P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Thank Pax for your mod comments - unfortunately as I mentioned on this post of mine we always seem to finish up with ''them and us'' on any LE posts - eventually!
Outrage of the Week
- Thread starter Flyboy
- Start date
- Status
hrb02
Member
There are bad apples in every profession--ever hear of a teacher molesting his/her students 
. That does NOT imply that every hard-working, honest teacher has wandering hands--nor should it.
Same goes for LEOs. Let's not extrapolate from an extremely tiny sample and draw conclusions that are flat out wrong. It is not only unfair to the "good apples," but shows some questionable judgement on our part, IMHO.
. That does NOT imply that every hard-working, honest teacher has wandering hands--nor should it.Same goes for LEOs. Let's not extrapolate from an extremely tiny sample and draw conclusions that are flat out wrong. It is not only unfair to the "good apples," but shows some questionable judgement on our part, IMHO.
rdbrowning
Member
A month or so ago I heard a similar story out of KY. I wrote it off as an exageration. In that case the "drug dealer" was taken out to a squad car with only his pants on, no shoes, no shirt, no coat. There he sat for 2-1/2 hours. Alegedly the cops put his shoes in a 5 gallon bucket, poured lighter fluid on them and set them on fire the bragged that he did it because he could and that there was nothing the bad guy could do about it. When they finally got to the jail his hands were purple from the cuffs being to tight and he could not grip from having his tumbs over extended in a "sumbission" hold. Now this story sounds too similar.
DRZinn
Member
Every time a thread pops up about police misconduct, real or imagined, there's a chorus of voices urging us all not to paint all cops with the same brush, often before anyone has done so!
carebear
Member
So we have cops committing a criminal act, there's evidence to prove it, the system is on it as far as taking them to task, the press is on it to keep it from being swept under the rug...
Where's the big deal?
There a bad cops, they need to be dealt with per the law when discovered. In this case they are. Whoop-de-frikin'-do.
Just another example of the sustem working and why we, as a country, continue to be better than most of the world.
Where's the big deal?
There a bad cops, they need to be dealt with per the law when discovered. In this case they are. Whoop-de-frikin'-do.
Just another example of the sustem working and why we, as a country, continue to be better than most of the world.
Upon rereading-
1. They've been fired already
and
2. Are under federal indictment and are about to plead guilty.
I'm as horrified as anyone else by this, but its a good example of the system working. Running with the (pretty solid) assumption that everything is as it seems, I'm glad they're gone.
Mike
1. They've been fired already
and
2. Are under federal indictment and are about to plead guilty.
I'm as horrified as anyone else by this, but its a good example of the system working. Running with the (pretty solid) assumption that everything is as it seems, I'm glad they're gone.
Mike
spartacus2002
Member
This Behavior Has Been Sponsored By The War On Drugs, Coming To Your Home Soon.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: The cure is worse than the disease. End the War on Drugs NOW.
And don't tell me it's for the cheeeeeeeeeeeeeldren. NEWS FLASH: YOUR KIDS CAN GET POT AND COCAINE EASIER THAN THEY CAN GET CIGARETTES AND BOOZE.
I've said it before, I'll say it again: The cure is worse than the disease. End the War on Drugs NOW.
And don't tell me it's for the cheeeeeeeeeeeeeldren. NEWS FLASH: YOUR KIDS CAN GET POT AND COCAINE EASIER THAN THEY CAN GET CIGARETTES AND BOOZE.
Flyboy
Member
Yes, it's working this time. However, I'm forced to wonder: would it have worked sans audiocasette? rdbrowning, in a previous post, said he heard a similar story, and dismissed it out-of-hand. We are naturally inclined to do so, because we are naturally inclined to believe that police are good people (and the vast majority of them, in fact, are); what, then, of the people who actually are victimized by police, but don't have this sort of evidence?
Here's an experiment for you: go out on the street and start videotaping cops. See how quickly you get stopped. I know somebody who went to jail for that very reason (and was quickly released). Since we're predisposed toward believing that the police are our friends, and wouldn't do such things (as is the case for most of them), how do we protect the rights of citizens without resorting to wearing tape recorders around our necks? Who watches the watchers?
Ok. That's not true. Don't squander a good argument with obvious hyperbole. It makes it so much easier to dismiss you completely.
Flyboy-
It would not have been nearly as clearcut without the evidence. Nothing ever is. Cops record stuff for the same reason- its so much easier to prove guilt or innocence with a recording.
The point is that this behaviour is rare, but catching it thus is not as rare as you might think. If you do this kind of crap more than a few times, someone is gonna set you up for a fall. Perhaps it is the "scumbag" on the street, perhaps it is Internal Affairs, perhaps it is a PI, perhaps it is another agency working a case. One way or the other, though, you will get caught, and the sooner the better. You think that the woman in the story randomly started the recorder? No siree. She knew these guys, and she set them up.
As to who watches the watchers...who polices the police? Internal Affairs. And while they might be cheese-eating rats, they perform a valuable function. Speaking as an officer from a department with a very active IA, I'm glad they're there.
Mike
LiquidTension
Member
Coronach - I have to agree with Spartacus. In high school it was MUCH easier to get pot, coke, and acid than it was to get alcohol. This is because drugs are already illegal, therefore there is no incentive not to sell to minors. Alcohol, on the other hand, only carries a penalty for selling to minors. It was waaaay easier to get a bag of weed from someone than to have someone go to the store and transfer alcohol to you. So you see, it's not hyperbole...that's just the way it is.
