teach me something ... problem with a sig

Dang........you got me....

Got me too Pax ... I would have to study my internals (the P226 that is!) ... to work that out. Maybe Ala Dan, Cslinger et al may happen by - being ''SIGophiles, they might know more - I am just a SIG newbie!!

If it was a P-239, my guess is that when the shooter was shooting single action, their strong hand thumb (right handed) was high on the grip and holding the slide stop down. We had a 239 for a rental and it was a common problem with the smaller single stack grip. Maybe they moved it when shooting DA.

got me!

David

I have a P228 and have shot a few other models. I've completely broken mine down on many occassions for detailed strip cleanings, so I have a pretty good idea of how they work.

Still...I have no clue why that gun would lock back only in DA. As the gun fires, it is in the exact same condition whether or not it was fired DA or SA, so it should act exactly the same after being fired.
Maybe He's got a bad mag spring and just out of pure luck (or bad luck) it locks back only when he shoots it DA.

Hmmmm

Just a thought...Possibly the difference in the shooter's grip. Tighter in DA...
Looser in SA, and a short recoil issue with a looser grip. I tend to choke up on a pistol when firing it in the DA mode...on the rare occasions that I shoot a DAO or DA/SA autopistol...and always when using a DA revolver.

But of course!

I know! I know what it is!


...Worms...

Seriously though...Does it do that little trick when somebody else shoots it?

Pax....I'm gonna say shooter grip. There is no mechanical reason I can thing of that would cause a slide to lock back based upon trigger action. I think she is making a slight adjustment in grip to compensate for the longer/shorter pull.

Now that I've solved this one....on to the Kennedy Assasination thingy.

I think the first clue is the word "her". That implies a shooter with smaller hands and arms and so less resistance to the recoil ("limp wristing" is one term used).

But when shooting DA, the grip is tighter on the gun. It has to be since the gun is being "squeezed" harder due to the longer, harder DA pull. That tends to taughten the forearm muscles and make the wrist joint stiffer. The result is more resistance to the recoil. The frame is more braced, so the slide is able to recoil its full travel and lock back normally.

Jim

Sexism. Shame, shame. I'd guess a difference in grip too, but not because a woman was shooting.

pax,

I admit not being Sig "informed". ruling out shooter's error - My thinking runs to something mechanical that only occurs when fired in DA. I don't know how new this gun the lady has. Perhaps a detailed strip and clean might reveal a burr, pc of brass/powder where it does not belong. Springs come to mind as well.

Did this occur with the same mag or different ones? If same - I would see if a burr or something else in not fitting as should. Ammo - if the same should not caused the problem - different types "could" have.

I'm sure you thought of all this including the chamber and extraction being in good order.

My limited Sig experiences were with 220's and I just shot 'em . I let someone else do the inspect and maintain. I did the same with other platforms.

I know the answer:

SIG recoil springs are notoriously stiff when new. My new 226R .40 would NEVER lock back on the last round until I had shot maybe 400 rounds through it.

The "DA" vs "SA" thing is likely this: when firing DA, you grip the gun tighter so it is held more solidly... hence more recoil force goes to slide motion and less to gun rocking back. That could get the slide far enough to make the catch.

If it was a lady, I would have been surprised if it DID lock back.

My thinking runs to something mechanical that only occurs when fired in DA.

Click to expand...

I won't call myself an expert, but I've detail stripped my 229 many times and all classic non DAK Sigs excluding the 232 have the same trigger/operating design.

The gun is in the exact same mechanical condition after every shot, no matter how it was fired, so it shouldn't be doing anything different.
It has to be user error or just plain bad luck.

After replacing all the springs in my 228 for regular maintenance I've fired it while intentionally limp wristing it and had no lockback problems. My girlfriend, who doesn't shoot much and isn't very strong (actually she even has a degenerative neuromuscular disease that makes her even weaker sometimes), shot it too and she's never had any problems at all.

Pax, any new info on the gun or shooter?

pax, I would re-attempt with with a different shooter before tearing into the gun to test for shooter induced problems. Limp wristing isn't a strictly female problem. I saw a few big burly male Marines induce failures at Quantico. I can't think of any mechanically caused problems that would be related to DA/SA shooting with Sigs. Let us know what you find out.

Based on the information provided I would surmise the following is happening. The shooter is holding the pistol in such a way that she is applying downward pressure on the slide release lever. This is preventing the slide from locking back in SA mode. However, when firing DA, she shifts her grip so she can press down on the dedocking lever in order to drop the hammer back into DA mode after each shot. Her thumb may be riding the dedocking lever when she is shooting DA and then riding the slide release when in SA.

I tend to choke up on a pistol when firing it in the DA mode...

Click to expand...

Tuner, is this based on the same theory that tells us to squeeze the remote control harder when the channel does not change?

Seriously, a change in grip is the only explanation I can think of. I have never experienced this when shooting any of my SIG's, but then I have never been able to induce a "limp-wrist" malfunction in anything, even if I only fired it with thumb and 2 fingers.

I am not King Kong, either.

Still, I had a little .22 auto once upon a time that would feed for everyone else, but when I fired it, the shell would jump over the top of the chamber. It did not matter how I varied my grip, either.

I've had this problem with a couple different new shooters with Sig's aas well as other's. I've never been able to duplicate the problem when I was shooting the gun, except with one 1911 that some one had been into. (Aftermarket recoil buffer, spring and slide stop) Which, normally, leads me to believe that the shooter is limp wristing or "thumbing" the gun.

The first thing I usually do is to take the gun, field strip it and lubricate it. I've seen to many guns (Sig and other wise) that are bone dry when they are shooting them. After that I run atleast 50 rounds through the gun before I'm willing to blame the malfunction on the firearm and not the shooter.

How can you have the same problem in a 1911 if you can't shoot the 1911 in DA?

Depending on how you define 1911 it is possible to shoot one DA.

There was the Seecamp conversion. For years, I saw these kits available at gn shows, and was too stupid to bite.

There is the Para-Ordnance LDA type pistols. Not exactly traditional DA type action, but who am I to complain?

There was also something called the Caraville Arms conversion. Neither fish nor fowl, nor good red beef!

Truly, there is nothing new under the Sun!