thoughts on joining the ARMY

KA 50. When are you going to answer my question ??? If you sense a flame coming on then I suggest you stop flaming those of us that are/have served in the service of this great country.

Lebben-B said:

Jef,

Dude, don't waste words on this joker and his ilk. It's kind of like wrasslin' with a pig - everybody gets dirty, and only the pig enjoys it.

Mike

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lol

Lebben-B said:

If I'm a tool, can I be one of the long, sharp, pointy ones you shouldn't run with?

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Now that's what I'm talking about.

I spent Christmas last year in Iraq and don't regret it one bit. Yeah, it sucked to be away. But until you've been over there and seen the difference we're making and been out to a school that we're providing security for, or given some toys to a kid who's never had one because he was born into the wrong political party--I don't want to hear what's right or wrong. I'm a commo guy and wasn't out toe to toe everyday but I saw my share.

The intial poster merely asked about going into the military. There is no need to trash the men and woman serving overseas on Christmas as pawns and tools. You've got a lot of damn gall.

1LT Mark McAfee
C/50 SIG BN (CORPS)(FORCED ENTRY)(AIRBORNE)

I am in the Army now and I am a SSG in 3rd Batt-75th Ranger Reg. serving in Afghanistan. I have been in the special operations now since 1989, and have enjoyed it. I have been a sniper since 1991. But the down side is that I am trained to either be a cop or a mob hit man when I get out. There are lots of jobs that can train you for an outside career, and since you are working construction, maybe you should look into the Engineers. Just remember, the recruiters job is to get you to sign up.They will tell you what you want to hear to have you sign the bottom line. What ever school you want, or job you want, make sure it is in your contract. You WILL NOT be able to change your contract once you sign. The job will be better , the better you make on your ASFAB test. You will need atleast a 110 to go Special Forces. ( My best friend is giving me this info, he was a recruiter for 4 years and just last year reenlisted for the Rangers). Any info you need just ask, We will be away from the computers for several days following this post, but I will answer any questions you have. Also from what I see, everyone that has answered my questions on this fourm or offered info , has done so with great knowledge and thought. Plus several are obviously ex miitary. Good luck, Brian

Lebben-B said:

Jef,

Dude, don't waste words on this joker and his ilk. It's kind of like wrasslin' with a pig - everybody gets dirty, and only the pig enjoys it.

Mike

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I like getting dirty, too

Anyways, Merry Christmas to all, especially those stuck away from family overseas. Most of us understand and appreciate what you are doing.

1LT McAfee,

I'll be back at Planet Bragg by 29 DEC. We'll hafta get together and do a mini-High Road shoot oover at McKellars.

V/R

SFC Heggen

You WILL NOT be able to change your contract once you sign.

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Untrue. A prospect can change his/her contract prior to going to MEPS for the final time. Recruiters don't necessarily trumpet this fact, but if the prospect is going to walk away completely from the service, then the contract will be changed to reflect the wishes of the prospect, be it change in MOS or change in duty station.

BTW, armyranger, what was your class date?

You may not care for the President and that is your choice, but any young man or woman that is willing to step up to the plate should not be mocked for making that NOBLE decision.

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I didn't think I said anything that was mocking to anyone. I noted the very honorable institutions that our military branches are and have been. You would most certainly be aligning yourself with a very noble tradition and heritage and there's no doubt a lot of good that would come of it.

Nope, I didn't serve in the military. I have always been really proud of the men and women who do though...and maybe a little envious.

I am relaying a bunch of the thoughts and conclusions I came to on my own, after meeting with several recruiters earlier this year and discussing a comittment to the National Guard.

I weighed it all out and looked at my government and decided that personally, I couldn't endorse the foreign policy path that they're on to the point of making myself an implement of it.

If you can, great. Just consider what you believe about America's role in the world before signing the papers. It would suck to become an instrument of something you don't agree with/believe in because you waited too long to examine that aspect of it.

neon,

a thoughtful post. Point taken.

