the punk-kid doesn't know to show respect to anyone...he sees an opportunity to try to humiliate someone in front of others while hiding in a crowd and does it...there are a lot dumb kids around that probably will grow up as a detriment to America...I wonder what secret acts and morals this kid has that could be paraded in public if known....
An Iraq War vet speaks at a D.C High school.....Mind blowing response
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Ezekiel
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Really, that's asinine.
He has to stand, perhaps even walk to a mic, in a room full of people being singled out, in an auditorium or classroom in Washington DC, and you think he is hiding?
And frankly, any "humiliation" to be found with our actions is contained within their existence, not due to anyone pointing out what we've done.
(sigh) You see, those aren't the folks that invaded Iraq. :banghead:
BigFatKen
Member
A better quote from a statesman might have been the one made to PM De Gaul in ~1955. Must we remove ALL of the American troops? OR can the ones buried here in the last two wars to free your Country stay?
These spoiled kids are bombarded night and day by the liberal media and have parents that don't care enough about them to teach them right and wrong-its really too bad.
The soldier should have set him strait on the facts rather than than use emotional quotes to stifle the disrespect. These misinformed kids are the inheritors of our country and our future-by the time they grow up it might be too late to learn the realities of their delusional beliefs.
The soldier should have set him strait on the facts rather than than use emotional quotes to stifle the disrespect. These misinformed kids are the inheritors of our country and our future-by the time they grow up it might be too late to learn the realities of their delusional beliefs.
Gordon Fink
Member
Since no one else has said it. How do we know the veteran’s description of the question is accurate? Could he possibly have misheard or misrepresented an otherwise valid question that simply struck him the wrong way?
~G. Fink
~G. Fink
Ezekiel
Member
Anything is possible, but I consider the source "most reliable."
Ezekiel
Member
The fact is that we invaded a sovereign nation and killed a lot of folks.
What's to dispute?
I mean, you could launch a littany of personally perceived justifications offered by our governemnt, but a great many of those have been found to be exaggerated, misleading or just plain false.
Gordon Fink
Member
I doubt the kid said “innocent militants,” but he may well have said “innocent Iraqis,” as in collateral casualties. Just a thought.
~G. Fink
~G. Fink
Here goes.
Weapons of mass desrtuction - either hidden, moved to Syria, Jordan, etc. or sold to UN's Annan in another cash for oil scandal.
Why we are fighting in Iraq - cause we couldn't get the lazy ass terroists to come to Afganistan. And YES it is better to fight them NOW and over there than later over here. And whats wrong with a permanent base in Iraq? We train in the desert in America lets train in their desert too.
How many times do we let the terrorists strike before we strike back? (there were many attacks before 9/11 - this action was due)
Once we strike back do we quit or give up because it isn't a short fight? What about fighting to win? I believe many of the people who criticize just want to criticize - if we would have left they would have found something else to criticize.
The terrorists have not given up and would not have given up if we took no action after 9/11 - inaction would have made them think the US was weak willed and they would have attacked us again - this action has bloodied their nose we should stay until they have no more blood to bleed.
(some people sound like California liberals - rant over)
Weapons of mass desrtuction - either hidden, moved to Syria, Jordan, etc. or sold to UN's Annan in another cash for oil scandal.
Why we are fighting in Iraq - cause we couldn't get the lazy ass terroists to come to Afganistan. And YES it is better to fight them NOW and over there than later over here. And whats wrong with a permanent base in Iraq? We train in the desert in America lets train in their desert too.
How many times do we let the terrorists strike before we strike back? (there were many attacks before 9/11 - this action was due)
Once we strike back do we quit or give up because it isn't a short fight? What about fighting to win? I believe many of the people who criticize just want to criticize - if we would have left they would have found something else to criticize.
The terrorists have not given up and would not have given up if we took no action after 9/11 - inaction would have made them think the US was weak willed and they would have attacked us again - this action has bloodied their nose we should stay until they have no more blood to bleed.
(some people sound like California liberals - rant over)
echo5tango
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how about:Clean97GTI said:
Of the Unbelievers: Sura 4:89 “seize them and slay them wherever you find them: and in any case take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”
9.123 “O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you”
Sura 2:187-189 “And kill them wherever ye shall find them, and eject them from whatever place they have ejected you; for civil discord is worse than carnage: yet attack them not at the sacred Mosque, unless they attack you therein; but if they attack you, slay them. Such the reward of the infidels...Fight therefore against them until there be no more civil discord, and the only worship be that of God: but if they desist, then let there be no hostility, save against the wicked.”
