Calling all mountain men: Best Sidearm for remote hiking or backpacking

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Bear it

Another amusing anecdote that I heard long, long ago in a galaxy...somewhere.

A city slicker-type reporter interviewed a high country guide, and during the course of the conversation, the subject of bears came up. The reporter asked the guide how to tell the difference between a big Black bear that isn't exactly black (Their color varies) and a dark-coated Grizzly.

The guide answered:

Well...If ya get into a scrap with a bear, and ya wing'im...and your gun jams...and ya hafta climb a tree to get away from'im...and he climbs the tree after ya...it's a Black. If he grabs the tree and shakes ya out of it, it's a Grizzer.

:D

Vern! Take it from a fool that's whizzed on one of those fences...it ain't somethin' that you'll do twice.:rolleyes: :D
 
For hypothetical purpose lets say its a 4 day hike in 60 miles from your car. Two week trip total. And you went solo.

I do this a lot!

You live in 'Bama, so the biggest things you'll run into are much like my biggest things to fear: Bad Guys, mountain lions and black bear.

The only times I've run into mountain lions and bears have been unnecessary to draw, or I have been armed (which made me get guns in the first place). First bear I saw must've been 600+ pounds, it was in the Olympic mountains in Washington. Huge. Seen quite a few since, none as big. Seen 3 so far in AZ, none of which were over 300lbs. I have no qualms of a .44magnum doing it's part as long as I do my part. In AZ I will even use 10mm or .357.

Only had 2 run ins with mountain lions. Scary bastards. Both unarmed. I feel helpless around them. They are fast, they scream a lot to unnerve you, and they WILL get on you when you fire the first shot. They will live thru a super-blastomatic-500Nitro or a 9mm, and still get to you. I like being near a campfire when they come out at night. But I keep whatever gun I have handy. Either .44, 10mm or .357.

Never ran into BG's / Drug Runners / Illegal Aliens while hiking. I'd probably prefer my .44. It'll penetrate more cover than the other 2 guns, and has a longer barrel and longer range if I need to fire.

In your case, I would suggest the .357sig, but find some heavy loads for it. None of that 125gr nonsense. They don't have the sectional density to kill big critters. You want at least 150+gr, preferably 170+ if anyone can seat one that deeply in a .357sig case. Not sure if it's possible. And no JHPs. Get JSP's or hard-cast lead.

Or buy yourself a .44. Get intermediate strength loads with JSP's or hardcast lead around 750ft/lbs of energy, 240gr bullets. Learn to shoot really well in DA only within 20 feet. Learn to shoot really well SA mode out to 75-100 yards.
 
I never packed a handgun on my hip while hiking, but I found a short barrel 12 ga. was way more comfortable to carry in the hand than to sling. I guess I was packing 50 or 60 lbs on my back. This was in the ANWR where it's ok to have a visible weapon. I don't imagine it would go over to good in Olympic National Park.
Never saw a griz that did anything but run away full speed on scent contact, but have heard the tales and have full respect!
 
Handgun Vs Automatic

I think anything semi-automatic is an excellent idea. That way when the bear shoves your SSK with the filed down front sight up your a$$ and then takes away your SIG P229 backup he wont be able to engage the safety.
 
MCgunner said:
How many deaths by black bear in the last decade? Guess I could google that if I weren't so lazy. :rolleyes: It's gotta be pretty rare I'd think. Grizzlies are meaner and I don't know that even THEY kill people that often.

