What if a BG doesn't believe you have no money?

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Thinking a BG just wants your money is like saying a rapist just wants sex.

I have never been asked for money by badguys. Is this like some sort of formal business deal? He threatens your life, you give him money, then walk away like nothing ever happened?

I've been confronted several times but they never wanted money. Only interest they had was in harming me. I tried offering money to be left alone once and never again. It endangered me worse. It appears to insult them for some reason and they definately see it as an admission of weakness. Nothing predators like more than a weak target.

Focusing on money is a distraction you don't need when you are supposed to be preserving your safety. My suggestion is to eliminate that as part of the equation right now.
 
this happened to me once.....I asked him if he had change for a .45 as I pulled my cocked and locked 1911. He simply stated "uhhh nah." and ran away:what:
 
Why are you standing there talking to the guy about your pocket lint?

You should immediately and decisively explode into action, and your first action should be to get yourself OFF the line of attack, and gain some distance, fully prepared to block, deflect or entangle the blade with your support hand if need be.

Your second decisive action should be to get your sidearm into play, that's why it's there.

If you're pocket carrying, thunderwear carrying, or using some other method of deep concealment that is inherently slower than a strong side draw, you've got to accustom yourself to the notion that presentation of your sidearm IS slower, and therefore likely to be move #2.

And even IF you've got a speedier rig, ignoring the attacker's agenda and establishing your own by attaining a better position is STILL a solid play.
 
Not exactly the same as the scenario presented by the originator of this thread, but here is a story that proves the danger of this type of situation.

Man shot in holdup attempt

---------------------------------------

By AL WHELESS, Daily Dispatch Writer

James Glover told investigators he was hit by a single shotgun blast on Charles Street early Monday morning after informing two robbers wearing scream masks that he had no money.

The victim was taken to Maria Parham Medical Center for treatment of wounds in his arm and side. Glover was listed in stable condition Monday afternoon.

The holdup man who wasn't armed told his accomplice with the weapon to shoot Glover, according to a statement the victim gave to police.

Glover said the robbers approached him about 2 a.m. when he left the residence of Latisha Alston at 508 A Charles St. and started to enter his vehicle, which was parked in the driveway.

The men ran away after the shooting occurred, Glover said, and he returned to the apartment.

http://hendersondispatch.com/articles/2006/10/11/news/law_enforcement_blotter/law01.txt
 
History Prof said:
most knife injuries are relatively minor
I had a nephew once. He would disagree with that assertion.
DRMMR02 said:
Well he did say "most" not "all"
True. And also true that even if my nephew had been legally packing, he would still be dead today. He was stabbed in the back by a coward. It kinda bugged me, though that the OP of that first quote kinda made it seem that folks with CCWs shouldn't use deadly force against a knife wielding thug. If *someone else* near my nephew had been legally packing, then my nephew might still be alive. I know, it is all hypothetical.......:(
 
spankaveli said:
Geronimo45 said:
#include <.38 Revolver>
#include <CCW Permit>
#include <Common Sense>

int main ( )
{
if (BG asks for money)
{
Draw .38 Revolver;
Aim .38 Revolver;
while (BG breathes = true)
{Fire;}
}
return 0;
}
It'd take a geek to find humor in this.
I laughed.

it'd take a geek to re-write it to proper syntax ;)


#include <.38 Revolver.h>
#include <CCW Permit.h>
#include <Common Sense.h>

int main (struct badGuyWithKnife)
{
if (badGuyWithKnife.hasGun == TRUE)
{
38Revolver.Draw(holster);
38Revolver.Aim(badGuyWithKnife);
while (badGuyWithKnife.breathes == TRUE)
{38Revolver.Fire();}
}
return 0;
}
 
Pull the pocket gun and shoot him in the head untill your empty or he falls down. :neener: He should have listened no money! :evil:
 
Ask if they take credit. Will plastic do? How about lay-away?

I guess you're in trouble. But, better trouble than these guys on the way to Aintree; they offered money, but it wasn't what they were after:


Ed: We don't know what you're doin' and we don't care. That's none of our business.
Mountain Man: That's right. It's none of your god-damned business, right.
Ed: We got quite a long journey ahead of us, gentlemen.
Toothless Man: Hold it. You ain't goin' no damn wheres.
Ed: This is ridiculous.
Toothless Man: Hold it, or I'll blow your guts out all over these woods.
Ed: Gentlemen, we can talk this thing over. What is it you require of us?
Well, we require that you get your goddamn @ss up in them woods.
Ed: All right, now, look.
Mountain Man: Right now! You get up there now.
Ed: Okay, all right.
Mountain Man: Faster, boy.
Mountain Man: Move your @ss
Ed: Easy with the weapon!
Mountain Man: You shut up.

