Airsoft: Good Practice

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mattw

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With school and work and household chores it is hard for me to find alot of time to do as much live-fire practice as I would like. I have recently decided to work on everything that I can in the absence of range time. I try to practice good trigger control and sight picture and also I like to experiment with different gripping styles to find something that I can try that might improve my actual handgun shooting, heres what I've come up with as a cheap alternative to the more expensive laser systems for real firearms:

MVC-101F.gif

I bought a Tanfoglio Witness 1911 spring-operated airsoft gun a while back, mostly to shoot my friends and my neighbor's dogs when they knock over my garbage cans. It turns out to be a very accurate representation of my actual Springfield Armory Mil-Spec with the obvious exception of plastic grips and the not-so-obvious exception of weight. This plastic toy is alot lighter than my real 1911. I use this to practice trigger control, proper grip and sight picture.

Also in the picture is a grip-strengthener that I bought for $1.96 at the same store. I'm not sure if this will help with my shooting at all but I like to think that it does. I take it with me on long car trips and at the computer desk.

Also pictured is a target that came with the airsoft gun. It has a sticky plastic film over the paper so that the 12g 6mm BBs stick to it and I get a very good idea of were I am hitting. I think my mom likes it also because then there is not plastic BBs all over the house and I'm not shooting at anything that will get broken. (I know it must sound like I am a little kid but I am actually just trying to conserve money [both mine and my mother's] by going to a local community college for 2 years [I got a full scholarship] and living at home)

I'll be sure and do another follow-up post after I have been able to spend alot of time practicing like this and then getting actual trigger time on the range.

After everything I think i'm about $40 into this stuff.. alot cheaper than bullite or something similar.

What do you guys think?
 
Hmmm. Interesting idea. When I was growing up, my neighbor was heavily into target shooting with his S&W model 41 .22 lr auto. At the time, S&W marketed a very similar .177 Co2 pellet gun. He used that for practice and would shoot it across his work shop for hours. I really improved his scores with the 41. My only problem with using the Airsoft you mention is the weight difference and the trigger difference. Most of my shooting is with full-sized, 5" 1911s with trigger pulls in the crisp 3.5-4 pound range. When I shoot several guns at a range session, I have to make it a point to shoot the best triggers FIRST. Otherwise, I get used to the heavier trigger pulls and end up surprising myself with the lighter trigger pull later. Not an AD, but earlier than wanted. :uhoh: See the problem with practicing with a worse trigger than you normally use? Muscle memory (or whatever you want to call it) is a powerful thing that can either help or get you into trouble.
 
There are much better and more realistic airsoft guns available. The best airsoft pistols are amazingly detailed and realistic. They are made of metal, and are the same size and weight as the real things. They use gas cartridges that will cycle the slide on each shot, so they have true semiautomatic operation. You still won't get the recoil of a real gun, but it does feel pretty close. A good airsoft 1911 shoots a lot like my Kimber .22 1911.

That kind of quality and detail doesn't come cheap, however. They sell for $250-300 and up. You can get replicas of IPSC race guns, or GI Colts, or just about anything in between.

Unfortunately, the best ones can't be imported into the U.S. without modification due to trademark laws (many are such close copies that they say "Colt Government Model" or "Wilson CQB" or somesuch on them) and laws prohibiting importation of overly realistic "toy" guns. If you try to buy one direct from an overseas distributor who doesn't paint the muzzle orange and obliterate the trademarks, it will likely get seized by U.S. customs.
 
I have a Airsoft Glock pistol that I use as a training tool for new shooters.
It's much safer to let them get used to carrying/handling an airsoft pistol than a real one, while building their confidence in the process.
 
Walther PPK/S

Anyone try the Walther PPK/S
Made by Walther
Sold by Crosman
Made of metal
Recoils about like a .22lr
Uses CO2 and BB’s
Cost $80.-$90.
Shoots better then the 4 Air Soft I have, not the
higher end Air soft, to be fair.
Fun to shoot.
 
My whole purpose was cheap practice, if I had $200 bucks to drop on a gas gun that weighed the same and had the same trigger pull I might as well just buy a bullite or whatever the other laser thing is, and dryfire with it. I disagree about shooting good triggers first, if I practice with a sloppy gritty trigger and then go to a crips 5 lbs. on my real 1911 its like running track but practicing with combat boots on. Take the boots off and get some real running shoes and you'll do way better.
 
what is the range of stated airsoft pistols???

I found myself practicing with my pellet rifle today... because i didnt feel like driving out of the city limits to my land to shoot
 
what is the range of stated airsoft pistols???
Click to expand...

