PROOF: Antis Look on Message Boards to Use Our Irresponsible Rhetoric Against Us

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cuchulainn

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Nope, It's not just "blowing off steam." Those of you who talk big about "Feeding the Hogs" and "Taking out JBTs" are nothing but shills for VPC and Brady. You're Josh Sugarman's Useful Idiots. :fire:

Violence Policy Center: New NRA Post-Katrina Fundraising Campaign Targeting Mayors and Police Signals Return to Organization's Days of 'Jack Booted Government Thugs' Extremist Rhetoric

Campaign Validates and Incites Anti-Police Faction of Pro-Gun Movement -- Pro-Gun Group That Joined NRA in Lawsuit Against New Orleans Owns Web Site That Regularly Attacks Police
'This will probably mint money for us,' Says NRA's Wayne LaPierre of Post-Katrina Focus

WASHINGTON, May 18 /PRNewswire/ -- Reports of plans by the National Rifle Association (NRA) to launch a nationwide campaign today targeting Mayors and Police Chiefs to pledge to never confiscate firearms in the wake of a natural disaster or terrorist attack will only validate the extremist views of the anti-law enforcement fringe of the pro-gun movement, the Violence Policy Center (VPC) warned today.

The VPC warned that the NRA was returning to the fear tactics it had embraced in the early 1990s during the Clinton Administration, when the organization adopted the language of the anti-government militia movement, warning that "The Final War Has Begun," calling federal agents "jack booted government thugs" and "storm troopers," and comparing the FBI to goose- stepping Nazis. The NRA abandoned the campaign after former NRA member Timothy McVeigh blew up the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City in April 1995, killing 168 people.

VPC Executive Director Josh Sugarmann states, "The NRA is expert at exploiting high-profile events involving alleged infringement of their perceived 'freedoms' as red meat to motivate the pro-gun hard core. To raise money and retain the support of this faction of activist gun owners, the NRA is willing once again to place America's law enforcement and public officials at risk." In a November 2005 interview with National Journal, NRA Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre said of the organization's focus on police actions during Hurricane Katrina: "This will probably mint money for us."

Written attacks on law enforcement are common on pro-gun web sites and discussion forums. A web site -- http://www.keepandbeararms.com -- owned by the Second Amendment Foundation, which filed a suit against the City of New Orleans with the NRA challenging gun confiscations during Katrina, regularly has posted comments attacking law enforcement. The web site has a section titled "The Authorities" which features alleged government intrusions on gun ownership and police misconduct. Posts on the site that appeared following Hurricane Katrina and reports of weapon confiscations included:

  • "I do not care who you are, or what authority you claim to possess. If you attempt to disarm me, I will kill you. It is becoming increasingly clear that the government will use any tragedy or excuse to violate our rights and further expand their totalitarian regime....When the government begins to violate the rights of citizens under the auspices of keeping order, hunt down and kill all who follow such illegal orders. Only in this way will liberty prevail."
  • "It was obvious that the lawyer in question [who said that he would not give up his guns, but later did] was talk talk talk, and not shoot shoot shoot."
  • "Twenty JBT's [jack-booted thugs] outside your house may be bullet proof but they're not fire proof."
  • "I hear that some JBTs [jack-booted thugs] enjoy cocktails after work. One cocktail they wouldn't enjoy would be a molotov cocktail."
  • "The question is simple: would you give the cops a piece of crap gun to send them on their way. Or would you be willing to ambush the cops at your door and then have to leave your home and family to go on the run. Would you be willing to stay and fight and be killed. Or do you have people on your street that would be willing to fight and put the cops in a cross fire keeping them out of the area. The big question would you be ready to die in a gun battle."
  • "From my upstairs window, I can cover the front yards of three neighbors. I make head shots at that range freehand all the time. With .223 fmj [full-metal jacket] and up, vest penetration shouldn't be a problem, either."
  • "I have read several accounts, that if it were me, there would have been gun play. I don't say that lightly, however, I would not willingly be illegally disarmed and/or have my dogs shot. I may go down, but I guarantee that I would take more than one of the bastards with me. It is not too much of a stretch with superior weapons to take down a few rogue police. I would seriously try and avoid a confrontation with the military. For one thing, they do not have an agenda, and for another they will have superior firepower and numbers."
  • "I will let the government (city, state, or federal) take my firearms one round at a time, after a good sight picture and trigger squeeze. Give me liberty or give me DEATH!!!
Adds Sugarmann, "The NRA calls this week's convention a meeting of 'Freedom's 2nd Army.' It is now clear who this army's enemy is: law enforcement and public officials."

The Violence Policy Center is a national non-profit educational organization working for a safer America through research, analysis, education, and advocacy. To learn more about the VPC, visit http://www.vpc.org.
 
