Is it true that Lon Horiuchi lives in fear for his life? (No Drift This Time Please!)

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MY NOTES:

Weaver had hung out with Aryan Nations (who Weaver called "convicts
and crooks" and "off the deep end.") ATF agent handler Herb Byerly
run an NCIC check on Weaver: no record not even a traffic ticket.
Byerly approached Weaver to snitch for ATF after FBI informant Rico
Valentino "outted" ATF informant Gus Magisono in a turf war over
Aryan Nations. Weaver refused. Byerly filed a first-time, non-violent
misdemeanor charge after Weaver refused to snitch but he told
prosecutor Ron Howen that Weaver was a "suspected bank robber" with
"criminal convictions" and strong ties to the Aryan Nations. Weaver
missed a 20 February 1991 hearing due in part to a PreTrial Services
notice giving the date as 20 March 1991. The case snowballed into an
eighteen month stand-off with the US Marshal Service (the LE arm of
the federal court system) in part due to "no compromises" attitudes
by prosecutor Ron Howen and Vicki Weaver.

21 August 1992 Sammy Weaver died in a shooting involving Sammy and
Kevin Harris encountering Recon Team Marshals Larry Cooper, Art
Roderick and Bill Degan at the "Y" fork in the trail. Marshal
Roderick fired one round which killed Sammy's dog Striker. Sammy
fired three rounds at Roderick. Marshal Degan fired seven rounds,
one of which struck Sammy's elbow. Marshal Cooper fired six rounds,
one of which went in Sammy's back, through his heart and out his
chest. Kevin Harris fired one shot that killed Marshal Degan and
one shot that drove Cooper to cover. (Ballistics evidence from
trial testimony of prosecution experts Martin L. Fackler and
Lucien "Luke" Haag.)

The marshals fired fourteen shots, the Weaver party five at the
"Y". Marshal Dave Hunt reported to US Marshal Service headquarters
that there was no shooting after 11:15am and the three marshals
left on the mountain (Cooper, Roderick and Frank Norris) refused to
abandon Degan's body. The HRT was deployed on the belief that the
marshals were pinned down by sporadic machinegun fire all afternoon
by hardcore Aryans. No one has been publicly held responsible for
garbling the info.

The next day, 22 August 1992, the FBI HRT snipers deployed.

At about 5:45pm sniper Horiuchi heard echoes off the north ridge
of a helicopter south of the cabin, assumed the Weavers were
responding to what he heard--the helicopter (echoes) he heard
north of him--and acted accordingly. Assume: ass{/U]-u-me.

HRT Sniper Christopher Whitcomb of "Sierra 1" sniper team was
north of Horiuchi's "Sierra 4" position and has written in his
memoir Cold Zero he and several other snipers did not hear
the helicopter. In fact, after action, he and the other snipers
were p!$$ed off that HRT Commander Dick Rogers had taken a
sight seeing tour on the helicopter without giving the snipers
a "heads up" warning.

Horiuchi (from 200 yards in bad weather and poor light) claimed
that only Kevin Harris left the cabin with a gun and that Sara
and Randy Weaver were both unarmed. According to the Weavers,
Kevin was carrying a .30-06 bolt action rifle, Randy was
carrying a Savage 1899 lever action rifle and Sara was carrying
a Ruger Mini14.

Horiuchi testfied at trial that he intended to sever "Kevin
Harris"'s spine between the shoulder blades for an instant,
one shot kill. Randy Weaver at the last second reached up to
the door latch of the birthing shed where his dead son's
body lay. The bullet entered Weaver's shoulder and exited the
armpit. Weaver was shot in the back because the sniper believed
he represented a threat to a helicopter the sniper believed was
behind the sniper. The belief that Randy was suspected cop-killer
Kevin Harris (acquitted at trial of the murder of Bill Degan
on grounds of self-defense) and the Ruby Ridge Rules of
Engagement (deadly force can and should be employed on sight)
played no part in the sniper's decision to open fire.

The Weavers claim that they left the cabin because the dogs
barked and they were expecting someone to come up to the cabin
with a "This is the police" callout to start negotiations.
They claim they did not hear a helicopter.

