Physical knowledge (a.k.a. programmed reactions)

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To the best of my understanding, any sequence of physical actions can become "programmed" into you nervous system when practiced and repeated enough times. I've read that the neurological trigger actually bypasses the brain and is fired from the core of nerve cells in your upper spine/brain stem.

20 years ago I was big time into martial arts and we drilled techniques relentlessly.

The positive to this....these motions become almost instantaneous twitch-like reactions......think of a boxers left jab, right cross.

The negative....I found that I did not have the same "rational control" over some of these reactions.

An example....I confronted my highschool age nephew back then because I was positive he had stolen something from me. I was very upset with him and when he denied it.... without thinking a thought, I popped him in the stomach with a front kick.

In one sense, I can honestly say "it just happened" in a "split second". Flame me if you must....but I'm telling you the honest truth....the reaction bypassed any and all thought process.

But it didn't really "just happen" did it? No, it took three years of training 10 to 20 hours a week to make it happen.

I dropped out of Karate a year later, partially because I felt that it was changing me in ways I didn't desire. And lest anyone think all martial arts practitioners are nut cakes, the dojo I trained at was NOT full of psycho's, self control was demanded (i.e. the lead instructor banned a top student for getting sucked into a petty bar fight).

Based on this experience and others, I am very wary of programming myself for "conditioned reactions".

This is also one of the reasons why for 20 years I haven't trusted myself to go CCW. I think I've changed a lot since then and I'm seriously considering CCW today.

Does anyone have anything constructive to share about "programmed reactions" as they apply to hand guns.

Any thought on intentionally limiting your training to avoid "programmed reactions"

Here's an example of what I'm thinking....I'm not an LEO, PI or Repo-man....so I don't feel the need to develop a "quick draw" and I would deliberately NOT train that way.
 
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I think it has nothing to do with 'programmed' responses overriding reason. You were angry when you kicked your nephew. You let emotion override reason.

If you think you are still susceptible to rage taking control, I suggest you have some issues that need to be discussed with a psychiatrist.

Pilgrim
 
Muscle memory is a very real phenomonon. All sports exploit this. This allows you to concentrate on other things, like strategy and opponents around you. If you had to think about the proper way to kick a soccer ball every time you did it, quite frankly, you'd be a horrible soccer player, and stumbling over your own feet.

I don't think that is exactly the same thing that you are describing here, though. Sounds more like a bit of an anger management issue, which manifested itself in your lightning reflexes.

I was a nationally-ranked fencer for several years, I can't say I ever experienced the control problems you are asking about. In fact, I did everthing I could to make my reactions not only faster than the next person, but also more correct - I wanted the best response, not just the fastest. I guess I also trained myself to associate the act of putting the fencing mask on with the appropriate time to beat people over the head with a sword. However, CC isn't a game with rules and points, it's my life and I want to have the advantage over any opponents - therefore I will take a training class occasionally.

(If anyone thinks they are getting anything stick-shaped near my head, think again - I still got my muscle memory after 10 years. :p )
 
i'd have to agree with the others.....you're nephew didn't attack you. if he did, and you reacted that quickly, THAT would have been muscle memory; for sure you can condition yourself to respond without thinking when being attacked. it does seem however, like you were just pissed-off, and made a bad decision. if you still have impulses like that, i would definitely think hard before carrying at all.
 
Anger managment.

Sounds like the incident 20 years ago was an anger managment issue. Do you think you still have those issues, because if you do CCW is not for you. You have to loose any semblence of an attitude if you carry a gun. You can't let little things get you mad. If another drive gives you the bird he is just saying you are number one in his book for example. You can't get mad about it.

Muscle memory with regards to drawing your gun I don't think is anything to worry about. It is, only if anger causes you to draw the gun, not defense of self or others.

Just my $0.02 worth.
 
The actual physiology is that when motor sequences are practiced enough - the voluntary action sequence is programmed into the cerebellum. That's the lobe thingee at the base of the brain.

Thus, when you perceive the action - and you do need your brain for this - you then have the cerebellum fire off the now automatic sequence.

Many folks don't know what the term 'brain' means, no offense, they think using your brain means active conscious cognition. That's not true, your actual physical brain does lots without consciousness and that's what muscle memory - a bad term, is actually about.
 
SSN, I'm retired Navy. I used to be a "hothead" in my younger days. Finally, I grew out of it. That's one of those things that comes with maturity. As far as CCW, I carry. There is a great responsibility that comes with carrying a weapon. The need to know WHEN to use it and when not to. Maybe I would suggest that you attend a carry class and learn about CCW and all of the legal ramifications.

I was into Judo during the early 80s. The throws, holds, and tactics I learned did become almost intinctive. But that happens with anything after a while. It's a result of continual practicing.
 
subconscious

There is much to consider here in the trainging we engage in.

For example, I would never, rapid fire, blaze away at my target at the range.
Even if I had an abundance of cheap ammo, and a nice looking young lady alonside. That blazing away, making lots of noise, smoke and fire can, and will, become ingrained. You do not want to be doing it in another situation; away from the target range! I'm not referring to rapid, but controlled fire here.

