Confiscations in Los Angeles County?

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XavierBreath

XavierBreath

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LA County Gun Task Force Serving Search Warrants
July 16, 2006


Officers from the Los Angeles County Gun Task Force in CA have begun serving search warrants on residents in that county who are suspected of holding un-registered "Assault Rifles" including 50 BMG target rifles.

If you or any of your friends have not complied with the provisions of AB-50 that require you to register any 50 BMG rifles you own, you may very well expect a knock on your door at any time.

This information was received from a former ATF agent in CA:

"I have a friend who had a search warrant executed by the LA gun task force at his apartment, which is located above a home, within LA city limits a few months back. This task force is headed up by ATF, with LAPD and LASO being the primary agencies participating. Pursuant to the warrant execution, one Springfield M1A with its' original flash hider attached and numerous .50 cal incendiary type bullets (Projectiles) were seized. My friend was not arrested at the time and led to believe the case might not even be prosecuted. The task force left his entire gun collection, which is extensive, with him at his apartment. A little more info here for you to consider. My friend has no criminal record of any kind, is a decorated Vietnam vet, is gainfully employed as a carpenter, and is law abiding.

A couple of weeks ago, the task force came back to his apartment and arrested my friend and charged him with five felonies. He was taken to jail where he remained for two days until his bail was set and met. He is charged with being in possession of an unregistered assault rifle, and in possession of destructive devices, and in possession of destructive devices within so many feet of a school. Five felonies under California law in total.

Being a retired ATF special agent myself, I contacted the case agent who happens to be a LAPD detective assigned to the task force. I asked him why such a chicken ##### case was being prosecuted. Why were they ruining my friend's life after his service to our country and the fact that he has no past criminal record. I asked him what happened to law enforcement using common sense and discretion in a case like this. The detective told me they didn't make the laws, but it was their job to enforce the law and that the DA has a no tolerance policy regarding firearms.

I tried to explain to him that the M1A rifle with its' original flash hider was legally sold to 1000's of people in CA before the assault rifle law was even enacted. Many of these original owners to this day do not know they are in violation by having the flash hider on their rifle. The detective didn't care. I explained that on at least two prior occasions I had contacted DOJ myself and had been informed the explosive bullets were legal in California as they are under ATF law, as long as they were not loaded into a case and able to fire. He said that was incorrect info and that under CA law the bullets alone are destructive devices and that each individual bullet could be charged separately."

During the past several months FCI has received several inquiries from people who are possibly California residents who have been asking what they should do because they hadn't registered their firearms before the required date. We have told everyone they need to contact an attorney to find out the best possible way to deal with this situation.

FCI recommends the same to everyone. A good law firm to contact would be:

Trutanich-Michel LLP
180 E. Ocean Blvd
Long Beach, CA 90802
(562) 216-4444
Also be aware that I spoke to Bill Ritchie at EDM Arms, Inc. recently and he had several customers who had purchased 50 BMG target rifles on a time payment program. The customers had not picked up their rifles before the expiration of the registration period and now all the firearms have to be turned in to the Dept of Justice in CA for destruction.
This is a very serious matter for owners as well as manufacturers. It appears that LA County Gun Task Force and possibly DOJ in CA are looking for an opportunity to make an example out of an otherwise Law Abiding citizen. Don't let it be you. Seek good legal advice before you get a knock on your door when you least expect it.

John Burtt, Chmn
FCI
Link
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This is most distressing. Can anyone confirm or deny these allegations? Any hard news?

It really begs the question..... If these gun owners did not register their 50 BMG rifles and "assault rifles", then how the heck does Los Angeles know who to serve a search warrant on?

It's enough to make one ponder a bit deeper........
 
Damned if I know. The 50s were originally sold as "ordinary rifles". How they're looking 'em up now...MAYBE they're looking at the bound books of dealers who go out of biz and turn the books over to BATFE. California isn't supposed to have records of "ordinary rifles".

Chuck Michel is quite credible on this stuff. I'll try and call him tomorrow.
 
sm--

When you buy a gun in california you fill out a Dealer Record of Sale (the lovely DROS) which adds $35 to each handgun you buy (together or separately) and $35 to all long-guns purchased the same time.

