps some tinting or reflective coating on that glass will also make it difficult for the aggressor to aim for you effectively (concealment). Having a "dash cam" facing that side should help with documentation to support your defense.

Your vehicle really is a larger and more effective weapon than a pistol. Even moving at a slow 25 MPH it takes a machine gunner some time to learn how to lead a target - tracers help. I'm not sure I have ever seen a report of a highway shooting where the intended target was hit while the vehicles were moving. It is always someone adjacent to the target.
Is a service truck w a utility trailer. Approx 40' combined. I was hauling steel tubing & flat bar stock. Sudden braking w steel bars can send them foreward w even the best rigging. My trailer brakes really well, but ill never be able to outmanuver a Toyota.
 
Engaging with a firearm at 60mph is incredibly reckless. The chances of being able to hit anything is very unlikely and being able to hit while not crashing is nearly impossible.

How do you train for this? How do you have any clue where your bullets are going on a highway with other people flying by in both directions? What happens if you shoot and the other driver loses control and kills someone?

Be a courteous and respectful driver and pay attention and you'll be fine. If someone is being an idiot nearby speed up or slow down or take an exit to get away from them.
That is the point i was hoping to get across. Is a very dangerous situation. A bullet that misses the target would cross opposing traffic. Armoured windows, perhaps?
 
An agressive driver appears on your left side after circling your vehicle (approx 10 oclock position) The tinted window goes down & you are looking @ the business end. This happens often. The State Trooper I made contact with affirmed it. Please remember, when pulling a trailer, you can neither accellerate away nor brake quickly. Changing lanes in traffic is often just not practicable. The camera is on the way, but that dosent keep you from getting shot.

So, the passenger rolls down the window to launch lead? Sounds like a planned retaliation or a threat to make you pull over for a robbery. Sure would be interesting to know what the State Trooper said is the primary cause.

Every time I've seen road rage, it's the driver's that are ticked off. The passengers (if any) tend to look like they want no part of it.
 
If this is the trailer scenario and you're going slower than the rest of traffic then it shouldn't have been possible for the driver to circle your vehicle without using the right shoulder. If you aren't going slower than the rest of the traffic, there's no reason for him to be upset with you.*

There's only one rule for minimizing risk from road-ragers. Don't do stuff you know is going to make some people angry.

This is not about what you have a RIGHT to do, it's about what keeps your risk the lowest. It doesn't make sense to ignore the risk at first and then suddenly, part way through the scenario to try to start minimizing your risk at that point. When it's all over, other people will look at the scenario and make decisions about what led up to the incident and any evidence that you contributed to the situation will count against you to at least some extent.

Don't drive slower than the rest of traffic without being in the right lane.
If someone wants to get past you, let them past as soon as it is safe.
Don't honk at people to vent your feelings, use your horn only to alert someone of an impending accident or safety issue.
Use your turn signal.
Merge as soon as is safe/legal and/or wait in line to merge, don't drive to the front of the line and try to push your way in.
Don't tailgate.
Don't gesture angrily at other drivers.
Don't cut people off.
Don't try to take revenge when another driver irritates you.
Pay attention to the road--it's usually possible to see situations developing and take steps to prevent them from turning into confrontations.
No need to make a complete list, we all know what's on it.

*If you are worried about the scenario where you are driving courteously and some crazy person still threatens you with a gun then you do only what is absolutely required to survive, doing your absolute best to not endanger other innocents (because that's always the right thing to do) and hope that you can survive the legal aftermath. That said, the advice I've seen is trying to shoot while driving is problematic.
Its not very safe to take cover when driving either. Not an easy solution either way.
 
If this is the trailer scenario and you're going slower than the rest of traffic then it shouldn't have been possible for the driver to circle your vehicle without using the right shoulder. If you aren't going slower than the rest of the traffic, there's no reason for him to be upset with you.*

There's only one rule for minimizing risk from road-ragers. Don't do stuff you know is going to make some people angry.

This is not about what you have a RIGHT to do, it's about what keeps your risk the lowest. It doesn't make sense to ignore the risk at first and then suddenly, part way through the scenario to try to start minimizing your risk at that point. When it's all over, other people will look at the scenario and make decisions about what led up to the incident and any evidence that you contributed to the situation will count against you to at least some extent.

Don't drive slower than the rest of traffic without being in the right lane.
If someone wants to get past you, let them past as soon as it is safe.
Don't honk at people to vent your feelings, use your horn only to alert someone of an impending accident or safety issue.
Use your turn signal.
Merge as soon as is safe/legal and/or wait in line to merge, don't drive to the front of the line and try to push your way in.
Don't tailgate.
Don't gesture angrily at other drivers.
Don't cut people off.
Don't try to take revenge when another driver irritates you.
Pay attention to the road--it's usually possible to see situations developing and take steps to prevent them from turning into confrontations.
No need to make a complete list, we all know what's on it.

*If you are worried about the scenario where you are driving courteously and some crazy person still threatens you with a gun then you do only what is absolutely required to survive, doing your absolute best to not endanger other innocents (because that's always the right thing to do) and hope that you can survive the legal aftermath. That said, the advice I've seen is trying to shoot while driving is problematic.

And keep your eyes off the smart phone. Put the phone in a dash mount or windshield mount and use bluetooth or earbuds.

Lots of folks get so tied up in their phones that they don't realize they almost ran someone off the road. I've seen it in work trucks, 18 wheelers, bobtails, and service vans just as much as passenger vehicles.

In fact I saw a roll off truck run off the road a dually pulling a trailer many years ago. That roll off truck hauled butt, while I followed to get photos of it. Then I returned to the scene of the wreck to give that info to the victims and the cops. I was the only non-biased witness.
 
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