Bandolier or ammo belt for Garand?

Probably the belt. The bandoleers seem like they would be uncomfortable as hell, and for me it's hard to get the clips out of them.

How to carry the en bloc clip


Well lets see: first of all....I am new to the forum...thanks for being here. Second....I just picked up a Garand....and third....I just went to a show and picked up 50 en blocks with some armour piercing and tracer.....how they did it in the Big One???Dunno....but I will be in the bush next week figuring out how to carry a front line war load and distribution on my belt order or mini pack......beans and bullets seem to suggest a small pack on the back which can be dropped in a defensive fire zone and full of a front line load out of 12 en blocks with 8 rounds or 72....I would think that a quick action would suggest a lightened bandolier with replacement charge of 5 en blocks.....just a thought....now to give it a try.....I go into the bush regularly each month and do ranges once a month cycling 200 rds through each weapon.......and I have a few.....fn and M1 along with ak and ar and s&w 9 and glock 9 and a 306 sporter converted to sniper......Keeps me busy......thoughts gentlemen please

I'd vote ammo belt. Most of the guys carrying M1's didn't also have a pistol, just a bayonet and canteen(s). They didn't have to be convenient - just there when you decided to use them. Ammo you want real convenient to get at.
In RVN we carried the magazines in OD cloth belts that were either tied around the waist or carried like bandolieers. Also seemed faster to get another mag out from the around the waist carry especially when you were laying down.

Standard issue was the ammo belt which integrated with the pack and suspenders. The pack could be dropped by unbuckling (it used to unbuckle itself as you marched, pulling away from your back farther and farther.) Eyelets on the ammo belt held canteen, first aid pouch and bayonet. I've hiked across half of Fort Polk like that.

Before the short 10" bayonet was adopted, the 16" blade was carried on the pack, left side, handle up -- before my time, of course.

As an adviser to the ARVN, I carried a regular M14 Magazine pouches, with en bloc clips in them, and a couple of bandoliers in my pack.

I have seen ARVN troops go into action with en block clips everywhere -- in the camouflage bands of their helmits, stuck on their suspenders, on the rifle slings -- you name it.

The standard load on the belt was 80 rnds. One of the pockets on the web gear carried a bottle of cleaning solvent. The cloth bandeleros(sp) were used to carry extra ammo. They could be carried around the neck and used as needed. Many of the vets I have spoke to said that 2-3 were the average. If they knew that they were going into a major attack they would carry as many as six!!

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

Many of the vets I have spoke to said that 2-3 were the average. If they knew that they were going into a major attack they would carry as many as six!!

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The bandoliers held 48 rounds (six en bloc clips.) Six bandoliers with a full ammo belt would be 368 rounds. If I told you how much ammo I've seen a 120 lb ARVN binh shi carry, you wouldn't believe me.

Ok, so How would YOU carry a pistol with an ammo belt?

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The way it was designed to be carried, with the U-wire through the eyelets on the bottom edge of the ammo belt, of course.

I think i'd probably use a couple of these.











they hold 8 clips. molle compatable. i'd imagine you could put quite a few on an IBA or FLC.

If you look at photos shot during WW2 you see a real mix.

What little my father spoke of the war I do remember him saying he carried as much as possible because they never knew how fast they would be resupplied. What he carried it in would just be a guess.

I just looked at a bunch of photos from the Bulge and you can clearly see a majority of the soldiers with belts and bandoliers.

There are some good websites with WW2 photos and that's the best way to research what they were doing and using unless you have access to a vet.

Not having much else, I have a pile of clips in an old shoulder bag. I doubt it would be good for combat though. I'll have to think about that some more.

When I took my M1 to Front Sight, I used a WWII ammo belt. I've tried both that and bandoliers, and the belt is a lot faster to use. The bandoliers wobble around all over the place, and getting the clips free of them can be tricky when you only have one hand to use and you're in a hurry. The belt is much friendlier. 'Course, you can only wear one ammo belt, so I'd use bandoliers for any ammo beyond the first 80 rounds.

As Vern Humphrey said, the ammo belts have grommets in them just like the normal pistol belts. You can't use ALICE clips (the ammo belt is too wide), but you can attach anything with the WWII-style wire hooks.

All that being said, the WWII gear isn't all that comfortable, and the ammo belt precludes wearing anything on your pants belt. Within the next couple weeks, I'm going too be ordering a load-bearing vest to use with my M1.

BTW, I've tried hanging an extra clip on my sling, and it's a so-so way to store a few more rounds. it's pretty quick to get to up there, but every so often when I yank a clip off the sling it causes one of the cartridges to scoot forward, which prevents the clip from loading.

All that being said, the WWII gear isn't all that comfortable

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The WWII gear is absolutely miserable!

I went through Basic and Advanced Infantry Training at Fort Polk, LA, and Officer Candidate School at Fort Sill, OK with that stuff.

First of all, you hook suspenders to the ammo belt, then buckle the pack to the suspenders. But you can't get it tight enough. With every step, the straps slip a little, and the pack eventually comes unbuckled if you don't keep pulling on the straps.

The horseshoe roll (blanket, poles, rope and stakes rolled up into shelter half) sticks out beyond your shoulders, so you have to force the rifle in there somewhere, and it keeps slipping off your shoulder.

