Shot my first IDPA match this morning

What's up with the $35 annual IDPA membership fee?

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Not much. Techincally you are supposed to be an IDPA member to shoot in matches, but I have yet to find a club that enforced this rule.
You do however, need to be a member to get classified. This puts you in a group of other shooters of similar ability. It also allows you to shoot in santioned matches (state, regional, national events).
Whether it is worth the $35 really depends on what you want to get out of it. If you begin shooting it a lot you will probably want to consider a membership. If it is something for recreation, you may decide you don't need it.

Your dues and club affiliation fees are IDPA's only income, they don't get part of the entry money as some outfits do. Bill W. isn't getting rich off of you, there is an office and several employees to support.

There is not much to do about the hurry up and wait of an IDPA (IPSC, SASS) match. Only one shooter can shoot at a time, per stage or bay, and that is just naturally a slow process.
Anybody who wants to stay active all the time should shoot Highpower rifle matches, you are either shooting, scoring, or pulling targets; but seldom idle.

Ummmmmmmmmm......

If there are 14,000 IDPA members @ 35.00 each thats $490,000.00/year, plus you must buy IDPA targets which I'm sure King Bill gets a piece of...If his three office ladies eat up that much overhead each year, I want a job at IDPA headquarters.

I don't really care if King Bill makes money off IDPA...I just wish he wouldn't pretend not to make anything, that's the rub. He acts like it is a big hassle that he makes nothing from, but the math don't add up. He may not make anything, but I bet his wife gets a BIG check every payday...

I read with much disgust the interview with Masaad Ayoob in the Tactical Journal, and upon completion of the article decided NOT to renew my 5 year old membership.

IDPA at the local level is absolutely the best bang for your buck, just don't expect much from Bill Wilson or IDPA Headquarters for your $35.00/year

Only complaints - It was REALLy hot and the squad was so big (13) that it took forever to get through each stage.

I'm afraid I'm going to like shooting in matches a little too much . . .

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I think 10-12 is about the max size squad that runs fast. 8 is perfect in my opinion. Glad you had fun. Competition in any form really shows how good you are. If you practice the necessary skills alittle with dryfire you will be jumping over people in the standings faster than you can imagine.

How do you know?

Your dues and club affiliation fees are IDPA's only income, they don't get part of the entry money as some outfits do. Bill W. isn't getting rich off of you, there is an office and several employees to support.---Jim Watson

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Jim Watson,

Do you have any information on IDPA income/expenses?

I've heard (but I don't know) that IDPA is a trailer parked on Wilson Combat land, and several part time workers. I've also heard that Bill Wilson doesn't/won't release financial data with regard to IDPA.


How do you know what Mr. Wilson is making directly or indirectly off of IDPA (Wilson Guns and accessories not included)? Doesn't IDPA get something from the sponsors?

What do you base your statement on?


Respectfully,

jkelly

Well, I have seen a picture of IDPA HQ showing a permanent sheetmetal building as common to many small businesses. I had the idea, right or wrong, that staff included Dru and three clerks. I don't know how well they are paid, whether the BOD gets much (I know the ACs don't.) or how much the Wilsons take out. I doubt it is a lot compared to income from a well-reputed gun company.

I am not going to set myself up as judge of excess profits. $35 a year is a very small part of my shooting budget and it is worth it to me just to rub shoulders with the good shooters at sanctioned matches. I also maintain USPSA membership although I have not shot IPSC in a couple of years, likewise I pay dues to SASS and a local club for about a quarterly Cowboy shoot. Of course I am an NRA member and cheerfully pay $12.50 a year for my scorebook to shoot some of their matches.

I am not going to base anything on what Massad Ayoob writes, I learned better than that years ago at the cost of two guns screwed up by shops he recommended.

Jim Watson said:

Anybody who wants to stay active all the time should shoot Highpower rifle matches, you are either shooting, scoring, or pulling targets; but seldom idle.

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...or Bullseye, and that even has the advantage of allowing you to shoot pistol instead of rifle.

Jim,

I wanted to know if your statement was based on factual information of IDPA financies or if you were guessing like everyone else (me too).



Respectfully,

jkelly

JD,

You are right, I was speculating in excess of evidence.
I still say Bill W. is not getting rich on IDPA cash flow and don't care anyhow.

Igloo,

Well, yes, I used to shoot PPC and there is a higher ratio of shooting to milling, even though there is no pit duty. But it is not exciting, and it is hard.

You are right, I was speculating in excess of evidence.---Jim Watson

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Good enough for me.

Have a Happy Fourth!


Respectfully,

jkelly

If it is registered as a non-profit organization then there should be a public finance report.

If not taxes have to be paid, which may also be public.

The biggest cost of modern organizations, are legal and insurance.

Geoff
Who accepts certain facts of life, but I do want Lawyers, as officers of our courts, limited to $25 per hour, or as much less as they care to charge.

The biggest cost of modern organizations, are legal and insurance.

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I am pretty sure personnel would be a larger cost in most businesses, at least it is with all the ones I deal with.

My ONLY complaint with IDPA is the groupings of 10mm with 9mm (Stock or Enhanced Service Postol), and .45 SAs in a pristine class all their own. Just doesn't make sense to me.

Other than that, I think its one of the best bangs for the buck in shooting. If it costs me $35 a year to play, I'm willing.

I agree with Walt I throw way more than $35 away every year and don't have near the fun. My only complaint is that I can't shoot more, evidenced by me not being at the last couple of local shoots.

Cheap lawyers?

Jeff -

I know this is straying a bit from the topic, but a $25/hr lawyer would not have a computer, office, legal assistant, or any law books. A friend of mine studied his costs a number of years ago and found that it took him $45.00 per hour just to keep his doors open, without taking any money out. That's every hour of the day, not just when he's billing a client.