2:216 “Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But God knoweth, and ye know not. 217 They ask thee concerning fighting in the Prohibited Month. Say: “Fighting therein is a grave (offense); but graver is it in the sight of God to prevent access to the path of God, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque, and drive out its members. Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the Hereafter; they will be Companions of the Fire and will abide therein.”
Sura 9:29-33 “Make war upon such of those to whom the Scriptures have been given as believe not in God, or in the last day, and who forbid not that which God and His Apostle have forbidden, and who profess not the profession of the truth, until they pay tribute out of hand, and they be humbled.”
Sura 9:123 “Believers! wage war against such of the infidels as are your neighbours, and let them find you rigorous: and know that God is with those who fear him.”
need i go on? there are countless muslim clerics and scholars who admit the quran is a very violent document, and there are those who say muhammed was a child molesting savage, but that's another topic all together
Ivy Mike
Member
well vynx, two sets of inspectors have found nothing. The UN said the weapons weren't there and later US inspectors said they weren't there. The weapons we went after just weren't there. Just because you suspect it, doesn't make it true.
You keep talking about needing to fight them over there, but ignore the distinct possibility that its our presence there that could be creating more problems.
Perhaps we need to finish rebuilding Iraq and just leave before we bury ourselves even further.
You keep talking about needing to fight them over there, but ignore the distinct possibility that its our presence there that could be creating more problems.
Perhaps we need to finish rebuilding Iraq and just leave before we bury ourselves even further.
shootinstudent
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echo5tango,
Uh, just a note about your "list"...here's surah 2:187-189: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/rel/islam/Quran/2-cow.html#185
Your list is cribbed from an anti-Islamic website, and it didn't even bother to list the verses properly. Seriously, how can you take a source seriously when it doesn't even cite the book it's criticizing correctly???
Uh, just a note about your "list"...here's surah 2:187-189: http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/rel/islam/Quran/2-cow.html#185
Your list is cribbed from an anti-Islamic website, and it didn't even bother to list the verses properly. Seriously, how can you take a source seriously when it doesn't even cite the book it's criticizing correctly???
echo5tango
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Just like our presence "incited" terrorists to attach our embassy in Syria right?? Do you honestly believe the drivel you're spouting? Common sense and rational thought should guide you, but it doesn't appear as those are two attributes you possess...Clean97GTI said:
echo5tango
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if that's the case, i sincerely apologize. however, i don't believe there's too much of a difference ... take out that citation and you still have a slew of othersshootinstudent said:
it appears as though there are differences in the translation, much like there are differences in the translation of the bible ...
shootinstudent
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echo5tango,
PM Sent.
Avoiding....Quran debates...in public
PM Sent.
Avoiding....Quran debates...in public
Ivy Mike
Member
e5t,
if you're going to quote the Quran, I'd suggest you quote the entire verse to give people an idea of what it says.
4:89 Actually says
They wish that you disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you become equal. Do not consider them friends, unless they mobilize along with you in the cause of GOD. If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may kill them when you encounter them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies.
basically, do not ally with someone unless they believe as you do. Should they betray you, then you've got the right to fight them and kill them IN WAR.
2:216-217 isn't as much about fighting as it is about preserving your faith an standing firm in what you believe.
You really need to look at the context of what you're quoting.
if you're going to quote the Quran, I'd suggest you quote the entire verse to give people an idea of what it says.
4:89 Actually says
They wish that you disbelieve as they have disbelieved, then you become equal. Do not consider them friends, unless they mobilize along with you in the cause of GOD. If they turn against you, you shall fight them, and you may kill them when you encounter them in war. You shall not accept them as friends, or allies.
basically, do not ally with someone unless they believe as you do. Should they betray you, then you've got the right to fight them and kill them IN WAR.
2:216-217 isn't as much about fighting as it is about preserving your faith an standing firm in what you believe.
You really need to look at the context of what you're quoting.
Shweboner
Member
Okay, if you pay attention I said on AMERICAN SOIL... because I was talking about what BS the whole fight them there or fight them here crap is.
So lets see... we have WTC 1 in 1993 and WTC 2 in 2001 that is two attacks on US soil in 8 years. Like I said, not that impressive. Hell they were even at the same location... hardly goes to support your theories. 2 in 8 years but was WTC 1 the first time they did it??? So that makes it 2 in how long?
Keep looking, Im sure it will keep you up all night....
no, wait... looks like you have some back up .... lets see what they have to add........................
Again... Im talking about AMERICAN soil. Therefore your list is irrelevant...