And the elbows in charge in those days believed that too much water caused heat cramps and heat exhaustion.

So you marched, pulling on the pack straps, re-seating the rifle, and following a pitcher of cold beer that floated about a foot in front of your face, mile after mile after mile.

Like mentioned above, the bandoleers were just to resupply, or when carrying an extra ammo load going into combat.

They would use the belt first as it was easier to get at, then during lulls, reload the belt from the bandoleers, and stick a few clips of ammo to the sling for very fast aquisition. Same for the front opening of the shirt/jac if expecting something hot and heavy coming up.
You'd be surprised at how well the clips will hold on that way.

stick a few clips of ammo to the sling for very fast aquisition. Same for the front opening of the shirt/jac if expecting something hot and heavy coming up.
You'd be surprised at how well the clips will hold on that way.

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On the approach march for Operation Huntsville in '66, the 4/48 ARVN had clips all over them. Some had dumped a whole can (480 rounds) in their packs, and then had clips all around the helmit on the camouflage band, on the shirt opening, the pack straps, the sling -- you name it.

In combat I don't believe that there is such a thing as "too much ammo". Look at pictures from WW2 in the Ardenns (sp) and in the Pacific Campaign. Grenades were very popular also ( and still are with the Marines!)

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

Most combat vets and combat accounts I have seen show that soldiers commonly carry much more than the usual standard combat load. I belive army now considers 6x30rd mags plus one in gun is standard load. My dad says he easily carried twice that in Viet Nam. And that was with only one 30rd mag and the rest 20's.

I read an account where a Brit in the Falklands went through at least 300rds or so and still had to scrounge FAL mags from the bodies of dead Argentines while in combat.


Spare ammo is very important in combat operations obviously. I think I'd rather carry extra ammo than extra food or a pistol in many circumstances.

Yeah, seriously. Every time I see guys ready for "Combat" they are covered in ammunition, anywhere an enbloc can possibly be stuck, it's there (anyone who wants to make the joke we all see coming from miles away, feel free), because running out of ammunition in any kind of even vaguely suspicious looking situation is an astonishingly bad thing.

"Think about how much ammunition you think you'll need, then quadruple it. You'll need twice this amount." ~Not anyone ever, AFAIK

~Slam_Fire

I find it much easier to use the bandoleers to reload my belt.

Of all the old web gear I've sent a few days running around in, I find the old British P08 gear the most comfortable. Nice wide 2" shoulder straps to spread the load. 150 rounds ready on the rig plus another 100 in 2 bandoleers. Stable enough that you can road march with the belt undone to circulate air. Dump the small pack and it's great.

The WWII GI gear is fine if you're just wearing the M36 suspenders, but the pack was a PITA.

Why would anyone carry ammunition in the cigarette pack belt? It was also used for C-rat candy bars. The army was good enough to issue ammo in those nice bandoliers, so you just slung a couple around your neck and were good to go. If you thought you might need a clip in a hurry, you could stick a couple in the helmet strap which no one ever used to actually strap down the helmet. The reason being that if a shell or grenade burst nearby, the pressure wave would try to lift the helmet and maybe take your head along with it. Yea, I know that hook was supposed to let go before your neck did, but nobody ever trusted that silly thing.

Jim

Most combat vets and combat accounts I have seen show that soldiers commonly carry much more than the usual standard combat load. I belive army now considers 6x30rd mags plus one in gun is standard load. My dad says he easily carried twice that in Viet Nam. And that was with only one 30rd mag and the rest 20's.

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The modern American infantryman's load is much heavier than in WWI -- and the planners don't seem to understand that troops will always carry extra ammo and grenades, so the load goes through the roof.

True, I read some troops went to the Falklands carrying up to 140lbs of gear! Very unhealthy, I think you are not suppose to carry more than like 40-50% of your weight . Combat or not having what you need in combat is quite unhealthy too I suppose.

As they weren't sure what was to be encountered a lot of stuff like AA gear and gas masks and such ended up being carried along.

True, I read some troops went to the Falklands carrying up to 140lbs of gear! Very unhealthy, I think you are not suppose to carry more than like 40-50% of your weight . Combat or not having what you need in combat is quite unhealthy too I suppose.

As they weren't sure what was to be encountered a lot of stuff like AA gear and gas masks and such ended up being carried along.

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At one time the Army manual on Clothing and Equipment published a list, with weights, of what the generic soldier carried -- it added up to 95 lbs. The list disappeared from the next edition for obvious reasons!

That, of course, doesn't change the fact that the soldier is overburdened. This "generic" soldier had 7 magazines, two grenades, one canteen of water and one C-ration meal. He did NOT have a claymore mine, smoke grenades for signaling, a couple of 60mm mortar rounds, a belt of 7.62mm ammo for the machineguns, a radio, a night vision device, etc., etc., etc -- all of which would be carried in combat.

...And everytime technology improves to make the soldier's equipment smaller and lighter, they simply give him more stuff to carry.

Most of it is useful and aids combat effectiveness, I'm sure (especially things like night vision), but we're making negative progress on reducing the burden of the poor infantryman.