NOLA and California highway patrol

Now the gloves are certainly off.

Funny how the same chap who tells a woman this:

M-Rex said:

Take a valium and settle down.

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Then proceeds to say:

M-Rex said:

What you are doing is simply painting with a broad brush and generalizing. [...]
There's a word for what you are demonstrating.

Bigotry.

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...But of course what you're proffering is the great wisdom of the Mature Male In Uniform?
Take a Valium yourself; I do not indulge in such. Then perhaps you could be looking after the log in your own eye.

Those chippies who sacked that little old woman weren't on 'my' team. Nor were those two female NOPD winners who were walking around filling up their WalMart cart. They were disgraceful, and I sincerely hope their badges were torn from their respective chests after they returned to their departments.

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Yet you are "100% pro-police," are you? They were police. You're claiming you are not "pro" them. Explain.

You still fail to see the grave difference between looting (are we sure? Perhaps they were in the process of "looting" in order to feed the hungry or clothe the naked; we cannot tell for sure from a contextless video) and forcibly depriving someone of a Constitutionally-protected right, the latter fully revealed in the video: nature of possession and the police reaction.

What you are doing is simply painting with a broad brush and generalizing. I saw a cop do a bad thing, therefore ALL cops do bad things. Rant, rave, whine, complain, generalize, rinse, repeat...

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I call BS! Have you not read a word I have written? --I'm okay-fine with The Man; I'm all in favor of the police...right up 'til the Boys in Blue try disarming me under NOLA-disaster conditions, at which point I will conceal and lie first in order to give the officers a chance to back down and shoot only if I must. But make no mistake: I'm not as nice as the grandmother in the video: I will shoot.

M-Rex said:

There's a word for what you are demonstrating.

Bigotry.

Chaw on that.

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You're darned right. I'm a bigot. I am extremely prejudiced against jack-booted thugs pretending to be peace officers. I think they should be hunted to extermination. I thought our modern society pretty much already had done so and all we had to worry about were the soft-headed wimps among brave and honest LEOs. NOLA proved me wrong.

Being fair-minded does not require me to approve of evil. And disarming little old ladies -- or healthy young men -- in their own homes during a breakdown of civil order is purely and simply evil.

--Herself

Logan5 said:

Wooo, this one's getting a little out of hand.

I'm kind of reluctant to weigh in on katrina/rita threads, but the unforgivable thing there was when someone gave you bad information and it kept you from doing the most good for the most people. It's not like CHP came up with this idea themselves, someone in Louisiana government with apparent authority told them to do it, and they got suckered. It's not a nice feeling. But it'd be nice if the people who came up with the idea, shouted it in the papers, and conned the people from all over the country who came to help got burned for it.

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Is "suckered" a legal defense if you claim someone of authority told you to break the law? Please don't cut these scum any breaks.
Soldiers in Iraq know better than to bodyslam a little old lady who isn't a threat and then have several other soldiers jump on top of the pile. Have you seen the full video?
CT

Lawyers and LEOs...

I hope that I'm not veering too much with this question, but as a matter of curiousity, if I lied to the cops or NG when they asked me if I had any firearms in a NOLA situation and then had to shoot some looters later, could I be prosecuted for telling said lie?
Biker

Mississippi is working on a law that makes NOLA Katrina style gun confiscations illegal.

It's a shame that a separate law is needed but since the Supreme Court won't stand up for individual gun owner's rights, perhaps it's a good idea.

I hope other States follow Mississippi's lead. Well, at least the States that are already gun friendly. I don't expect California to jump on this bandwagon.

Biker said:

I hope that I'm not veering too much with this question, but as a matter of curiousity, if I lied to the cops or NG when they asked me if I had any firearms in a NOLA situation and then had to shoot some looters later, could I be prosecuted for telling said lie?

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Good question. In all honesty, in such an instance, the questioning officer would likely not recall questioning you, and would not record your name.

There were many private citizens openly carrying legally owned firearms, who were not approached, not questioned, and not bothered by law enforcement. I know. I was among them.