Then, I would not use the isoceles; trianular stance when practicing; recognizing that I might adopt it at a crisis moment, and could loose my balance should something happen.
The navy vet had commented on Judo, balance, and reflex. Human balance is precarious when both the feet are placed side by side, that is perpindicular to any applied force we recieve.

Yet another error in training memory might be the casual and incorrect method of reloading for revolvers or self loading pistols.

Or, the shooting of one point on a target, or one bullseye, until you are no longer able to identify where you are hitting precisely.

Qick draw drills are necessary, however, I would not strive to be another Dell Reed, but would spend most of my shooting time on the fundamental skills.
A true suprise attack will not be nullified by a rapid draw, but rather, by an alert recognition of it before hand.

That kind of thing.

Even recreational shooting can become a subconscious routine that can be costly under a serious circumstance. Train, practice, shoot with realism in mind. You will do as you have trained to do under stress.

In another thread here, the poster related how he had thoughtlessly placed his hand on his pocketed gun when a police officer had pulled him over and requested to see his license. I wonder if the poster had done a lot of practice "going for his gun?"

You may have not had a deliberate thought to kick your cousin, however, during some of all that repetitious trainging the situation may have been very similar to your confrontation so that you entered into your drill with your cousin before you could stop yourself. As you described it, there was not a reflex reaction, but rather the "momentum" had gone past the point of no return.

In our training we must strive to make it a thinking process rather than going through motions not connected with intellect or under the control of the mind.

We all need to review regularly what we are thinking while handling firearms, and the reality of the situation.
 
SSN Vet,

According to the research I've read on this they say it takes ~4000 repetitions for an action or reaction to become automatic instinct. I have some expereince with it. What they don't bother to say is that there are some activities that some people will never master (don't ask me how i know :D) and others who are "gifted" and require less.

I can't recall having lost a physical skill that I've mastered. I am talking about experience with things like skateboarding, nunchucks, bike riding, and knife throwing. There's more (frisbee anyone ;)) but you get the point and I'll bet you can still do those karate moves if you are willing to pay the price. I've been able to impress people with these self-taught skills (unique moves) even if I have not done them in years. I require some recovery afterwards since the muscles are no longer toned and stamina is lacking but the reflexes, balance, timing, and judgement are still there enough to get the job done.

As for as concealed presentations specifically, I trained intensively to develop it then backed off. Could be an option for you? I still practice but not frequently and when I do practice I don't overdo it. A half dozen repetitions is enough to reassure me. Even that little bit is eough to start me down the road to tendonitis. I am not into permanant injury.

I know what I am saying goes against the prevailing theory of "practice, practice, practice!". Well that makes a ton of sense for a neophyte but I've been shooting for more than 40 years. At what point am I going to forget how to jerk a pistol, align sights, and pull a trigger? That doesn't seem overly complicated to me. Without some practice I'd never develop new skills though and that's how I prefer to advance my abilities.

Hope I didn't confuse anybody :)
 
considering the responses

Thanks for the responses to my post....

Although my initial reaction to the "you've got anger management issues" comment was defensive....I figured that this was important enough to give that serious thought. I'll pass on the head shrinker though....just can't buy into the underlying assumptions of most of todays pop psychology.

Considering Ryders comments...I think you've got something. Thinking back to that day (one of the all time worst days of my life) the kick was a "pop"...without any follow through...not a full powered thrust that would bend a heavy bag.

OBTW...I've never hit another person since that incident 20 years ago and after 16 years of competitive hockey, I was never sucked into a fight once....so I wouldn't characterise myself as a complete hot head.

As for the responsibility of CCW....that't why I surf THR and open my thoughts up for critique. I will NOT go there if I perceive any self control issues.

In many ways CCW appears to have very sobering aspects that I think would evoke greater self control. Kind of like the occasions in my navy days when I had to transport VERY highly classified material....the thought "don't screw this up...stay focussed" was kept right in the front of my mind.

I won't go CCW without training to what I personally feel is satisfactory proficiency. It's the automatic reflex thing that makes me wary.
 
Muscle memory and self control.

Muscle memory is a real thing, as mentioned. That's why we practice those draws and double taps and such. It's also why we practice being aware of our surroundings. Do it long enough and it becomes habit to pay attention. However, muscle memory requires some stimulus to trigger it. A punch thrown triggers a reaction from a boxer that is instinctual, a fly ball puts an outfielder into motion before he really processes all the visual input from the balls flight. The stimulus for you kicking your nephew, however, was anger, not a "legit" stimulator in this scenario. Had it been true muscle memory, you wouldn't have short stroked the kick, unless you practice that way. I think this one gets chalked up to a short fuse 20 years ago.
 
My mind and body are getting to a place where they can reload without me consciously thinking about the steps. I shoot in a lot of IPSC matches and if there is one thing that is important it is doing quick reloads. I will usually practice these at home 2-3 times per week for 30-45 minutes per week. I am also getting really good at feeling if my gun is at slide lock. When I first started shooting I had trouble noticing that my gun was at slide lock, but now that I have around 5K rounds through my XD I am a lot more in tune with how it feels.
 
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