People pay lawyers what they do because they want results. Put me up against a $25/hr lawyer and you'll save money on fees, but I hope you don't care about winning your case.

Why is it so high compared to other clubs and organizations? Most of the matches are done at the local level and charge fees. No monthly magazine. I don't need the hat.

I like the practicality of IDPA. I think they need to loosen up some of their equipment rules and charge less for annual dues.

Oh, well, I'm sending in my dues this afternoon, anyway. "


Sell the hat..Sell the rule book...who knows, you might be able to get your costs down to $15.

gengis commented: "Jeff -

I know this is straying a bit from the topic, but a $25/hr lawyer would not have a computer, office, legal assistant, or any law books. A friend of mine studied his costs a number of years ago and found that it took him $45.00 per hour just to keep his doors open, without taking any money out. That's every hour of the day, not just when he's billing a client.

People pay lawyers what they do because they want results. Put me up against a $25/hr lawyer and you'll save money on fees, but I hope you don't care about winning your case."

Hey, the legal profession is self regulating, self pricing (high) and is based on ripping off people. I say that as "Officer's of our Courts." we the people have the right to control lawyer salaries. I just want to cap them at $25 a hour, ALL LAWYERS.

I had several computers and paid a mortgage on a house with included office at less than $25 an hour, even when totaled with my wife's salary.

An hourly rate of $25.00 equates to a weekly pay of $1,000, monthly pay of $4,333, and an annual salary of $52,000. Well above the national average salary, which is:

Value Average
gross personal income $20,114.00
remaining after taxes 89.17%
state and local taxes $115.38 / $1,000 of income
state and local income taxes $35.25 / $1,000 of income
state and local sales taxes $27.76 / $1,000 of income
state and local property taxes $37.06 / $1,000 of income



Geoff
Who has to be frugle.
Who can't afford the lawyers required to actually CCW.

Lawyers

You're talking about $25/hr take home. That is not even close to the same thing as the gross amount charged to the client. My clients would not want to hire me if I didn't have access to the most current information. That means I have to pay for a computerized legal research service. I have to have a legal assistant to do everything that doesn't take a lawyer. I have to pay rent, utilities, phone service, taxes, office supplies, advertising, accounting,

People pay lawyers to do important things like recovering money, fighting for custody of their kids, keeping them free, and even keeping them from being executed. This takes lots of training and expertise, and involves a lot of collateral costs other than just paying the lawyer to do his work. We may be partially self-regulating, but we're also regulated by supply and demand. If people didn't value what we do, the expensive lawyers would starve and prices would be forced down.

I deal with lawyers on an hourly basis. There are certainly dishonest ones, even some who flat-out steal from their clients. But most lawyers I've dealt with are honest, because word quickly spreads in the profession. Much of what happens is based on trust. If everyone knows you're a liar, it will be impossible to get the simplest things done like getting a hearing delayed.

Sorry GunAdmirer

Sorry for straying so far off topic.

I hope you enjoyed your first IDPA match. I was hooked by the end of my first stage, but then I'm Extremely compulsive. I really enjoy the friends I have made in IDPA and they are truely some of the best people I have ever met. We have formed lasting friemndships that even King Bill can't destroy (as hard as he try).

I don't even mind paying the $35.00 dues. You do receive a quarterly magazine that sometimes has interesting things in it, especially those articles written by novice writers. Very raw and no sales pitch, just opinion.

But don't expect much more than that. Headquarters does nothing to support IDPA, except take your money and put on a "National" match each year, which most people have quit attending/working because King Bill can't even afford to pay for their hotel bills out of the pitance he makes from IDPA dues.

oops, there I go again...

Ghengis commented, "You're talking about $25/hr take home."

No. I'm saying "We the people" cross reference the US Constitution, have the right and responsibility to regulate lawyers. Lawyers have made themselves a vital part of the legal system, which is the Government.

Therefore, we need to set their charges at $25 per hour. No more or as much less as they care to charge.

Now, as a non-profit organization I think IDPA charging $35 a year and providing services is not unreasonable. Especially compared to lawyers who, in the case of the State of Ohio vs. the Tobacco companies worked for 30 days and got about $60,000 per hour, money that should have gone to the people of Ohio.

Geoff
Who notes that if we assume the Lawyers are right about separation of church and state, then Lawyers shouldn't be allowed in the Executive and Legislative branches of Government. Who also notes the last three lawyers in the White House were Clinton, Ford and Nixon. :banghead:

No. I'm saying "We the people" cross reference the US Constitution, have the right and responsibility to regulate lawyers. Lawyers have made themselves a vital part of the legal system, which is the Government.

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yeah, while we are at it let's trash the whole free market system. I mean really what good has it done?

Now, as a non-profit organization I think IDPA charging $35 a year and providing services is not unreasonable.

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What services are they providing exactly? and I don't think they are a non-profit.

Especially compared to lawyers who, in the case of the State of Ohio vs. the Tobacco companies worked for 30 days and got about $60,000 per hour, money that should have gone to the people of Ohio.

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Hope you like the tactic of suing a legitimate business for making a legitimate product, I am sure you will see it again.

Who notes that if we assume the Lawyers are right about separation of church and state, then Lawyers shouldn't be allowed in the Executive and Legislative branches of Government. Who also notes the last three lawyers in the White House were Clinton, Ford and Nixon.

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Like anything else in life there are good ones and bad ones. If he wins your case he tends to be good, if the other side beats you, then he tends to be bad. Looking over that constitution you refered to earlier, it seems that we already have rules concerning who we let into the branches of government.

Good lord, now the lawyers are ruining the good threads, too!!





Larry