When is a "NO GUNS" sign invalid?

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FWIW, I refuse to do business with a company that prohibits CCW. Several years ago, the local Blockbusters put up signs prohibiting firearms. They didn't mean anything legally. However, the subsequent boycott got the signs removed in a matter of days.
 
Reno,NV

I've seen teeny tiny signs near some casino's, they are there stricly for insurance and are never enforced...
Originally Posted by rustymaggot
isnt it against the law to get caught anyway? what i mean is..... if someone sees your piece youve broken the rules of keeping it consealed havent you?
What does consealed mean???
I am unfamilliar with this term ;-)
 
3) "Ain't nobody goin' ta tell me whut ta do with mah guns!" Go on in and take the chance of facing the consequences.

And, of course, make us all look bad. (Akin to unintelligent troglodytes.)

Extremist pro-gun rhetoric is far, far worse -- in terms of effect -- then those that wish to disarm John Q. (who is dumb to begin with). By all means, walk like Wyatt Earp...

The entire basis of this thread's query makes it appear as if loopholes are being sought to bear arms into private businesses and residences. (Bah!)

You want to know where your rights end? "At the limit of my, or my business's, property."

Doesn't this apply in all cases?
 
I've seen teeny tiny signs near some casino's, they are there stricly for insurance and are never enforced...

I only know of one casino ever barring CCW's with legal signs and that was Binion's before they went under and got bought by Harrah's. It's more of a "Don't Ask Don't Tell" in casinos - as long as they don't know about it everything is ok.
 
Courts make the laws anyway...

Sad to say, Phantom Warrior,

These days, particularly in MN, the courts make the laws it seems.

Think about my Keepers and how the same rule is interpreted five different ways from Sunday depending on who you ask?

You asked what you could get legally drug into court in, but my limited experience the answer would be, "Whatever an owner can convince a DA, PO, or LEO to run you into court for."

PS. Shout out from B Town.
 
I've seen signs at stores that read "No guns" or something similar. Is that sign valid and legally binding?

not to repeat everyone else, but add to all other comments that all entrances need to have such a sign. if not all do, find the door that doesnt and use it.

i had a discussion a while back with a knowledgable insurance guru, and his take on the issue was that the sign builds a basis for denying a claim arising from someone shot on premises. the building owner can claim the position that they wished no one was armed with a gun while on premises.
the analagy was used of signs at amusement parks 'enter at your own risk'. well the amusement park has insurance, right? that is supposed to cover liability risks to patrons, right?

well nowhere in any commercial general liability insurance policy does it limit or exclude claims from injuries caused by firearms. the sign is not binding, and the building owner can only hope such a defense will work if they went to every extreme to ensure guns were not allowed on premises, such as with screening visitors with metal detectors or pat-downs.

i've made a few rash generalizations in the above paragraphs. do not take any of my words as absolute. laws regarding firearms, private property, and insurance differ from state to state, and my amateur interpretation of such laws cannot be viewed as gospel.
 
Depends on your state's laws. In Colorado, signs carry no weight, I am merely not complying with the wishes of the business. Thats why I carry concealed. They can ask someone to leave, then charge them with trespassing if they refuse to leave.


Plus if I see a Ghostbusters sign with revolver in the middle, I'll assume that they are not allowing revolvers, and that my concealed Glock is fine to have concealed on my person. :neener:
 
Why is it that so many people believe that State laws from their State are enforceable in someone else's State.

MINNESOTA's was written exactly as it was to make it so that except for prescribed locations, ( schools, court houses.) you were allowed to carry anywhere and if you missed some business's sign, and were then discovered to be carrying you had to refuse to leave before you not in compliance. NON compliance means a REFUSAL to leave after notification is required before you can be cited. And as stated the ticket is like a parking ticket, a $25 dollar fine and no consequence to your permit.

This applies to MINNESOTA, not to Ohio, Texas or any other state.

It is specifically written in such a way to allow business who do not want to post the sign do not have to and can still ask you to leave. Businesses can post a non conforming sign to make the blissninnies feel good, but it has no bearing on a permitted individual. It is written as well that the individual business has to post. The landlord can not post, only the tenant can. Meaning that we can walk into malls, office buildings, etc. and be completely legal. This also means that for a whole building to be posted, ALL the tenants have to post as well, I go to an Bank building that has a tax prepayer as a tenant, the rest of the bank building had to take down the signs because the tax guy did not post. This was demanded as we have what is called the "Skyway" system here connecting most of Downtown in both Twin Cities where in inclimate weather we can walk all over downtown without stepping outside. It was known that one prohibiting building in DT would effectively render the entire Skyway system a prohibited space. It also means that we can effectively IGNORE the sign and know that we must be orally notified personally and refuse to leave before we can be cited. This really is only a problem if say you are sitting down in a resturant to eat with freinds and then be notified by staff that your are not welcome any longer. It will be a hassle, nothing more.

We do not have a concealed clause in our law. There is no penalty for "printing'' or breaking concealment. It may be a tactical mistake but it is not a legal error.

The prior law was one of May Issue. It was steeped in a lot of myth and confusion. In some locales away from the Twin Cities, permits to purchase were hardly ever granted, instead carry permits were issued instead, the logic being if you could pass muster to own a pistol you passed muster to carry it. The previous law allowed for carry in schools and courthouses.
One thing we lost with the Shall issue law was the right to carry to schools and Courthouses.