If you venture north to the tundra in Polar Bear country, now you're talkin' dangerous animals. There aren't too many people up there, though.
I frequently come up on black bear in the woods. Hell, I had one on my deck one time when I came home from work. They have always run away except once. I topped a hill, and there he/she was about 20 yards. I stopped, and stood still for what seemed forever. No movement. I slowly backed up a few feet. It came forward a few feet. I stayed still again. Nothing, so I tried backing up again. Same result. I know this happened over only a couple of minutes, but it seemed forever. While standing still, the bear, very slowly started forward again. I fired a round off, not at it, but near it. The sound of the .41mag did the trick. It ran away about 20 yards, stopped, and looked at me. It then slowly walked off, and disappeared in the woods. Like I said, I don't carry the .41 mag anymore. Retired it for a G20. I wouldn't be in the woods without a firearm. Even if some of you BELIEVE blacks aren't a problem.
 
don't be a wimp!

go and buy yourself a Desert Eagle in .50ae if it can't lower your sperm count on the first shot your just not trying hard enough.:what:



-and then a mushroom cloud appeared over the plains
 
thrilldo higgins said:
go and buy yourself a Desert Eagle in .50ae if it can't lower your sperm count on the first shot your just not trying hard enough.:what:



-and then a mushroom cloud appeared over the plains
If you are talking to me, it's to late. Already own one. I just don't care to lug it around.
 
Dualing Banjo's

MCgunner said:
Heck, Bert Renolds went out with just a bow and that's all HE needed!

Why am I humming "Dualing Banjos" all of a sudden?


Yeah . . . and look what happened to his friend Ned Beatty!!!
 
Nail Shooter said:
Glock G20 with hot 180 or 200 grain FMJ's. Maybe a spare 15rd mag or two.

NS

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We promise you will be treated to beautiful scenery filled with fabulous hiking trails and a once in a lifetime opportunity to test your shooting skills. We have arranged with the local Grizzly bear population to come out of hibernation just a little early this year so that you can get a private viewing. Watch them search for food during a period when food supplies are at their shortest and they are really hungry having just come out of hibernation. Dont miss this chance to forget your worries, get away from work and a chance to try out the lastest high capacity magazine!

Brought to you by the Hungry Grizzly Foundation.
 
thales said:
*


The reasons for carrying a handgun out in the bush are quite similar to the reasons for carrying one in Anytown, USA. You may go for years and years without needing one, but on those rare occasions when you do need one, you need a good one and you need it right now.

As has been mentioned before on this thread, if you are on a two week backpacking trip your pack is going to be too doggone heavy and you will resent each and every ounce. That backpacker par excellence, Colin Fletcher, author of The Complete Walker and The Man Who Walked Through Time, used to clip the strings and paper tags off his tea bags. After you carry a 90 pound pack and try to make more than 10 miles a day in rough country, you will too. You will also worry long and hard over the amount of your ammunition; is twelve rounds enough or will six do fine? Either that or you'll give up on the whole deal.

In other words, your handgun and ammunition need to be absolutely as light as possible. Let's not even discuss rifles, shotguns, and ultramagnum pistols with 18 inch barrels. You're not hunting, you're not planning on shooting anything at all; you're merely budgeting a small portion of your heavy load for self defense or survival on the small chance that you will need it. Two pounds of weight is pushing the upper limit of tolerance, and you will curse every ounce of it while you drag your weary, thirsty body and excessive burden up that long steep hill on blister-ridden feet.

Your gun needs not only to be light, but also powerful; powerful enough to save your tail from a threat that is greater than you had planned for. Human bad actors are relatively easy to stop. Large animals, whether carnivore or herbivore are a bit more of a challenge. They may be larger, a lot larger, than you are. They are certainly faster and stronger, and have larger teeth, claws, antlers, hooves, etc., than you do. Basically, it is impossible to have a gun that is too powerful.

I happen to think that a .357 Magnum is a decent round (by no means too powerful) to handle a typical two-legged predator, or an ill-tempered, 80 pound pit bull. For something like a 200 pound mountain lion or a 300 pound bear, I would prefer something more powerful. For something like an irate mama moose or a surly brown bear, I would like something a lot more powerful. I think the .41 Magnum is a minimum for black bear or lion country, and the .44 Magnum is a minimum for brown bear or moose country. For auto pistols, the .45 ACP, .357 SIG and 10mm are significantly substandard for lion and black bear. They are utterly inadequate for brown bear and moose. It's kind of like you wouldn't want to face a bunch of bikers with a .25 Auto, would you?