I suppose it was easier to confiscate pearl handled Colt revolvers from 78 year old women than it was to confiscate MAC-10s from young thugs. After all, if you are going to take a film crew along for the confiscation, you want to be successful, right?

I suppose it was easier to confiscate pearl handled Colt revolvers from 78 year old women than it was to confiscate MAC-10s from young thugs. After all, if you are going to take a film crew along for the confiscation, you want to be successful, right?

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Bingo.....Thats why Ashton was not bothered. I assume they suspected he meant business. All it takes is a decision that Today might be a good day to die. He made that decision.

CentralTexas said:

Is "suckered" a legal defense if you claim someone of authority told you to break the law? Please don't cut these scum any breaks.
Soldiers in Iraq know better than to bodyslam a little old lady who isn't a threat and then have several other soldiers jump on top of the pile. Have you seen the full video?
CT

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Unfortunately, sometimes, even with all of the background checks, an idiot or two slips through the cracks. Some folks just test well. Of course, it is these idiots who end up getting themselves videoed and make the whole of L.E. look bad. Thankfully, they are an extremely small minority.

Biker said:

I hope that I'm not veering too much with this question, but as a matter of curiousity, if I lied to the cops or NG when they asked me if I had any firearms in a NOLA situation and then had to shoot some looters later, could I be prosecuted for telling said lie?
Biker

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Nope. You weren't lying. You were operating under a pretext. A ruse. Perfectly legal.

Oleg Volk said:

A THR moderator who transgressed on the job would have been fired. A CHP officer who transgressed is still employed by them. Add to this that the gravity of transgressions possible on THR is minimal compared to what CHP did.

CHP isn't being faulted just for the actions of their bad apples, but also for retaining the same bad apples instead of firing and prosecuting them. That suggests institutional approval for their actions. Any organization that tolerates this type of activity by their employees deserves no support. The individuals responsible deserve a speedy trial for violation of human rights of their victims.

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That's not entirely accurate. I don't know what's happening with the particular guy shown in the video, but I do know that departments have whole sections set aside for internal affairs investigations. They are staffed with folks who love nothing more than to put the screws to other officers.

Also...in L.E., hiring and firing is goverened by the Civil Service Commission. Employees can't simply be shown the door. There is an entire legal process that must be gone through...including a civilian review board, usually. It's much like being a teacher who receives tenure. Also, there's a whole lot of uncomfortable stuff that can happen prior to being terminated. All of it follows a person wherever he/she goes because it's ALL documented. And each one stacks upon the previous one in a 'paper trail'.

I know some of you really, really want there to be a vast L.E. conspiracy of institutionally sanctioned abuses so it will justify your skewed world view, but it just simply isn't there.

M-Rex said:

That's not entirely accurate. I don't know what's happening with the particular guy shown in the video, but I do know that departments have whole sections set aside for internal affairs investigations. They are staffed with folks who love nothing more than to put the screws to other officers.

Also...in L.E., hiring and firing is goverened by the Civil Service Commission. Employees can't simply be shown the door. There is an entire legal process that must be gone through...including a civilian review board, usually. It's much like being a teacher who receives tenure. Also, there's a whole lot of uncomfortable stuff that can happen prior to being terminated. All of it follows a person wherever he/she goes because it's ALL documented. And each one stacks upon the previous one in a 'paper trail'.

I know some of you really, really want there to be a vast L.E. conspiracy of institutionally sanctioned abuses so it will justify your skewed world view, but it just simply isn't there.

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I'm glad you explained this long drawn out proceedure to me. Otherwise, I'd have worried myself sick that some iggert California lawmen would take it upon themselves to come down here and shoot some of our precious gators in front of rolling cameras and get off scott free. Now I know that under "due process" they'll eventually get their cumupance.