So, what is your answer?

Just keep quiet no matter how abusive the trampling of our rights becomes?

I am sure that Thomas Jefferson's words about "watering" the tree of liberty raised a few eyebrows in his day as well, but he knew that the only guarantee of freedom was the ability for citizens to overthrow bad government.

There will always be those who want to turn our words against us, why pander to them?
 
Always a good idea to keep your mouth shut...or computer when your emotions are high. ANYTHING you say on a board can be used against you later.
 
Ermmm.... yep.

How many selective quotes from DU and real (The Nation) or perceived (J. Goldberg for chrissake!!) "left wing" media sources do you see here?

Do you think people are doing that in the spirit of honest debate and to understand opposing viewpoints more clearly? Or are they doing that to try and make us all feel superior because we're "better than those wackos"?

VPC's doing the same damn thing. Neither a surprise nor a problem. Don't want to look like a raving extremist (even if you - a generic you - may be one in reality)? Then don't make statements that are those of a raving extremist in any format or medium. Don't care if you look like a raving extremist (either because you are one and happily so or because you just don't care what people think)? Then don't be surprised or offended when your words are used as an example of raving extremism.

Either one is fine - both by me and much more importantly under the law (for now at least - dunno how much longer under the Patriot act and domestic surveillance) but don't try to have your extremist cake and not be forced to eat it too.
 
and?

If it wasn't this it would be something else. Its not like you or I can do anything to make them like us, or to make us seem reasonable to them. All you are asking is that people abandon what is possibly their last cathartic outlet for fear of the VPC boogeyman.
 
just like all the other keyboard-commandoism, and armchair-revolutionaries, those who bark the loudest will likely never bite.
 
Pop Quiz:
If you are afraid that the things you say will cause the government to harm you, then you are living in a:

Another false delima ... we're talking about how our political opponents can use our words out of context against us, not about the government harming us for what we say.



Of course there's nothing to stop a VPC staffer from registering here and then talking about how much they want to kill KILL KILL (it worked for Arlo Guthrie), then print the rant as coming from one of "us".



dmallind said:
EDIT - first sentence was a reference to a retracted post. Remaining paragraphs can stand alone.
:D me too
 
EDIT - first sentence was a reference to a retracted post. Remaining paragraphs can stand alone.


There's a big difference between ranting about government overstepping its bounds and planning violence against the government. I will now make my first (and probably last) ever "I would shoot them" proclamation.....

Had I known what McVeigh and Nichols were planning and could only stop them by shooting I would have done so.

Be aware that some of the rants against sometimes real government excesses can sound VERY similar to talking about being a terrorist, especially out of context. I'm sure ther actually IS a very far fetched scenario in which I would have to shoot someone at least nominally in a position of legitimate authority, but I consider it neither remotely likely, nor remotely fun or interesting to think about, nor something I would plan for and discuss openly.
 
Of course there's nothing to stop a VPC staffer from registering here and then talking about how much they want to kill KILL KILL (it worked for Arlo Guthrie)

Of course, there's also nothing forcing us to respond with equally lusty cries of murderous intent.
 
Sometimes women just need a good cry. Sometimes guys just need to bluster.


If some anonymous person posting on the internet is going to be the downfall of the 2nd amendment and all personal freedoms in this country, then I guess I'm moving to Panama.
 
by Zundfolge Another false delima ... we're talking about how our political opponents can use our words out of context against us, not about the government harming us for what we say.

Of course there's nothing to stop a VPC staffer from registering here and then talking about how much they want to kill KILL KILL (it worked for Arlo Guthrie), then print the rant as coming from one of "us".

Oh so true!!! I call it(this was a popular WWII weapon)PROPAGANDA.
 
"Another false delima ... we're talking about how our political opponents can use our words out of context against us, not about the government harming us for what we say."

Yeah. That's why I redacted it.

Clicked faster than I thought.
 
The wildest, least credible ravings I have read here

pale in comparison to some of the dangerous drivel I've read on the Democratic Underground board. Other than praying that none of those boobs are my neighbors, I chalk it up to sad, powerless people wanting to feel important.

Extremism in any endeavor is no virtue. Yes, they will use our words against us, taking sentences and thoughts out of context if we have no morons who advocate senseless war and killings on the boards.

But I refuse to give up my right to criticize the government OR ANYTHING ELSE.

From my perspective, I fail to see how anyone could call Waco, Ruby Ridge and the bombing of the Murrow Federal Building anything but anarchy and senseless violence ON ALL SIDES. Yes, we have government officers who break the constitution DAILY. It IS our job to point it out in afree society.

Do I cringe every time someone threatens violence against LEO's and local authorities? ABSOLUTELY! DO I detest the "zombie" threads? ABSOLUTELY!