That late, great master of handgunnery and father of the .44 Magnum, Elmer Keith, once said something to the effect that " If you carry a pistol in the wilds, and use it every day for thirty years, you can hardly help learning something about it", and that is precisely what he did. He was intimately acquainted with the concept of the "hot load." Elmer's favorite carry gun, in town and country, was a Smith & Wesson Model 29 .44 Magnum with a four inch barrel and custom ivory grips. I'm not as wiry or recoil-tolerant as Elmer. I am partial to the S&W 329 with the polymer grips from the S&W 500 and it is so light as to reside near the limits of shootability. When I carry it, I usually consider myself to be adequately, but not excessively, well armed. It is a very good compromise between power and lightness: if it were any lighter, you would have to use a weaker cartridge to make it shootable. If it were any more powerful, it would have to be heavier to be shootable. It is light enough to carry in the bush day after day, and powerful enough that you will not be underarmed except in the most dire of circumstances.

To carry this beast, and it is a beast, I would recommend a shoulder or chest holster that is independent of your backpack, and which will stay with you if you have to dump your pack in a big hurry. The holster itself should be quite light and comfortable enough to wear in bed. I'm not saying that you need to wear it to bed, just that you should not be inhibited from doing so if you deem it advisable. The holster should keep the revolver on the weak hand side, slightly high and toward the front; and accessible to your shooting hand whether you are tangled up in brush, curled up in a defensive posture, or taking a dump with your pants around your ankles.

Although the .44 Magnum is on the powerful side for a pistol cartridge, it is still only a handgun cartridge. You can't afford to mess around with large, dangerous animals. Even if you kill the beast, if he manages to wound you you are dead meat without prompt medical care. That is not usually available out in the bush. A shot right through the heart is not good enough. You need to hit Mr. A. Nasty Bear or Mr. Bodacious Lion right between the eyes. Actually, for a charging bear, the Alaska wildlife authorities recommend that you aim for the nose for a frontal brain shot. As a bear gets closer to you it becomes technically easier to get a good brain shot. Unfortunately, it also gets easier to become completely flustered and miss the beast entirely while you are soiling your drawers. The answer is practice, practice, practice.

Have a nice walk and God bless.

*

Thank you for the most intelligent posting on this subject. I made the same case . . . just not nearly as elegantly as you did.
 
redbone said:
Thales: Your presentation is eloquent. Good work!

I concur. Its made me re-think what I carry on my "walks" in the mountains. Very sobering. I have to admit, I am starting to get an "it won't
happen to me" attitude and have begun carrying a 9MM semi instead of my 357 Mag on occassion to due the lightness. I am going back to the .357, and will consider a .44 Mag which I do not yet own.
 
Handguns are Handguns, and Rifles are Rifles, simply put. If I was really going to walk through bear country, I'd carry my 6.5 pound coach gun with some 00 buckshot and a couple rifled slugs or my Marlin 336 with 170 grain FP Hornadies. I MAY carry a .357 mag, 10mm, or .45 ACP, just for a backup. I would not trust a handgun to take down a bear, unless I'm extremely lucky and it's a .41 magnum or up.

If I ever down a bear with a handgun, I will immediatly haul ass to town, buy a lottery ticket, and be afraid of thunderstorms for the rest of my life.
 
Have seen blacks and browns in wild and have much respect for them. Both are dangerous. I carry a roundbutted 5.5" redhawk with 300 gr handloads and a fiber optic front sight. When I am fishing and dont want extra weight, I carry aforementioned gun. When I am after moose with an '06, I carry the aforementioned gun. When I am after spruce grouse with a .22, I carry the aforementioned gun. When I take the fam for a hike, I carry the aforementioned gun. You get the idea. :)

And hello to all.
 
I've been in lurk mode for a spell....