What? Those guys didn't shoot the 'gators in front of cameras? Oh. Well. Might take much longer then to sort out their guilt or innocence. I understand they need to be shielded until its all straightened out. Civilian review boards...Civil Service Commisions...paper trails...all that...years. While those poor 'gators died in vain...what? Oh, THOSE guys? They're GONE!!!!!!!! How can this be???? It takes soooo long, what with Civil Service Commission stuff, civilian review boards, paper trails....

Its the ones who kicked the little old lady's door in, illegally disarmed her, gang tackled the dangerous lil' grannie, broke her shoulder and forcibly shipped her out of state that all the procedures are in place to protect. Makes sense to me. Glad you could shed some light on THAT.

Meplat said:

I'm glad you explained this long drawn out proceedure to me. Otherwise, I'd have worried myself sick that some iggert California lawmen would take it upon themselves to come down here and shoot some of our precious gators in front of rolling cameras and get off scott free. Now I know that under "due process" they'll eventually get their cumupance.

What? Those guys didn't shoot the 'gators in front of cameras? Oh. Well. Might take much longer then to sort out their guilt or innocence. I understand they need to be shielded until its all straightened out. Civilian review boards...Civil Service Commisions...paper trails...all that...years. While those poor 'gators died in vain...what? Oh, THOSE guys? They're GONE!!!!!!!! How can this be???? It takes soooo long, what with Civil Service Commission stuff, civilian review boards, paper trails....

Its the ones who kicked the little old lady's door in, illegally disarmed her, gang tackled the dangerous lil' grannie, broke her shoulder and forcibly shipped her out of state that all the procedures are in place to protect. Makes sense to me. Glad you could shed some light on THAT.

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Actually, the process can take as little as two weeks, or as long as a year or so depending on appeals.

If the officer is still on probation, which can be anything from 6-18 months, he/she can be fired on the spot.

M-Rex said:

Unfortunately, sometimes, even with all of the background checks, an idiot or two slips through the cracks. Some folks just test well. Of course, it is these idiots who end up getting themselves videoed and make the whole of L.E. look bad. Thankfully, they are an extremely small minority.

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It's not the small minority part that worries us plain ol' folk. It's the protected small minority part that gets us.

While those boys were down here showin' us backwoods rednecks how Diane Feinstein's Utopia looks, the 'gator shooting scum are out on their butts so fast they didn't even realize they hit the pavement until they bounced the second time.

And we get LE's like yourself saying "molon labe!" in his sig line, and then whizzin' and moanin' if someone should dare elaborate as to when an appropriate time to take that stance might arise.

Let's not forget the Sept. 4 killings on the Danziger Bridge in New Orleans.

Much more than alligators was killed by law enforcement officers in New Orleans.

Meplat said:

[snip a bunch of tinfoil beanie, bigoted hot air and bluster]

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Please put me on your ignore list.

M-Rex said:

Please put me on your ignore list.

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Nah....I don't think so.

Oleg Volk said:

It is a testament ot the patience of even the least patient American that some of the least savory law enforcement agencies have not been bombed yet. My guess is that those who have the skill,the will and the motivation to fight offensively simply move to other jurisdictions and avoid conflict. Someday it will change, most likely after somebody competent loses family members to law enforcement activities.

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"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shown that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

True in 1776. True today.

The comission of such evils by CHP and the lack of redress by CHP management makes what Oleg descibes more likely. Gutting our liberties at the Federal level also brings that day closer, as there is no place in America to move to in order to avoid the gutting.

Let us make no bones about it: what CHP did and what NOLA's chief & mayor ordered were acts of evil.

Meplat said:

Nah....I don't think so.

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Welcome to mine.

XavierBreath said:

Let's not forget the Sept. 4 killings on the Danziger Bridge in New Orleans.

Much more than alligators was killed by law enforcement officers in New Orleans.

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Xavier, no matter WHAT M-Rex thinks about my "authority-phobic" tendencies, I just don't think that this rises (until much further investigation) to any kind of accurate depiction of what was happening in NOLA after Katrina came calling.