This data is sent to the California Department of Justice who have 10 days to look it over before you get to have your gun, rifle, shotgun, and handguns alike.

Bill Lokyer made a list and he's checking it twice...
 
Law Enforcement is known to pull crap like that. They'll lie and say you're not under arrest when they question you. Two weeks later they'll pay you a visit and say they have a felony warrant for your arrest. If you're under investigation for a crime that you didn't comit, pack up and get the heck out of the state as soon as you find out about the crime.

Morale of the story: Never believe a word a cop says.
 
Law Enforcement is known to pull crap like that. They'll lie and say you're not under arrest when they question you.
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If they tell you that you are not under arrest then you are not. The moment you are under arrest they must give you a Miranda warning. They are questioning you prior to actually arresting you to take advantage of the way the law is written. In either case, you still have the right to remain silent. If you give up that right, it's your fault not theirs.

Two weeks later they'll pay you a visit and say they have a felony warrant for your arrest.
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Only if they have gathered sufficient evidence to convince a judge or prosecutor that you have committed a felony. If you haven't committed a crime, no such evidence should exist.

If you're under investigation for a crime that you didn't comit, pack up and get the heck out of the state as soon as you find out about the crime.
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Depending on the circumstances, that could be flight to avoid prosecution which would make you a fugitive. I don't see how committing one crime to avoid another would help.

Morale of the story: Never believe a word a cop says.
Click to expand...
First off it is "moral" of the story, morale is a word that means something entirely different. Secondly, nothing that you have said in your post supports your concluding statement that all police officers are untrustworthy. If you intend to make such a derogatory blanket statement, you should at least provide evidence to support you theory.

Now, to the discussion of the original post.

What I am not clear on, due to a lack of knowledge of CA gun laws, is whether or not a crime was committed. If this is some grey area that BATFE is twisting to interpret their agenda, then I would agree with the malicious prosecution claims.

If however, the law is clear that you cannot do "X", and the person in question knowingly or unknowingly did "X", then I would find myself conflicted. The items outlined in the original post are of no real significance in the grand scheme of things, so the law as written is ridiculous. However, changing that law should be fought in the legislature. Not by disregarding it, and ultimately fighting it out in court.
 
I speak from experiance. They don't always read you your rights. You won't be arrested the first time they question you, but they will return with a warrant and will arrest the second time around. Before you ask, I'm not a felon or fugitive. All I did was comfirm what was said in XB's first post. I never said that every cop on the job was bad.

You know the saying don't you? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. They preyed on my trust once, but they won't do it again.
 
I speak from experiance. They don't always read you your rights. You won't be arrested the first time they question you, but they will return with a warrant and will arrest the second time around.
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Anything is possible. The point I am making is although they were ultimately wrong, they may have been acting in good faith. Someone they talked to may have pushed you in front of the bus to save themselves.

Before you ask, I'm not a felon or fugitive.
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Didn't think you were.

You know the saying don't you? Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. They preyed on my trust once, but they won't do it again.
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I think this is our common ground. We must be diligent in the protection of our rights, rather than depending on others to just respect them.
 
Depending on the circumstances, that could be flight to avoid prosecution which would make you a fugitive. I don't see how committing one crime to avoid another would help.
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The police are violating the spirit and the Letter of the United States Consitution.
They should be arrested and prosecuted under federal law.
The poster is only committing a crime under a law that is flat out illegal and unconstitutional. Once he leaves California for Nevada with his rifle he is no longer in violation of the law.

The law regarding the .50 is an expostfacto law as such it is clearly prohibited by the US constitution. The person bought the rifle in total complaince with the already existing unconstitutional law, then a new law is passed that makes them a felon retroactively, but hey they could have registered their legally owned and purchased smoke pole right? WRONG that law requiring the registration is illegal and unconstitutional as well and is an invitation to have that rifle confiscated at a later date, and they will be, its just a matter of time.

Best of all if the possessor of the SMOKE POLE is already a convicted felon, he can not be prosecuted for violating the registration law, because that would be a violation of his 5th ammendment rights of non self incrimmination, according to the 9th circus court of clowns.
 