Ed: Is this a matter of money?

Mountain Man: If we want your money, we'll take it.


Hope it wasn't too off color humor for the board. Its late, and I felt like posting a laugh.
 

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I pocket carry in my right front pocket. BUG Kel tec P3AT.
1911 on right side around 4 o'clock.

A felony in Georgia using force OR the threat of force is legally defined as a forcible felony. You are allowed to use lethal force to stop a forcible felony in Georgia by specific statute.

So my response would be to extend my left hand to the robber and plead,"Sure, man, I've got money. Let me get my wallet." As I draw my 1911. COM and go for slide lock.

I've had the experience of avoiding trouble and letting a piece of scum live and then seeing what happened to a friend of mine a few months later. That won't happen again if I see my way clear to shooting both from a legal standpoint and from a defensive standpoint.

If I have legal justification to shoot at a mugger and have at least as good a chance of shooting as I do at running then I'm shooting.

Can't run well anyway due to left sided weakness.
 
Thinking a BG just wants your money is like saying a rapist just wants sex.

Brilliant! I'll have to remember that one.

And that is an excellent point. If it were just about money, the guy would be working at McDonald's or something. Robbing people is more about the "power" than the material gain.
 
Yes, I did say, "MOST" for a reason.

Understand, that you are standing in a dirty alley, with a dude with a knife threatening you. This does not apply to a stab in the back without warning (Which was most likely a deep penetrating wound that severed a blood supply or an organ, in which case fatality is a high probability). In most cases the BG does not have a Kershaw, or Benchtop, or Spyderco, or even a Case. He's got some POS cheap made-in-pakistan steak knife he stole from a Denny's or shoplifted from Wal*Mart. Don't get me wrong: You can get just as dead from a cheap POS knife as you can from a KA-BAR. The times I have had knife-showing BG's toe to toe with me one was a POS steak knife the other was a Flea Market bowie knife. Both ended without a shot fired and no money was lost. I hav ealso been threatened with bottles, a chain, random pieces of metal or pipe, and a couple times with tire irons.
(FREE TIP: When you start working graveyard for a wrecker company you get all the great calls. Be in the habit of knowing your surroundings very carefully)

I'm talking in this case about face-to-face with an arm's length between you. You have a free hand for a reason, use it to gain space to draw and fire. Defensive wounds to your arms will bleed a lot but usually heal well. Your 3-6 holes in BG's chest will usually NOT heal well. As I have preached before, surviving these types of encounters comes down to one thing: Seizing and maintaining situational dominance. You must dominate the situation, if you show weakness or hesitation you will most likely trigger the attack from the BG. Most BG's are used to targets who are afraid, cringing, nonviolent, and never fight back. A confidant, dominant, calm and assertive target who does not comply, takes an aggressive/defensive stance and draws a weapon with skill and knowledge in every motion WILL surprise them in most cases, thus ending the assault. Don't pull the hollywood badass crap, spouting some line you heard from some shoot-em-up movie. Present your weapon and your determination to use it simultaneously and be prepared to instantly use the weapon in your defense. Use the same sort of tactical commands you would use if surprised by an aggressive animal, like a stray Rottweiler or black bear ("GET BACK. DROP THE KNIFE. TURN AROUND.") Be noisy, aggressive, and insistant. Know the exits and go that way, keeping your eyes on the BG, don't get within touching range. Be aware of your six, BG might have buddies sneaking up on you.
If blocked in and BG with knife won't let you out, that is threat of death or serious bodily injury to you AFAIK. If BG continues to be aggressive in the face of an armed target use whatever force is necessary to end the threat.

Oh yeah, and PRACTICE with your CCW. Practice often. 100 rds per month is the bare minimum and I personally do at least 5 times that.
Practice with multiple targets at or near to 20' away, all the way to 6' away if your range allows it.

It's been my experience that there are types of BG's in this scenario: Bullys, Real Criminals and Predators.