There WERE scumbag ass hats sniping at LE and rescue workers. I don't know whether the Danziger bridge incident falls under the heading of fools shooting at those trying to help them or not. Just not enough information available. It may have been a case of them (the police) recieving fire and returning it (I wouldn't expect any wounded to stand up and say "Yeah, I shot at the nice cops"), or it may have been the case that they recieved fire from that general direction and weren't sure of who they were returning fire on. I know I don't expect anyone to be shot at and not return fire, LEO or otherwise. I just honestly don't see enough to say one way or the other at this time. I certainly don't believe that they intentionally set out to kill or wound victims of the storm and it's aftermath for fun and games. Maybe I have blinders on, but I honestly can't believe that. In fact, when I first heard they had taken out someone taking pot-shots at rescue workers, I cheered them. If it turns out that they did indeed take out some of the dillweeds involved in that insanity, I'll salute them. The gene pool needed a cleaning in some places.

Even as far as the 'gator shooting cops go, I still haven't heard enough to know whether their summary dismissal was warranted (other than the fact that they broke their department's regs on reporting having fired their service weapons). I've lived in 'gator country a long time now, fished with my boat floating right beside them, and they don't overly concern me. BUT having said that, even being familiar with them, I don't know that I'd feel too awfully comfortable around large dangerous animals that had been severely disturbed by nature and who may possibly have dined on human flesh. I know the only 'gators who do scare me are those who have been fed by people and associate them with food. If I had no experience with them at all, they'd most likely scare the p*&s out of me, and I might indeed shoot one if it was anywhere near me.

The ones I have the problem with are the ones who blatantly and illegally barged into people's homes, disarmed them without due process, and rounded them up like Hitler's Gestapo and shipped them off. There is more than ample video evidence of this occuring. THESE people don't need months and months of investigation. They shouldn't be being protected now, they shouldn't be (and of course aren't) on suspension. Where they should be is sitting in a jail cell or fresh out of one on bond, awaiting trial.

Sorry, M-REX, if I spoiled your view of us redneck anti-police types.

Edited: I've noted that M-Rex has decided to ignore me. His perogative. Shame he'll have to miss me taking the side of LEO's who are actually doing what they are supposed to be doing, though.

Hey Molon Labe who is Ashton?

Ashton O'Dwyer is an attorney who lives on St. Charles Street, and who basically told the same gun confiscating folks if they tried to take his guns "There will be gunfire." He was left alone. He is now prosecuting Mrs. Konie's case.

On September 8th, 2005, defendants, acting under color of State law in an official capacity, and in violation of federal and state law, wrongfully trespassed on premises legally occupied by plaintiff at [address withheld], and committed the following additional torts against plaintiff, her person and her property:

a) Assault and battery, including using excessive force under the circumstances;

b) False imprisonment by illegally taking plaintiff into custody and transporting her to South Carolina, from which she did not return to New Orleans until October 13th, 2005;

c) Intentional infliction of emotional distress; and

d) Conversion of legally owned property, to wit, a chrome 32 caliber Colt Revolver, with a pearl handle, which has not been returned to plaintiff.

By virtue of having committed the above-identified torts against plaintiff and her property, defendents violated rights, privileges, and immunities guaranteed to plaintiff under the Second, Fourth and Fourteenth Amendments of the United States Constitution, all in violation of 42 USC 1983.

In addition, certain of the defendents conspired to deprive plaintiff of rights, privileges and immunities guaranteed to plaintiff by the United States Constitution, all in violation of 42 USC 1985.

Further, certain of the defendants, who had full knowledge of their colleagues' conspiring to violate, and actually violating, plaintiff's constitutional rights, and committing torts against plaintiff's person and property, failed to intervene, all in violation of 42 USC 1986.

Defendants' acts and omissions were practiced with malice and/or with reckless disregard for plaintiff's federally protected rights, as well as her rights under state law.

As a direct result of the above-described tortious and illegal conduct by defendants, plaintiff sustained severe and disabling personal injuries, including injuries to her face, nose, left eye, left shoulder, left arm, and chest, among other injuries to her mind and body, for which surgery may be necessary, and causing plaintiff excruciating pain, suffering, mental anguish, humiliation, and embarassment.