The police are violating the spirit and the Letter of the United States Consitution.
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Well, remember that this did not happen in the United States.

California left the US and the protection of the Constitution many years ago and I am sad for all of the patriots that remained behind, under the flag of that repressive state.
 
Yup, If I still lived there they would be knocking on my door
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Careful brother. This is Maryland remember, and we could be only one vote away from the same thing. :uhoh:
 
crazed_ss wrote:
If you're not under arrest or anything, leaving the state with the rifle seems to be legal.. see the third option here.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/50bmg.htm
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Very poor advice. If the CA assault weapon or 50BMG registration period has closed (and both have!) - and the firearm in question has not been registered w/DOJ - it's plain and simple illegally possessed.

An illegally possessed gun is illegally transported, etc. You've just told the guy to create additional felonies. While simple possession of an illegal unreg'd AW/50BMG can be a misdemeanor ("wobbler") in 12280(b), illegal transportation or import or possession in an unauthorized place are all 12280(a) felonies.

In the case of WonderBoy with the illegal M1A, all he had to do was not have a flash hider and use a muzzle brake. (In fact, from other information, it appears that WonderBoy attached the flash hider to a legit CA M1A [one formerly w/muzzle brake] in the presence of another dude, the apparent informant: WonderBoy just failed the Big IQ test, just like another Californian who was busted for a 17" SxS shotgun and who might be exposed to both state _and_ federal charge.)

I think these laws are stupid, but most everyone sane in the CA gun world knows having a flash hider on a semiauto centerfire rifle makes it an AW in California. Those who don't are probably inactive in the CA gun world and gun politics - and are prob one of the zillion CA gun owners that don't vote or are what I call "duck hunters" who don't like evil black rifles and accidentally walked across CA AW laws with their precious M1A thinking they wouldn't be affected.

I really don't have a lot of sympathy for folks who don't/can't read and do stupid things in front of informants.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA
 
"Illegal Gun?"

It isn't an "illegal gun", it is an "Unconstitutional Law".

And it is being enforced by unconstitutional, bogus warrant.
 
Morale of the story: Never believe a word a cop says.
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I think this is a bit harsh. But in a situation where they are trying to pin something on you, it is in your best interest to believe nothing the other side says at all. And the cops are the other side in such a case.

GET A LAWYER!

Your lawyer is your only friend in such a situation.

Never talk to LE about anything you are doing or might be involved in that even remotely could be a criminal situation, regardless of whether you personally in fact committed any crime or not. Let your lawyer do the talking.
 
what arms are next?

This is pretty terrible. A law abiding citizen with a decent track record, and a war veteran, from what I can interpret here, has been outed by a ratfink? I truly think that the states and the feds keep a records of the arms and just won't admit it.

I fill out the paperwork for a firearm, which stays with the FFL. However, he has to call into the state/feds/ATF or whoever to verify all the information for a background check. My inkling is that the person on the other end of the line is inputting said data of my purchase into a database. I know they claim they can't do this and don't do this, but that's BS IMHO.

My FFL dealer stated he has a police officer friend who was asked to document all the firearms he possessed with his department. He registered his .22LR rifle and that was it. The chief then approached him about a week later with a list of the firearms that he did not list.....They have the info, don't kid yourselves fellas. Nothing can convince me otherwise. You can throw all the legalese at me that you want stating the contrary, but it is my firm belief that they do have a database somewhere. But I think they are very, very careful about how they use it because it is in violation of many laws of this very country. Sorry to rant, but I think this type of stuff is really, really bad. Our government has run out of criminals to go after, so now they are making more by simply drafting new laws.

I hope I never live in California. All Cali gunowners please move North to Oregon where they give out CCW's like candy.

jeepmor
 
I asked him why such a chicken ##### case was being prosecuted. Why were they ruining my friend's life after his service to our country and the fact that he has no past criminal record.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a test case to see what the response will be. If gun-owners
in CA feel strongly about this, they need to pass the hat around for a
collection and start attending the hearings.
 
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