As for the cops, hopefully they will go to jail. I'm told that cops get the worst treatment from other inmates in jail, and these guys deserve it, IMO. It's guys like this that ruin it for the good cops.
As for the cops, hopefully they will go to jail. I'm told that cops get the worst treatment from other inmates in jail, and these guys deserve it, IMO. It's guys like this that ruin it for the good cops.
EVIL5LITER
Member
In response to the argument against the War on Drugs:
What about meth? Do you just suggest we quit trying to bust methlabs?
I live in a nice, moderate income suburban neighborhood, or as nice as one gets in Alabama. It's not especially rural, but it does have it's fair share of low income families (household below 30k a year).
I would guess with approximately 500 family dwellings in this neighborhood, there are probably at least 5 methlabs in this neighborhood alone, with one very possibly being across the street from me.
Now, I do rent, and I plan on moving out to the boonies when it comes time to buy a house/land, but without a war on drugs, I have no hope but to do something akin to a Charles Bronson style "Deathwish" movie to get rid of ???? like this from my neighborhood.
Is this really what the public at large wants?
What about meth? Do you just suggest we quit trying to bust methlabs?
I live in a nice, moderate income suburban neighborhood, or as nice as one gets in Alabama. It's not especially rural, but it does have it's fair share of low income families (household below 30k a year).
I would guess with approximately 500 family dwellings in this neighborhood, there are probably at least 5 methlabs in this neighborhood alone, with one very possibly being across the street from me.
Now, I do rent, and I plan on moving out to the boonies when it comes time to buy a house/land, but without a war on drugs, I have no hope but to do something akin to a Charles Bronson style "Deathwish" movie to get rid of ???? like this from my neighborhood.
Is this really what the public at large wants?
rock jock
Member
What a shame. The good cops in this dept. are going to be saddled with the rep these morons have laid at their feet.
Flyboy
Member
I think this is a case where the question doesn't do justice to the problem: it's not "should we stop busting methlabs," it's "what can we do to make the problem that methlabs pose go away?"
Methlabs are a very inefficient way to make methamphetamines. The cost (before trying to figure in risk) is around $0.50 or more per pill for a small operation, $0.25 for a larger operation.
Want to shut down the meth labs? Pharmaceutical companies make the stuff for between $0.01 and $0.005 per pill, and it can come in a little plastic wrapper like cold tablets for $0.03 per pill.
Meth labs are dangerous (especially if you have high chemists), they bring around "protection" and vagrancy in a local area. If you want to eliminate this, just start making it legal to sell it. The pharmas will shut down the methlabs in a few months.
If you want to debate the rate of drug addiction caused by legalization, or the social cost, etc, that's a different debate entirely.
My point is that you can shut down the meth labs and most of the trouble they cause - you just won't consider a possibility.
"Have anything besides rhetoric to back this claim up, "quotations" or no? Comments like that are incendiary and hardly an example of taking the High Road."
I'll suggest that you, too, familiarize yourself with the use of quote marks to form an ironic statement, one that is at loggerheads with the apparent meaning of the sentence.
I'll refer you to the same Wikipedia selection.
No, I suppose I should explain slowly and clearly...
"Police" who engage in illegal activities are nothing more than uncaught criminals, hence the use of quotes around the word police.
Engaging in illegal activities is SOP for uncaught criminals.
It wouldn't matter if they were dealing drugs, shaking down people for money, whatever.
Since they're police officers engaging in illegal activites, they're "police."
Oh, I know, the blue wall, brotherhood, protect your brothers at any cost, no matter what...
I'll suggest that you, too, familiarize yourself with the use of quote marks to form an ironic statement, one that is at loggerheads with the apparent meaning of the sentence.
I'll refer you to the same Wikipedia selection.
No, I suppose I should explain slowly and clearly...
"Police" who engage in illegal activities are nothing more than uncaught criminals, hence the use of quotes around the word police.
Engaging in illegal activities is SOP for uncaught criminals.
It wouldn't matter if they were dealing drugs, shaking down people for money, whatever.
Since they're police officers engaging in illegal activites, they're "police."
Oh, I know, the blue wall, brotherhood, protect your brothers at any cost, no matter what...
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Thing here is - the only ''bashing'' should be just toward the bad apples ... no one could condone what it seems they did. No problem there for me.
The reality is - sometimes - the ''bashing'' can and does go beyond just the (few) bad apples ... and those should not be allowed to contaminate the majority - who are good guys. That is why the ''bashing'' is so often seen as non THR.
As per news - the bad is always newsworthy (sells copy!) - good things rarely get seen or reported as such. I try to remain an optimist!
The reality is - sometimes - the ''bashing'' can and does go beyond just the (few) bad apples ... and those should not be allowed to contaminate the majority - who are good guys. That is why the ''bashing'' is so often seen as non THR.
As per news - the bad is always newsworthy (sells copy!) - good things rarely get seen or reported as such. I try to remain an optimist!
Can we avoid another inane pointless discussion on legalizing drugs? The people who are convinced of one side or the other wont have their minds changed.
If we've milked this for all its worth (and I think we have) let's just learn to live together and move on.
- Status