I usually get about a 1 inch group at 10 yards, past about 15 yards it drops off pretty badly and when you do shoot at 15 yards you need to be outside (because the only part where you can get that kind of distance in the house is the living room and your sister might get hit [accident? maybe not.] if she walks onto a hot range) the wind can really blow those little 12 grams around.

I would imagine you can get stronger springs to increase the range or a gas gun or electric would probably have a little more umph, but you still have to deal with the wind.

a 12 gram 6mm plastic ball traveling at 250 feet per second, you do the math on that one.
 
There are Airsoft guns out there that can consistently hit targets at 75 yards, but they're the exception to the rule. A typical high quality gas airsoft pistol will consistently hit targets at 15 yards. A rifle can easily double that distance.

The range of each gun depends on several factors, including the weight of the BB it uses (they vary), the velocity it achieves and how it has been tunes. It is not uncommon for the higher quality airsoft rifles to achieve muzzle velocities of 500 fps. They generally have what are called "hop up" units installed that impart backspin on the BB, which gives them a much flatter trajectory than you might expect.
 
Just a note: I recently purchased a KWC 1911 gas blowback with the intent of practicing tactics, force on force, general practice, and as an instructional aid for novices. I'm pleasantly surpised with it. I conducted a "coke" can test with it and here are the results. Out of about 6 shots at an est 8-9 ft, 1 bb (.20g) went thru and thru :eek: . Once the can was now contorted and dented a bit, I feel the following shots may have been affected. shot 3 or 4 went thru one side and placed a dent on the far side, bulging outward. The others seemed to glance off an angle created by the dents. Not bad. Accuracy was good. At a close range of an est 10 ft or so, I actually placed a few rounds thru the same hole, only slightly enlarging it. It was easy to do quarter sized groups. 7-10 yards was excellent also. An outside shot from a side door to my backyard fence (a roughly est 18 yards or so?) had shots hitting with authority, but with accuracy suffering a bit. This model has Hop-Up, and some of the bb's hit higher than point of aim due to the backspin or Bernoulli (sp?/pardon, didn't have time to look it up :) ) effect. A fully charged mag would last for about 2 and 1/2 mag fulls (capacity of 13,14 bb's). That's pretty effecient as far as I know.
I'm enthused! It's a pretty good training tool, .............. and FUN! (There's nothing wrong with that, ya know!)
EricO
 
wow how much did that cost you? like $80? i'd like to get one if it weren't too expensive. Now comes the real test.. shoot your little sister with it when she is watching TV and ask her how badly it hurts :D
 
Wasn't a recent Steel Challenge winner a Japanese man who had never fired a "real' gun in his life, until he got to the match, aside from airsoft pistols? I'd guess they were very high end, but still...

A few years back, I went shooting with a friend who had no experience with firearms, aside from shooting a 20 gauge shottie once as a child. He had, however, shot tons and tons of rounds from a paintball pistol over the years. He was a better handgun shot than me (not saying much, but something) from his first "real" shot. Shooting skills from various types of handguns transfer much more than most people realize, at least in my experience.
 
I was just in Japan and got to drool over some of the airsoft pistols and rifles down at a little shop in Akihabara. They can get pretty pricey. I will be picking up the hobby when we get over there this new year.

If anyone's looking for some good overall info on Airsoft, M1911 forum has a new Airsoft section that explains the principles, the guns, the gases, the bbs. It can help you get started. Its a good read, I went through it last week.
 
Airsoft, applied properly, is probably a great training aid. I say probably because the closest experience I have with airsoft is Simunitions...which is very much not the same thing. Still, the general ideas apply.

You can get some very realistic airsoft guns. You can also load them to realistic magazine capacities. You can then do force-on-force training with airsoft, a la Paintball and Simunitions, for a fraction of the cost of the latter and with a lot more realism than the former.

There's still no substitution for the real deal, but, as a supplement, Airsoft has its place. I dunno how well Airsoft will help with target shooting, since the gun would have to mimic both the feel of your real gun (easy enough) and the trigger pull (more problematic) and also be inherently accurate enough to be useful (it probably is). But for force on force training it can be a valid tool.

And besides, force on force training with real guns and real bullets is no fun at all. ;)


Mike
 
MattW - Yep, catch the great deal (shhhh!....) at Ebay. With shipping, a 1100 ml bottle of "green" gas, and 1000 .20g bb's, it came to just about .... (how did you guess!) $80.00. Well worth it for just the fun factor. I'll clarify that because sometimes it seems that with the seriousness of "tactical" this and that, it's sometimes nice to just have a bit of fun. Don't mistake that for not being safe though.