We must all remember that the service isn't for everyone. At least not as a career. But for your average young buck ( or doe, I guess, these days) a few years in the service will not be wasted time.

I just returned from a Christmas pary where I talked about this thread with a former Navy SAR swimmer-- you know, the guys who pull the astronauts out of the capsules, for those old enough to remember-- and asked him what he would reccommend. His answer was a firm NO. He didn't elabotate. He and I were the only ones in the room with prior service. Shows to go ya. But I don't regret a minute of my Navy time. I was already an MD when I put on the uniform, but I still had some growing up to do, and Uncle Sam gave it to me. You could say I *served* from 1981 to 1994.....but I would say I got the better end of the bargain.

On this Christmas eve, God bless all of our service men and women. They deserve more than we could ever pay them.

Join up. If you go active it is only 2-4 years depending upon how you do it. I know at 21 or so that sounds like a long time. Trust me it isn't. You may hate it, or you may love it and find it is your path in life. Even if you hate it, you won't be stuck there long, you'll get invaluable life experience, you'll have some stories later in life that make you a more interesting person, and in all likelihood you'll end up looking back on it with great pride and often look back nostalgically. And that is the worst case scenario (assuming you come out alive and with all 4 limbs- we are at war).

That said, remember we are at war. If you are sent there, and come back (physically) whole, you will have major emotional scars. Few come out of combat suffering from full-scale PTSD, but no one comes out unchanged and unscathed. DO NOT join only for what the military can do for you. Sure, they'll repay a good portion of your student loans if you go enlisted (up to $60K), they'll give you college money, they'll give you a skill, good enlistment bonuses, etc. However, even in peacetime, and especially today in wartime, you must realize that part of the job is that you fight our wars and you may have to kill and you may even be killed or wounded. If you aren't going with serving your country in mind, don't do it!

If it is something you want to do, you may want to consider finishing school (as many have pointed out). If you have your degree and choose to go enlisted, I believe the Army is putting people in with degrees as E4 these days. They'll repay your student loans (up to $60K for contracts of 3 years or more). If you like it you may even choose to stay enlisted (many NCOs have degrees), and if you like the Army you can still go OCS later (though you may have to wait for your enlistment to be served out). There is ROTC now as another option and skipping enlistment altogether.

If you can't wait, the Reserves/Nat'l Guard along with ROTC is a good way to go. As already mentioned in the thread, there is the Simultaneous Membership Program where you will be a member of the unit while you do ROTC. You can get a taste of enlisted life while in ROTC and once you are an officer you'll be a better officer. Just be careful of the Reserves/Guard only option without the ROTC program- it can be hard (nearly impossible) sometimes to go from the Reserves to Active service. While doing the Reserves in school may prolong school because you may be activated, it will still be easier to finish than going Active where you won't be in school (there is always the danger when you take time off school that you may not go back).

Here is something to think about

I don't do what I do because I believe in whatever President or foreign policy we happen to have at the time.

I do what I do because I believe in my mission and I believe in the people in my Coast Guard.

Presidents change, but the mission and the people around you dont.

You know what US ARMY stands for backwards, right?

Yes My Retarded A** Signed Up

Just kidding.

I guess my two cents would be that the military isn't for everybody but I don't have any regrets about the training and experience I got while I was in. As with anything, there are bad things and good things. It's something only you can decide.

Lebben-B, Class date for what, RIP ,Pre-Ranger, Ranger School or Sniper School ? After basis/ait (11c) and jump school I went to Ft. Polk, La and was in 105th Military Intel as a L.R.S.D. team member. After Panama in "89" for Operation "Just Cause" I got my Sniper School class date. I reenlisted in 91 and went to Ft Benning and joined 3rd batt-75th Ranger Regt. I went to the Gulf war with a joint military taskforce team as a sniper. I went with guys from 6th Seal, Force Recon, few Para Rescue guys and Rangers. We were all pre qualified on the new at the time, Barrett .50 cal. After I got back from there I went to the winter course ranger school 2-92.