Oh wait, sorry I forgot the Pentagon.... But it was the same day not too far from the others so they get lumped together in my book.... whoop-dee-doo so you can say that the US has only been hit 3 times in how long?
Give me a break... You suckers who buy this crap are just as gullable as these anti-gun boneheads that think that the world would be safer if only the police had guns... Whatever makes you feel better.
Ivy Mike
Member
echo5tango said:
You missed what I was saying. My comments were directed at a comment that suggested we establish a base in a region that already dislikes us.
While we can do such a thing, it stands to reason that rubbing salt in such a wound may very well compound our problems.
I'm not suggesting we just leave and isolate ourselves, simply that we should pick our battles and understand that our actions may have further reaching consequences...some of which are self-defeating.
We don't want to shoot ourselves in the foot on this one and a course of action that throws our weight around, could do just that.
Its that whole context thing again.
echo5tango
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This is what I wrote to shootinstudent, I only post it here because it's relevant:Clean97GTI said:
I'll be the first to admit I know very little about the Quran, and therefore, it's quite easy for me to take something out of context. However, it is those exact same things I take out of context that are being used to disintegrate the Muslim youth into a robotic terrorist
WiLLtallica
member
*-*-*
Well exactly how are we creating more terrorists when they're destroying civilization? We're not, and like bush said this war needs to be fought until the end (AT LEAST THIS TIME FOR ONCE).
Going back to the first post, it kills me how that kid said innocent militants. I say send him to Iraq, and let these as he put it innocent militants start slicing into his neck with the small sword like knives they use while pushing his face into the dirt. I can't believe no one beat the hell out of that kid for that soldier. At least blind sided him right in his ear (ouch).
Well exactly how are we creating more terrorists when they're destroying civilization? We're not, and like bush said this war needs to be fought until the end (AT LEAST THIS TIME FOR ONCE).
Going back to the first post, it kills me how that kid said innocent militants. I say send him to Iraq, and let these as he put it innocent militants start slicing into his neck with the small sword like knives they use while pushing his face into the dirt. I can't believe no one beat the hell out of that kid for that soldier. At least blind sided him right in his ear (ouch).
echo5tango
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1.
2. (my emphasis)
Where's the head-scratch emoticon thing when I need it?? What in God's/Allah's/Odin's name are you saying then???
Clean97GTI said:
echo5tango said:
2. (my emphasis)
Clean97GTI said:
Where's the head-scratch emoticon thing when I need it?? What in God's/Allah's/Odin's name are you saying then???
Ivy Mike
Member
I'm simply saying we've gotten ourselves into a situation and that we have an obligation to rebuild and secure now that we've blown it all to hell.
We should finish that job and leave Iraq. We don't need to isolate ourselves, but we don't need to have a long term occupation either. Only the Iraqis can maintain long term peace in their country and the longer we try to do it is a greater chance for failure and the creation of new terrorists.
I thought I'd made that clear the last few times I posted it.
We should finish that job and leave Iraq. We don't need to isolate ourselves, but we don't need to have a long term occupation either. Only the Iraqis can maintain long term peace in their country and the longer we try to do it is a greater chance for failure and the creation of new terrorists.
I thought I'd made that clear the last few times I posted it.
cbsbyte
Member
The kid is right on target with his comment about the war. I applude him for standing up and saying what is rightm, even to a Veteran that does not want to hear it. People have to realize that most Americans, unlike pervious generations, no longer take the Governments or a soliders word as truth. If more people including the Dems had the balls to stand up to the Republicans and the White House, and say what is right then we would be out of Iraq and Afganistan very quickly. Hopefully once the Dems take back Congress they will fight the President on everything, and create a general unworkable government.
thefitzvh
Member
I gotta speak up here...
I'm against the war... but.
How is
not an attack on the soldier himself?
It could have easily been reworded to express the student's disdain for the war without being hostile.
In addition, I can tell you from experience that while this war was started under dubious pretenses, and mismanaged horribly... the iraqi militants are ANYTHING but "innocent"
They're murderous thugs.
Does that make us being here right? No. But to attack a soldier for killing "innocent" insurgants is just sick.
I'm against the war... but.
How is
not an attack on the soldier himself?
It could have easily been reworded to express the student's disdain for the war without being hostile.
In addition, I can tell you from experience that while this war was started under dubious pretenses, and mismanaged horribly... the iraqi militants are ANYTHING but "innocent"
They're murderous thugs.
Does that make us being here right? No. But to attack a soldier for killing "innocent" insurgants is just sick.
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