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Good to know some people will still eat a grenade for their freedom.


That is the only way the military can get an armed man out of his house without more casualties after the initial assault. Frag him or blow the place up either way when it happens we'll know.

M rex;
Have you checked the statistics on all LEO's within 100 miles of the Mexican border, specifically , how many police officers, dog catchers, dispatchers, constables, deputy constables, sheriffs, deputy sheriffs ,DA's, asst. DA's , judges , jp's custom officers and immigration inspectors have been sent up in the last 10 years?
It is enough to fill up a special prison in Texas and several protective prisons in the other states and in the Federal system.
I have respect for honest LEO's, however, I have known a bunch of crooked scum who carry badges.
My uncle by mariage retired and a few years later got a ticket for speeding and was outraged that he got it even after he showed his retired LEO ID.
He expected to be exempt from the law the rest of his life because he was retired LEO.
This is the norm, not the exception, no matter how much you may protest.
Refer to the recent Chicago councilman who was publically outraged that his off duty cop chauffer got a ticket for speeding, he said he told the arresting officer he expected "professional courtesy" and was really upset when his driver got a ticket and he was charged with interfering with an officer for trying to stop the officer from giving a ticket.
There are very good reasons most people do not have any use for public officials.
, including their sycophants in uniform.

drinks said:

M rex;
Have you checked the statistics on all LEO's within 100 miles of the Mexican border, specifically , how many police officers, dog catchers, dispatchers, constables, deputy constables, sheriffs, deputy sheriffs ,DA's, asst. DA's , judges , jp's custom officers and immigration inspectors have been sent up in the last 10 years?
It is enough to fill up a special prison in Texas and several protective prisons in the other states and in the Federal system.
I have respect for honest LEO's, however, I have known a bunch of crooked scum who carry badges.

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Ok. Name them. All of them.

My uncle by mariage retired and a few years later got a ticket for speeding and was outraged that he got it even after he showed his retired LEO ID.
He expected to be exempt from the law the rest of his life because he was retired LEO.

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I assume you told him to never associate with you again because of your outrage? You DID ostracise him, didn't you? I mean, really...it's only the right thing to do.

This is the norm, not the exception, no matter how much you may protest.
Refer to the recent Chicago councilman who was publically outraged that his off duty cop chauffer got a ticket for speeding, he said he told the arresting officer he expected "professional courtesy" and was really upset when his driver got a ticket and he was charged with interfering with an officer for trying to stop the officer from giving a ticket.
There are very good reasons most people do not have any use for public officials.
, including their sycophants in uniform.

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So it's the cop's fault for writing the ticket that the councilman tried to interfere with and that's why all cops are pigs?

How many shifty mechanics do you 'know'?

Ever meet a crooked lawyer?

Taxi drivers?

Ever got bad service at a restaraunt?

Maybe a bad haircut, even?

If any or all of these things happened to you, then is it safe to conclude that ALL mechanics, and ALL lawyers, and ALL taxi drivers, and ALL restaraunt employees, and ALL barbers are now on your poo-poo list.

You know...because all of them are just out to get you...and the sycophants who defend them too.

CentralTexas said:

Is "suckered" a legal defense if you claim someone of authority told you to break the law? Please don't cut these scum any breaks.
Soldiers in Iraq know better than to bodyslam a little old lady who isn't a threat and then have several other soldiers jump on top of the pile. Have you seen the full video?
CT

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I'm not trying to mount a legal defense for the CHP officers on the video, my point is, who is more dangerous to all of our rights, personally? The individual loaned police officer, or the elected/appointed official who's supposed to be in charge who orders stuff like this? Sure, it was an outrageous incident, and yeah, there should be consequences for the officers, but should we really be singing and dancing when the officers caught on tape get canned and the people who ordered it walk off smelling like roses?

Mmm, sacrificial lamb, tasty... what was all the fuss about again? Nevermind, totally satisfied, nap time.