Armyranger

Hey, just curious, who was the 3/75 RGR Command Sergeant Major at that time? Was it still CSM Neshiem? I thought I remember seeing him down there at Benning at that time. Do you remember who the Regiment Sgt Major was?

Just curious what sniper course you attended. Thanks and Merry Christmas!

I am in the Army now and I am a SSG in 3rd Batt-75th Ranger Reg. serving in Afghanistan.

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Deployed over Christmas eh? How far into your deployment are you?

For those of you who enjoy political discussion, we have an ENTIRE FORUM for it. Please be considerate to the thread author and other readers who may search for this information and keep the thread on topic. If you want to give advice, say your piece and move on. If you want to debate politics, take it to the proper thread and forum.

After basis/ait (11c) and jump school I went to Ft. Polk, La and was in 105th Military Intel as a L.R.S.D. team member.

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I was LRS for 3 years. There were no 11C's because LRS units weren't/aren't authorized them in their TO&E.

ASFAB test. You will need atleast a 110 to go Special Forces.

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What does ASFAB stand for? And 110 what?

I went to the Gulf war with a joint military taskforce team as a sniper. I went with guys from 6th Seal, Force Recon, few Para Rescue guys and Rangers. We were all pre qualified on the new at the time, Barrett .50 cal.

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What was the name and/or number of this "joint military taskforce?" Where did it operate out of?

ka50 said:

Liberating a country from an opressor is a noble cause. However, it is THEIR country, help the inner resistance forces in the country with equipment to overthrow their own tyrant.

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Yes. Of course. It worked so well in Korea and Vietnam, didn't it?

If you want things to change you must make them change, and the only way to do that is with overwhelming strength.

Hey gents,

What does the military do with people who have advanced degrees (masters/doctorates)? I'll probably be done with my Ph.D by 27 or 28, have no plans to join the military, but I am curious.

Army and PHds

I think it depends on what your Phd. is in. If it is in a hard science or engineering you could possibly recieve a direct commission, much the same way Doctors and Lawyers do. They go in as Captains or Majors and just attend a couple of weeks of military orientation training. My unlce was an Eye Doctor (Optomologist) with about 10 years experience and he decided to join the Army Reserve. He was able to go straight in as a Major due to his experience. He just retired this year as a full bird colonel in the Reserves.

I do know the Navy and Air Force are always looking for PHds in the Hard Sceince areas. They have a lot of scientific fields and research and development fields for their officers.

If you Phd. is in say French Comparative Literature or Medivial History then you probably would have to apply for OCS like all other College grads to get officer training and then become a 2nd LT.

I have a friend who is finishing up his PHd in Bio Medicine and he is also a native Farsi speaker (born US citizen though). He is being recruited big time by the Armed Forces (again he is being offered to come in as a Major) and several government organizations.

Yeah I'm in communication studies, which is kind of a blend of humanities and social science, and is tremendously broad. The focus of my master's degree is on teaching methods and their relationship to rhetoric/persuasion.

Did 2 years in the Army Infantry. Outfit was 1st Cavalry Division.
It is true. The regular Infantry has it's 'squared away' guys and your occassional 'wastes of air'. Pray that you get into a good unit. That's all you can do.
My unit was pretty good actually; but, I was a little disappointed with the lax nature of it sometimes. I eventually got disillusioned with the whole Army thing and ETSd to move onto the next chapter of my life.
Overall, a very good experience. Learned A LOT about myself, people, and feel I have a better insight into people and things that non-military folks don't have.
Also, when I feel overwhelmed sometimes, I think back, "Hey, I was an Infantryman, I've dealt with worse sh*t than this.", and everything takes their perspective. Essentially, I've matured and can deal with things, whatever they may be.
If you want HARDCORE get to the Rangers, they are the all-star football team.
GET IT IN WRITING IN YOUR CONTRACT. And be in VERY good physical condition when you start training or you will washout of Ranger School.
In the Infantry, it's about how much punishment you can take while dishing out what you've been trained to do. I emphasize the taking of punishment though.