Mike, good points and ones that, being aware of them, are the very reasons I decided to purchase a gas blowback version of my favored handgun. I have a lightweight, but quality Tokyo Marui "springer" 1911a1, but I wanted to pick up a semi-auto due to a fellow enthusiast who wants to engage in some force on force, ECQ training. I've taken a few classes from recognized instructors, learned informally from fellow well trained and experienced enthusiasts, competed in IDPA and such, but haven't done any simms yet. This is just to work on some close in tactics for myself, confirm the Tueller drill and variations to others, and raise the adrenalin notch.

Once I get my safety mask, I'll be ready to get "lit up." Not something I'll take a liking to I'll bet, but I'm gonna make sure I continue to fight through it so as not to program in my mind that the fight is over once I receive a hit. It'll be fun thinking up scenarios for training. Any tips?

EricO
 
wear a loose fitting long sleeve shirt and some jeans. the BBs will bounce off if they hit a peice of clothing not stretched tight to your body and it will hurt about 40% less if they hit jeans or a shirt before they make an impact on your person.

put away all the glass and expensive stuff in your house and have someone simulate a home invasion, that is pretty fun. don't worry about TVs or windows, if you use .12 grams and something that shoots under 300 fps.
 
My experience is with Simunitions, so this might not be airsoft-specific, but:

1. Safety! Make sure that all weapons used are Airsofts! Might seem like a stupid point to make, but when we're talking exact replicas of weapons here...it only takes one oops to ruin everyone's day. I would advise a visual and physical inspection of everyone's weapon by a designated Safety Officer.

2. Safety! Wear protective gear.

3. Safety! Have a designated area, away from casual observers/passers-by. Keep blissninnies and the unware out. Do it on private property.

4. Safety! Everyone should have a method of calling an instant halt to the action.

5. Safety! Have ground rules for hands-on contact and other concerns, and make sure everyone knows them. Don't play with people who are going to disregard any rules.

6. Think out a few scenarios, in addition to the "last man standing" game that you're certain to play. Try some IDPA scenarios substituting real targets for cardboard. Also do shoot/don't shoot scenarios. They're disconcertingly enlightening.

7. Don't get hit. :D

Mike
 
Also, if you're playing open-ended scenarios, do something to discourage people using concealment as cover. Have a ref that can declare people dead if they just hide behind a bush while you pepper them with shots.

Also, have everyone load magazines to real-world capacities, and turn off full-auto. Even if the toy has a realisitic cyclic rate (I don't think many do), it sure as heck does not have realistic recoil. Besides, this should be teaching you to aim, not to hose down an area with bbs.

Mike
 
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Wasn't a recent Steel Challenge winner a Japanese man who had never fired a "real' gun in his life, until he got to the match, aside from airsoft pistols?
Click to expand...
Tatsuya Sakai. Airsoft is, basically, dryfire practice. the key to improvement is dryfire. Mr. Sakai put the truth to that in no uncertain terms.

He trains airsoft in Japan, comes to the states a couple weeks before the match and tunes into a gun that's kept here for him. Shows up on match day and just burns the whole thing down.

http://www.steelchallenge.com/steelchallenge/2004/results.htm
 
well, i for one love airsoft, you could call me obsessed. as such, i take issue with a few things that were said: a good gas semiauto pistol costing $250-300? no, maybe the Western Arms Perfect Version series, but a good, realistic gas airsoft pistol should be about $100-150, if you dont want to go all-out. using .12 gram BB's=no-no. simply put, if it fires that particular BB, its crap. get something that uses .20's or .25's.
 
Here is a question regarding airsoft. I noticed a lot of lights and tactical lasers for sale on ebay from airsoft suppliers. Some even say they are designed to work on firearms. Most appear to be copies of surefire and other tactical products. Are these products junk. I purchased a laser for 89 bucks that looks just like a $544 surefire model. I thought I would try it on a 22 for fun? Whats the story with this stuff.
Pat
 
Air Soft 1911 w/ambi

Does anyone know of an airsoft 1911 copy that is lefty friendly (ambi safety). I am currently deployed so internet service is sloooooow and I have not had much success.

Thanks for the help.
 
I just got a Caspian 1911 gas blowback built by KWC. I paid $60 plus shipping from airsplat.com. It has an ambi safety. If you remove the orange paint on the front of the slide, it easily passes for a real 1911 from 10 feet away. It runs on green gas (propane) and holds 13 bb's in the mag.

Unfortunately, the quality isn't great. It works, but you can see where they cut corners to be able to make a gas blowback 1911 that can be sold for $60. The thumb safety is difficult to engage and disengage -- it doesn't snick on and off easily like it should. The grip safety is purely ornamental.

Still, it's great fun for the price.
 
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