I backpack in throughout the eastern Sierra at least once a year. Some years are worse for bear than others. I've yet to have a problem with them or any other large game species. What I have had problems with are dogs and their owners. I have a large dog and keep him on a leash. Most other people do not. I know from experience that if a dog gets into a scrap and the skin is punctured, the dog can be crippled by infection after 3 days. Because of this, I have no sense of humor when other peoples' dogs try to fight with mine. I carry a light machete and use the dull edge as a bludgeon to deter the furry beasts. But, one time, some guy let his 2 dogs, a large shepherd mix and a Rottwieller, run toward my party at flank speed from about 200 yards distant growling the entire way. They were locked onto my dog who was sitting obediently off to my right side. The dog owner made no attempt to call off his dogs despite repeated verbal requests to do so. I finally dropped my pack and drew down on the lead animal when the owner finally did stop his dogs.

Hence, my choice in firearms. I carry a 1911 in .45 ACP stoked with commercial hollow points on the trail unless I think the threat of bear outweighs the threat of man and his dog. On those occasions, I'll carry my 4 5/8" Ruger SBH stoked with 300gr WFN solids I handloaded just for this purpose. BTW, for those who don't know, we don't get grizzly in the Sierra or anywhere else in California.
 
Jay Kominek said:
The G20 is 10mm. The reference to 200 grain bullets is sort of a give away.


Hi Jay . . I was trying to be tongue and cheek a bit with the 9mm guys and happened to use Nailshooters post to reply. I should have used used a new post. The 10 MM is an excellent round for most purposes and I think very highly of it.
 
1911 Tuner that reminds me of an experience I had along time ago. My friend and I knew a man from Oceola OH. that wrote about bow hunting in one of the first Mags. He had several people stop by all the time. One weekend as we were over there a retired NY Fireman Captain stopped by to buy "then" some special 3 blade Ben Pearson broad heads. I noticed in his truck a large homemade spear. He stated he used that to go into brush when he shot a bear. His passion was shooting cinamon bears which is a red black bear. He told several tales of putting several arrows into some as they climed the tree after him. No balls no glory he said. I think he had some big ones.
Jim
 
I bet that guy hikes with a wheelbarrel under him.

You'd never seem me bearhunting with a bow...
 
He is my research on the topic

Hey everyone this is my first post. This thread talks about exactly what I'm looking for. I've been camping/backpacking/hiking all my life. The only animals that concern me are bears. I've only seen black bear in my experience, each time they ran off after making some noise.

Here are my finds.

note- Given it's versatility for hunting, I think a 18" barrel pump-action shotgun is best, but that weighs in at around 7 pounds. Which isn't bad, but sometimes, especially with only a pair of people, you need to go ultralight. Soo, onto the handguns...


it looks like a lot of people have mentioned the .357magnum
The best 357 I could find for hiking was the S&W 386 HIVIZ. This revolver has 7 shots and weighs 18.5 ounces. Perfect to carry a lot and shot a little.
163687_large.jpg


but when your talking about camping in bear country i think you need a higher caliber, so i found this: Taurus's 444 UltraLight .44magnum.
6 shots and weighs 28 ounces. a lot cheaper than the S&W 44's too.
H_444MULTI.jpg



and since this is a trail gun, i think you should be prepared to abuse it a little. i.e. do'nt buy anything too nice. weeks on the trail will get to everything eventually. also for this reason i think the simplicity of the revolver is better suited for backpacking (instead of a pistol)


one last note; all wild animals are inherintly avoidant of smoke. A campfire at night is a very good defense against wild animals. This is not true with socialized animals, (like NPS animals) they most likely consider campfires to be a source of food.
 
Have you checked out the ultralite tracker total titanium in .41 mag? It's something like 24 ounces. The selection of ammo is better in .44, but a handloader and spice up the .41 big time. I'm not too sure how hot you'd wanna make it in the Taurus, but I'd think 1000 ft lbs is possible.

I have relied on a .357 magnum in black bear country in the past. I don't feel too at risk with it. My Rossi was a 30 ounce unloaded revolver, very easy to carry. My current Taurus M66 is a bit heavier at about 34 ounces, but more accurate. It's about the same weight as my old Ruger Security Six.

I have a Blackhawk in .45 colt, too, but it's around 40 ounces and ammo is heavier. I still like .357.
 
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