Bullys are the guys who beat the littler kids up in school and took their lunch money. As adults they have realized that people would still rather give up their valuables in the face of a threat than risking any violence. Most of these guys talk tough, show a knife, act badass, and run like little b*tches when you draw on them. They have discovered that it is easy to take when people will quickly give. They seek easy targets of opportunity and can be avoided by staying alert. They will also go from runaway crybaby to stab you in the back because their pride has been hurt so stay alert.

Real Criminals are guys who have made a conscious decision to rob and steal. They are "Career" guys. They are making a conscious investment of time to attain a return. They will use their weapon to gain their goal. They will kill if necessary but it is not their usual preferred ending since that means a murder charge if caught. Divert their attention and get the drop on them and they will leave the situation, because they know there are easier sheep to find. Never underestimate them because as soon as you think it's over and relax they try again. Often these guys get in real close and go for the "shock and awe" tactic, like sticking the knife right against your throat. A lot of crackheads start off as bullys and end up real criminals.

Predators are the guys who like to dominate other people. Robbing is just a side benefit, they enjoy forcing others to submit. These guys will kill or wound for the hell of it. Since they are armed and you aren't you are just prey. They are likely to take your money or valuables and still knife you anyway. Odds are if you give in they will think you even weaker and thus be more likely to attack you. Odds are you are going to be fighting for your life anyway, might as well get that gun out and save your life now. A lot of predator types will be meth or coke users and that makes reasoning or dominating the situation unstable. These guys will probably just attack anyway.
 
Hello good people. I have been reading a lot of the topics in this forum for quite a while and I find that you guys are really good about giving knowledgable advice to members of this forum. Anyway, I just want to share something with you all. First, I agree 100% with evan price, about a month ago i was confronted by a guy who asked if I had some change. I'm a pretty nice guy and I try to help people who are down on their luck(my wife hates that). As I reached to get the $5 I was going to give to him, he whips out this BIG ASS knife and says "you can just give me all your money". I immediately took a step back and told him to stay back. (BTW, I don't have a CCW, I'm still in the process now). He made a move and swiped across my body cutting my shirt and as he brought it back to swipe again I caught his wrist with my left hand(my forearm was cut) and broke his jaw with my free hand. I proceeded to kick his ass until I was interrupted by a LEO. Witnesses gave an account of the incident and the guy was arrested. The point is, like evan stated, most BG's plan to hurt you anyway even if you give them what they want. I lost a friend in a car jacking where he just gave the car up because "you can replace a car,you can't replace your life", and they shot him anyway. Defend yourselves people, if you have the means to protect yourselves, by all means do it.
 
When it's a choice

Choose life, don't get backed into that ugly corner and worry too much about legality. 12 jurors or 6 pallbearers is the only choice you should be making in this incident.

People who use knives or guns for holdups should consider the consequences of their actions. If you bring out a gun or knife trying to get my wallet, you'll be distracted by the wallet being tossed to you, allowing me time to draw. I pack one in the pipe just in case my other hand is busy taking a swipe from a knife or holding back a physical attack.

Cold and calculating, maybe, but survival is for the fittest. The fittest don't need guns to make a living, but we may need them to keep on living.

jeepmor
 
I would think that someone threatening your safety w/ a knife is enough of a threat to reply w/ your firearm.
 
Um...hello? If you have a BG that's made it into your space with a knife, you don't have time to issue commands. Let's get this straight:

The majority of us are NOT law enforcement. We DO NOT have a responsibility to "control" a criminal, just to DEFEND OURSELVES. Give your verbal commands all you want, but consider carefully, and please don't advise others of such foolishness.

Pull and shoot. Talking takes time, friend, and you're facing a deadly threat inside your "bubble".

When I regularly carried pocket pistols, I'd usually practice firing half the mag center mass, then putting two in "the box" (CNS). At close range, with .380 and smaller while facing edged threat, you don't have time to play.

J
 
depending on how far away from you he is, i have 2 answers:
1) if he is far enough where he cannot reach you with the knife, keep stepping back until you can draw and point, then cap him down anyways. he pulled a weapon on you, and you have the right to kill him.
2) if he IS in range of stabbing you and you can get hurt, toss your wallet and make him bend down or look away to pick it up. in this case, you will most likely have time to do so in #1 when he looks away. some people would say to walk or run away at that moment, but if HE decides to stay, shoot him down anyways. if he decides to run after you give him your wallet, well...your going to be one pissed off robbery victim. by all means though, dont chase him down, unless you can pin him and detain him until LEO arrives.
 
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