Man, I wonder if you're still reading this thread? If you are, there's some good advice here. And of course some other points of view. This is what makes our country so great. You have a choice, and so do they. We can all have the freedom of voice. And not be afraid to express our opinions. That said, as a training ground, our military can be a great means to our goals. Supporting our country, the theme of democracy world wide along the way is a huge bonus. I'm only 43 years young. I served two tours with the USN from 84-91. I got to go to the gulf in 87' and 89'. No real action as one would consider a conventional war on the ground or "sand" as it is. Sure, some scares, fires aboard ship, lost aircraft from missions far away, and right next to ship. Some minimal attack attempts made at us. As an Aviation Electrician I was helping the cause from the backfield, proud of my work. Proud to keep the shipmates that I supervised safe as I possibly could. It's not all about carrying a weapon and searching out insurgents. But if you think the Special Forces is for you, get with some that are currently serving. Let them tell you first hand what it's like. What it takes.

Since you're already in college, all I can stress is to finish at least your two year transfer degree in general studies if you haven't decided upon what you would further your education in. Once you've joined the military, it's difficult if not almost impossible to finish. (A lot easier if you're stationed stateside, but no guarantee.) If you're thinking about engineering then I hope you're a mathematics natural. You'll need it. Go to the Unemployment Office and ask to research the top ten under-staffed careers in a pay bracket that you'd be comfortable in. There might be a carreer center at your college that can help with this information too. (Set your goals much higher than your parent’s goals. Doing better than them will make them more proud of you than you could ever imagine.)

Then look to any of the military disciplines that will help you get to that career. One that truly interests you. One that has options that you'd be happy with if your first choices don't work out. Make sure your ASVAB is your best possible effort. (There are fake tests out there that can help prepare you for this.) Like someone else said, GET THE SCHOOL GARRANTEED. I doubt that any college student would limit themself to being an infantryman. Now that's not a slam on them. Not at all. But the ASVAB testing scores places them right there with boatswain’s mates. Schools are short. The rest you can learn on the job. Seabees. Information Technology, Electronics, Nuclear and Medical Technology, Seals, ... OK, and Special Forces specific disciplines. Don't count out the Air Force either. There are equivelent jobs and training available.

You work with a couple of ex-Marines. Is this is where you'd like to end up.. Framing houses for a living? For the next 20+ years? Come on, you're going to be a college graduate some day. Is this were you see yourself? You've got a year of school. Why go half way and not finish? Do you have opportunity to go to a 4 year University? Do you realize the difference in pay, and living conditions for Military Officers as compared to NCO's? That four-year degree in engineering or mathematics or computer science will set the foundation for what could be a great military career. -I don't knock the enlisted man. Don't get me wrong. I was one. Real workers are needed. But good leaders are also.

You need to widen your thoughts. Don't join the Army just to be a Special Forces Candidate. When you come back to the world, you'll still need to put food on the table, have a mortgage to pay, kids to put through college, a wife to provide for. If you're willing to put your life on the line for your country and it's beliefs, then make sure you've taken advantage of all the opportunities to learn that which will help you in later life.

The Navy set me on my way to a couple of good careers. There are things out of our control that change things. At 30yrs old, I went back to school.

The biggest regret in my life- Not continuing on to college after highschool.

Spoken from experience,
-Steve

cdharmon said:

why so many differences in opinions? is it what you make it or what?

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I'd think your parents would have better insight into how the Army might affect you than (mostly anonymous) posters on an internet forum.

When you have a 19 year old son, who would you prefer he ask, his father and mother, or strangers on an internet discussion forum?

Michael Courtney