After the trial testimony of the helicopter pilot and USMS
Associate Director of Operations G. Wayne "Duke" Smith, trial
judge Edward Lodge dismissed the charge that Randy Weaver
threatened a helicopter because the helicopter was not north of
the cabin as Horiuchi mistakenly believed. At a hearing on
a manslaughter charge against Horiuchi over the shooting of
Vicki Weaver, Judge Lodge ruled that Horiuchi had a good faith
belief that the helicopter was where he heard it, and had
acted in the reasonable but mistaken belief that he was
protecting the helicopter and its occupants.

The FBI HRT was trained by the Delta Force and most tactical
team members were ex-US Marine Corps. HRT Commander Dick Rogers
ran the Blue and Gold HRT tactical teams under strict military
discipline. The negotiations team was under the HRT Commnader.
HRT negotiators Fred Lanceley, Peter Smerick and Byron Sage
complained (internally) that Dick Rogers treated negotiations
as a nuisance and preferred a tactical solution to problems.
At both Ruby Ridge (Aug 1992) and Waco (Mar 1993), Rogers
responded both Blue and Gold tactical teams to the same site,
which created pressure to end things quickly in case another
crisis required HRT response.

After Ruby Ridge and Waco, the HRT was reorganized under the
Critic Incident Response Group. The tactical teams and the
negotiation team report to CIRC. CIRC not the HRT Commander
makes the decision to go negotiations or to go tactical.
At the Freeman (Montana) and Navy Firing Range (Puerto Rico)
stand-offs, the CIRC resolved the crises without gunfire.
Also, committing all HRT resources to one crisis site is
avoided and today all federal LE agencies operate under the
same deadly force policy.
 
Thanks, Carl.

I back off and look at the larger picture of those days, the political climate and all, and can have nothing but contempt for the attitudes of those in the higher echelons of federal law enforcement.

I think about the actions of the guys who entrapped Weaver on the shotgun deal, and they wouldn't have done that unless they knew such corruption was seen as okay by the higher ups. It's an agency-atmosphere thing.

Then there is the lack of concern about the concept that if you push people hard enough, long enough, they just may well push back: "Ve cannot allow dat; ve haff vays off dealing mit dose peepul!" and all that Stalag 13 stuff.

And the incredible bad judgement about the incredibly lengthy "surveillance" nonsense and the incredible costs thereof! Sheesh!

As with Waco, though, the rest of the deal was just another foregone conclusion. Once the party starts, there's no turning back.

Intellectual incompetence, arrogance, preconceived notions and a total lack of knowledge or concern about people. All the emotional maturity of a pack of dogs after a housecat.

:barf:

Art
 
Husker, "As my wife and I watched the news "stories" coming out of Waco in 1993, she bought into the government's version of the truth hook, line, & sinker. I'd watch the same broadcast, and say to her, "You believe that?" It caused much division between us, and we divorced in 1994", yeah, I believe that, it happened to me, about the same time.
My Ex worked for the Fed, she told them that I was a right wing radical running around with bunch of religious nuts, then called the Sheriff's dept. and repeated the message.
No, I don't miss her, but, at the time, it was hard to let go of a 26 year marriage.
 
posters who have mentioned the authoritarian/disciplinarian nature of the govt have put their finger on the pulse correctly. We have moved, both gradually and sharply, from a "do as you will and suffer the consequences like a big boy" mentality to a "we must control you in advance so you don't commit a crime" mentality.

A govt obsessed with prior restraint is hell to live under.
 
Portents

2 years and 7 months after the last post, I bring the topic back to the fore. It won't take too many staged events like Ruby and Waco to upset the teeming masses to the point where the anti-gun legislature (which will probably be soon elected, in less than 2 weeks) to rant and make all sorts of charges and allegations against (eventually) all gun owners. One simple engineered "mistake" on the hierarchy's part could be used to set us all up, and put in motion the juggernaut of confiscation with Supreme Court blessing, after a few short years and crucial supreme court nominations. It is now 1300 hrs, Oct 24. Today, our stock market will fall ~~900 points. In less than one week our stock market will decline another 900~1100 points, and the world's markets will follow suit. One more week and another 1000~2000 points will shift from U.S. currency to international Gold demands. Your credit cards and cash will approach the point of being worthless. If you cannot eat it, drink it, defend it, or barter it, all that you now own will go up in smoke. I surely would not wnat to be the next president of the U.S, because he cannot make any difference. The bubble has burst. (See posting #79)
 
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