We can enter a bar, liquor store, or a serving resturant without worry, We have to excede .04 BAC to be in violation. This means a glass of wine with dinner or A beer after work is ok, in MINNESOTA. So far, I am unaware of any violations resulting in revocations state wide over this provision. I am sure it has been violated but so far I know of none.

Minnesota Law used to require a 3 day waiting period, unless you are in possession of a valid Permit to Purchase OR a Permit to carry. The 3 day waiting period law has now been replaced by a permit to purchase system that has no limits on numbers nor any registration of any kind. It is a NICS check in advance so to speak. Permits to carry are good for 5 years and cost about a $100 depending on the county, permits to purchase are free and good for 1 year.

NOW this is some of the information to the best of my knowledge for MINNESOTA, you state law, being from a different state, will be different.
 
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Phantom, I cannot stress the amount of VALID information that I have learned from the boards at twincitiescarry.com. It is definitely an asset to those who carry, want to carry, or even just want to learn about guns. Generally handguns are discussed, but they are very tolerant & helpful. There are plenty of GOOD categories and the reading can be intense for a new person there. THR is a good board, too and I've picked up some good info here and there.
 
[sigh] Carrying ANYWHERE that it is deemed outside the box of legality by ANY authority is dumb as nails.

If I catch you in my home, or on my property, with a weapon that I FEEL THREATENS ME results that you will pay a "penalty."

(Business owners may feel the same.)

"Don't be a dumbass."

Pro-gun rhetoric -- "I'll do what I want!" -- is far, far more damaging then a few criminal acts occurring with firearms.

Folks who report "you cain't [sic] do nothing to me" are shameful.
 
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I would ask all the good folks who support RKBA to think before they advocate ways to find technicalities to bear arms in private places or establishments that don't want them. How can you claim individual and constitutional rights for yourself while denying other, equally important rights to others? I suspect that your feel just as strongly for your own property rights as you do about your gun rights. Yet, you would deny others the right to decide what activities go on in their own places of business just because you don't agree with that decision. You don't see the hypocrisy here? If you invited all your neighbors over to your house for a block party, and some of them decided to use the occasion to have a Hillary for Prez rally in your front yard, how would you react? If they said, "well, we're just exercising our constitutional right to free speech and political action," I'm sure you would say, "great, but not in my freaking yard. Get out."

Point made.

K
 
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I always thought it wasn't legal to carry in establishments were alcohol and/or gambling took place.
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In my home county in Alabama, and I suppose the permitt is the same in all counties of Alabama, it clearly states on the back that the permitt is null and void in "places that serve alcohol or if you are drinking are using any illegal drug."
 
You are again confusing private property with private property that is open to the public for buisness. It has ALREADY been addressed why that is a mistake. There are laws saying for what reasons you cannot ask someone to leave. Carrying should be one of them.

Gunsmith, it seems YOU are unfamiliar with the word CONCEALED. :neener:
 
Georgia's concealed carry statutes make no provisions for signs prohibiting concealed carry. The legislature has outlined in statute where concealed carry is prohibited.

Now don't take the following to indicate I wish to be the test case...I don't. I simply don't shop at the Augusta Mall. The owners of Augusta Mall tried to prohibit concealed carry not only in the mall but by cab drivers in the parking lot driving in their own cabs. Far as I know, the issue was never challenged in court. But I talked to three or four state representatives about the issue. The response of all of them was that the state legislature reserves for itself the power to regulate concealed carry in the state. If a business owner doesn't want members of the public carrying with state issued permits, that owner does have a remedy. He can close his doors to ALL of the public. The legislators' stance was that if an establishment was open to the general public, and was not an establishment barred from concealed carry by the legislature, then any member of the public with a permit could carry in that establishment without penalty.

Some Waffle House locations posts signs in their diners in Georgia. On the wall above the grills. You can't even read the signs unless you sit at the counter.
 
. There are laws saying for what reasons you cannot ask someone to leave. Carrying should be one of them.

"should" is one thing. Reality is another. If there aren't such laws in effect for a particular jurisdiction, then my position is totally valid. Sounds as though you are willing to use the power of government to limit business owners' rights while I suspect you would resent others using the power of government to restrict your gun rights.

K
 
Why not contact the Minnesota Attorney General? (Unless I passed over their thier posted answer?:confused:
 
"should" is one thing. Reality is another. If there aren't such laws in effect for a particular jurisdiction, then my position is totally valid. Sounds as though you are willing to use the power of government to limit business owners' rights while I suspect you would resent others using the power of government to restrict your gun rights.

K
I don't believe that public buisnesses should be able to tell someone for whatever reason they want that they can go. They don't have the right as a public buisness to bar people based on sex, race, etc. These are things that come from the 14th amendment. The 2nd should not be forgotten in the mix.
 
I would ask all the good folks who support RKBA to think before they advocate ways to find technicalities to bear arms in private places or establishments that don't want them.

"Well said."

Often, gun-toters are their own worst [political] enemy.
 
we need a stickey that says

"it depends on the state"

I always thought it wasn't legal to carry in establishments were alcohol and/or gambling took place.

maybe in your state, in mine it's all good! even if there is a sign it's only tresspass and you could be asked to leave.

this isn't a darn loophole, here in Reno it just seems as folks like to mind their own biz and if you want to play some slots and have a drink and ccw "it aint nobody's biz if you do" I carry everywhere there isn't a metal detector, it's a simple fact not an internet boast or a challenge or whatever...
Thats just life in my town, thats why I don't go and spend my money in NY and CA anymore.
 
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