Saiga-12 Questions

The questions I have are, is it reliable?

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Mine has been very reliable. It had a couple of hiccups early on when I ran 7/8 oz. birdshot on the the "magnum load" gas setting, but now it eats them hungrilly and with little recoil.

If I want to shoot both shot and slugs, which one do I get or do I have to get 2? What's the con of getting a smooth bore and shooting slugs with it?

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I can't speak for accuracy, but the main issue I've heard seems to be running slugs with a full choke, assuming the gun has one. I'll leave it to the shotgun experts to clarify whether that's really something to worry aout.

Also, is there anything like the Saiga-12 that's an alternative I should look at?

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A Remington 870 may serve you better in the field and in the home. Longer sight radius for clays/birds, and the option of a magazine extension to match or exceed the capacity of the Saiga, which has a standard capacity of five (with eight rounders being rare as hen's teeth). Moreoever, the 870's tube magazine can be "topped off" in the very unlikely event that should ever be necessary.

Bottom line, the Saiga is rugged, soft-recoiling and a hell of a lot of fun. There are lots of other shotguns that will do the same job, however.

It's a good gun, I have one that I converted to the pistol grip/folding stock configuration... but you can't leave a loaded magazine in it for home defense. The top round will deform, and after firing the first round that top round will not chamber.

With the adjustable gas setting you can put pretty much any kind of 12ga load through it reliably (from weak 7/8 birdshot loads to magnum slugs). I'm also amazed how little the thing recoils ... even with the folding stock on mine its perfectly comfortable to shoot slugs with.

For hunting you'll need to check your local hunting laws (so you might have to hunt down one of the elusive 2 or 3 round magazines). I imagine most states if the game warden saw you out in the field with an 8 rounder hanging off your Saiga he'd write you up.

I've shot a little clays with mine and found it to be decently accurate (and mine's an 18" Tromix conversion so it has a door breeching brake, pistol grip, etc). Mine looks like this only with this brake.

If you're only interested in hunting and not 3-Gun competition and/or social work its probably not the best choice (there's several semi auto shotties that would serve you better ... the Winchester Super X2's are a good example).

But for a fun shotgun that you could use for the occasional hunting, clays, and other fun stuff I recommend one (I also recommend paying the extra dough and getting one reworked by Tromix ... talk to the guys at Fuzzy Bunny about one).

For hunting, I took a piece of wood and shaved it down until it fit easily inside the spring, and cut it so that the 5 rounder only takes 2. A lot cheaper than trying to find a silly 2 round magazine!

Well there you go ... if a wooden plug is good enough for a standard tube magazine it should be plenty for a box mag

Does anyone make rifled barrels for a Saiga-12?

I can see making a pretty decent brush-busting, fast-pointing, short-to-medium-range deer gun out of one of those puppies. Would make for an interesting project.

The only one I've fired kicked like a mule.

They're a novelty, more than anything else. I wouldn't hunt with one.

Buddy of mine has one, and loves it. Recoil is fairly tame by shotgun standards. He keeps it for a house gun.

The only one I've fired kicked like a mule.

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Compared to an AR or AK or compared to another 12ga?

I'm sure whatever kind of stock he has on it would make a difference (would hate to shoot one with a Bulgarian wire folding stock OUCH!).

I agree they aren't the best hunting shotties, but hardly a "novelty" ... I would expect they would make a wonderful 3-Gun or social work shotgun.

Diggler, where did you get a pistol grip and folding stock for your Saiga? In fact, where did you even get your Saiga from?
I've only seen Atlantic Firearms and the Saiga-12 manufacturer with Saigas for sale, and neither have pistolgrips or foldings stocks for sale, and they only sell the hunting versions.

Back on topic: the only thing that is similar to a Saiga (detachable magazine fed semiautomatic shotgun) would be the USAS-12, which is unfortunately a destructive device.

I've put a few rounds through both the 20 ga and 12 ga versions. Not enough to really put them through their paces, but enough to get familiar with the function and form an overall impression.

Overall I think they're an excellent shotgun. I found that even with slugs the recoil on the 12 ga Saiga was surprisingly manageable.

I bought mine before they stopped importing them a while back for $225, I think. I knew the price would go up so I bought one before they dried up.

I bought a US trigger group, a TAPCO SAW grip, and a regular Romanian folder. I used the dremel, got it apart, moved a few things around, and re-riveted it, and she was done.

I got some help from this thread:

Converting a Saiga-12

Buying a factory pistol grip setup in the S12 is VERY expensive. I bought and converted mine after the AWB went away, but you still have to deal with 922, which means you also have to concern yourself with the US parts count, so you at least have to use a US pistol grip and a new trigger group.

Your only options, unless you can find someone who will sell theirs, are to buy a stock S12 and send it to someone like Tromix, or to do it yourself.

plain S12 (with "hunting style" stock) ~$400
factory pistol gripped S12 (if you can even find one) ~$1200
Tromix converted S12 ~$700

Components to convert are pretty cheap, but for $100-$200 more you can be in the Tromix (and Tony does real good work).

There's more to the conversion than unbolting old parts and bolting on new parts (trigger components need to be moved). Also there's the whole US parts count thing.

Here's instructions on the conversion proccess http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=2042

That's true, if you're not a do it yourself type, you would probably be better off sending it to Tony... and the resale value would be higher too, I would imagine.

Some of the reason I did it myself is because I have several AK parts kits sitting around to build and it was a good way to get my feet wet without starting from scratch.

I thought that AK grips and stocks worked with Saigas?
If not then you can always get them machined, it's cheap and uses US made parts. Just need to find a decent machinist.

They do work with Saigas, but you have to move the trigger group forward and out of the way, and you have to cut out the hole for the pistol grip yourself.

Look at a stock S12 and see how far back the trigger sits on the gun compared to a normal AK.

www.fbmginc.com (THR member Correia's store) has:

12ga Saigas for $405
Tromix-converted 12ga Saiga for $755

I'm telling you dude, if you want something to plink w/ while your Savage barrel is cooling off, go Marlin 60 for cheap plinking, or a Rack Grade M1 Garand ($350) for serious shooting.

You'll never lose money buying a CMP M1 Garand...

Come to SAXET next weekend, check out everything there, and see if the Garand calls out to you. The Saiga is cool, but it costs even more, and the 12ga one might not be so useful on the 100yd line, and far less so on the 200yd line.

-MV

Hmm... Correia's site now lists them for $780. Is the $755 a THR discount?

@ Roz: you're looking at the folding stocks:

Tromix 12ga, 19" bbl & fixed stock

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Quatin-

You really need to take the time to contact Corriea. His personal siaga-12 is pushing 6500 rounds now with no problems. He also uses it in 3-gun matches, where he usually places in the top 3 at state level competitions. He even wrote up a review article on it for S.W.A.T. magazine a while back.

As far as conversions? Again-contact Corriea. Siaga 12s are almost like an ar-15, as in whatever you want on it, he can get done. WAY too many options for me to just start posting.