But this IS America and people can express any opinion they want, no matter how much I hate their speech.

:)
 
This is only one of the worst topical areas wherein there are too many posts that are all heat and no light, devoid of maturity or discretion, let alone anything useful.
 
It makes no sense to suppress our feelings on the subject of tyranny since those that seek to eliminate the Second Amendment will never be satisfied with any attempt to sound reasonable. It might even be a good thing for those on the other side of the issue to fear us a little. Wasn't it Macchiavelli that said "In the absence of respect, fear will suffice." or something to that effect? :D

However, those that beat their chests and boast about how they would resist if they were faced with a wrongfull entry by a SWAT team, or the ATF trying to confiscate their arms, I say this: to throw your life away serves no purpose but to supply the media with headlines. If you truly wish to be effective in the fight against tyranny, there is still time to act within the confines of the law to turn the tide. If, as everyone must, you decide for yourself that this is no longer possible, I suggest you follow the method preferred by Bill Clinton; Don't ask, don't tell.
 
Sometimes women just need a good cry. Sometimes guys just need to bluster.


If some anonymous person posting on the internet is going to be the downfall of the 2nd amendment and all personal freedoms in this country, then I guess I'm moving to Panama.

Which totally misses the point.

Acting like a chest-thumping pre-hominid might make you feel good, but it reflects poorly on us all.

THR and other forums get literally thousands of hits every single day. In fact, as I type this, there are over 600 lurkers on this board. How many of them are already pro-gun? How many of them are fence-sitters or newbies looking for information? How many of them are the Rebecca Peters of the world?

No telling. But what I can say is this: We lose absolutely nothing by putting our best foot forward.
 
This is exactly what I've been talking about. I deeply resent gross generalizations about JBTs. I think such people who make such inflammitory remarks have serious issues and are undermining the RKBA.

I realize it's mostly about a particular (absurd) anarchist political ideology (that will go unnamed) but I wish these people would a) sell their guns since they give us a bad name and b) keep their mouths shut.

It's this reactionary nonsense that gives the MSM and leftwingers ammo (pun intended) against us.
 
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Acting like a chest-thumping pre-hominid might make you feel good, but it reflects poorly on us all, and makes me long for the days when families kept the mentally invalid locked away in attics and basements.

Would that be an "ad-hominem" or an "ad-hominid" attack? :neener: Just because someone expresses what you believe is a lack of judgement in his choice of words does not necessarily make them less than an ape nor mentally invalid. How does it reflect upon the moderators of this site when they refer to people they disagree with as such? If you don't like it, ban them, but why the name calling?
;)
 
Acting like a chest-thumping pre-hominid might make you feel good, but it reflects poorly on us all.
I must differ with this. Chest thumping by Silverbacks, screeching and tree thrashing by male chimps, hissing and yowls by domestic cats and tail rattling from rattlesnakes serve the same end purpose that "keyboard commandoism" does for our species. It is a clear warning that those doing the thumping/yowling/rattling should not be trifled with and are best left in peace. Ignore the warning at your own peril.

If the bliss-ninnies at VPC are incapable of comprehending that, well nature is often unkind to mental defectives.
I realize it's mostly about a particular (absurd) anarchist political ideology (that will go unnamed) but I wish these people would a) sell their guns since they give us a bad name and b) keep their mouths shut.
So since YOU feel that those who's political persuasions you find absurd might reflect badly on YOU, they should just be silent? :scrutiny:
 
Ad hominid. :)
I was describing an observed action with flourished language.

I'll note that I went back and moderated (heh) my post, but evidently after you'd done the ctrl+C, ctrl+V.
 
Justin notes:
We lose absolutely nothing by putting our best foot forward
.
And by doing so, we gain respect. And possibly, more people giving favorable consideration to our message.

... pale in comparison to some of the dangerous drivel I've read on the Democratic Underground board.
And what has this to do with our situation here? Few take the lunatic ravings on DU seriously; do you desire THR be thought of in the same way?

But this IS America and people can express any opinion they want, no matter how much I hate their speech.
And all have the right to ignore, disbelieve or disrespect the message whence they hate the manner in which it is delivered ... And, with every absurd statement made on THR, every use of the phrase "jack-booted thugs" in reference to law enforcement, we lose potential converts to our movement.

PinnedandRecessed stated
deeply resent a "bozo" generalizations about JBTs. I think such people have serious issues and are undermining the RKBA.

I realize it's mostly about a particular (absurd) anarchist political ideology (that will go unnamed) but I wish these people would a) sell their guns since they give us a bad name and b) keep their mouths shut.

It's this reactionary nonsense that gives the MSM and leftwingers ammo (pun intended) against us.
I heartily concur.
 
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