Loading the Tube-Fed Shotgun...

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Chris Rhines

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No, this isn't a thread on handloading. :D

The one big handicap of the shotgun as a weapon system is limited capacity. Tube-fed shotguns exacerbate this handicap by forcing the operator to load one shell at a time. Given that, it's probably a good idea for anyone who has a fighting shotgun to put some time in learning to load it. I'm interested in learning about the different loading techniques that people use - strong-hand, weak-hand, sidesaddle, belt carrier, dump pouch. How do you load your shotgun, and why? What are the advantages and disadvantages of your chosen technique?

Request lines are now open!

- Chris
 
Personally, I load from a side saddle on the left side of the receiver.
Do you load with your strong hand or your weak hand? When I'm down to my sidesaddle, I use my weak hand to grab shells off the sidesaddle and stuff them in the loading port, while my strong hand maintains a firing grip on the shotgun.

- Chris
 
Here is where being left handed has an advantage. My 870 has a side saddle on the left side and I can load from the side saddle into the magazine with my weak hand while keeping the gun at the ready with my left (strong) hand.

It is also easier to load a shell directly into the chamber from the ejection port with my weak (right) hand.

The best thing you can do to speed up your reloading is to practice with and EMPTY shotgun and some snap caps.
 
My old fashioned way.....

Keep the firing hand in position,tuck the butt into the armpit and keep the shotgun level. Use the support hand to remove shells one at a time from the Side Saddle and stuff them in the magazine with the thumb pushing them ALL the way in. Or, same deal from a belt pouch/shell belt two at a time and stuff.

I'm sure there's faster ways and more modern techniques, but this works for me....
 
Snap caps are practice rounds, made out of clear plastic usually, that can be loaded into a gun and then "fired"...I'm not sure of the exact operation, but I believe that they are spring loaded and emit a "snapping" sound when they are fired. The purpose being to allow operators a safe method of praticing loading, reloading, and unloading, and practice firing without damaging the firing pin.

...in a nutshell.

Am I close? I've never used them, but read about them quite some time ago...
 
Snap Caps are a type if shell that looks like a really shotgun shell that allows you to chamber and dry fire the gun with out ruining the firing pin.
 
I've used both the Cali Comp Works "buckets" and the TecLoaders, and the TecLoaders are incredibly fast once you've got some practice in with them. There are a few issues you might have with them; 1) they can put you in a different class in competition, 2) unless you smooth off some of the sharper edges on the shotgun-mounted bracket that engages the "ears" on the tube, you can cut or gouge yourself when you just want to stuff a couple of rounds in on the run, 3) the capacity of the factory tubes is only 4 rounds, but some shooters have made their own that hold up to 8, and 4) on a SG with a pistol-grip, it can be tricky to get the proper low angle to "sweep" the shells in.
 
I saw a company that made a sort of "ramp" extending off of the trigger guard into the magazine feeding area (technical names escape me). They did some work to it to allow loading very quickly. Anyone ever seen of these?
 
although I would not advocate practice firing without snap caps...it is certainly ok to drop the hammer on occasion on an empty chamber. For example, after reassembly, you should safety check the gun by opening the bolt and pulling the trigger to make sure it doesn't fall, then push the gun closed and if it has a slam fire feature, hold the trigger and make sure it falls when the bolt locks up (and not before)...this is an important test (I suppose you could do it with a snap cap..but I don't see the need for buying snap caps for this test which is maybe done a few times a year).

Snap caps are nice to practice shooting rifles because you take up the slack and have to learn how to squeeze your shots...you don't do this with a shot gun...there is no slack in the trigger. why use snap caps other than to safely practice loading and unloading at home? I like the Brownells dummies...they are shotgun shells without the powder or primers. Feel the same, made of plastic, and nice high quality metal bases that don't get too dinged up by the extractors. they are not to be snapped on though. but then again, I see no purpose in dry firing a shotgun except after dissasembly/reassembly to check the safety mechanism on the hammer.

the dummies are nice to practice stance, aiming, pumping, etc....and they really do hold up better than the aluminum snap caps. they are cheaper too...check out Brownells site.

Just my opinion.
 
I flip the gun upside down with the butt under the strong arm and the rib laying on my weak forearm. I then slip the shells right off the sidesaddle and into the tube. 7 shells in 9 seconds.
 
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where do you get these "snap caps" ?

Google, man. ;)

Do a little searching, I'm sure you can order them on one of the many online gun stores, or you can look up someone local to see if they sell them. Make a couple of phone calls to local gun shops...even if they don't have them, I'm sure they could point you in the right direction.
 
I've found that with a pistol grip stock (in my case an extended top-folder) its fairly quick and easy to hold the shotgun in firing position with my strong hand while feeding shells into it with my weak hand. Haven't tried with a conventional stock.
 
I saw a company that made a sort of "ramp" extending off of the trigger guard into the magazine feeding area (technical names escape me). They did some work to it to allow loading very quickly. Anyone ever seen of these?

You're thinking of the Arredondo Speedloader Assist; http://www.arredondoaccessories.com/category.cfm?cid=1004,2008&PID=fc25l4901rwbtv&GID=

fc25l4901rwbtv.jpg
 
The number of rounds fired in the average engagement (engagement = 1 shooter vs. 1 target) where shotguns are involved is low- one or two. This is not to say that you might not have the bad luck to be greeted by a pack of five or six would-be home invaders or the like. You might then have five or six sequential engagements in rapid succession and be forced to reload in action, or to transition to a sidearm if one is available.

That is a nightmare scenario of course. But you should be working to hone your skills for a worst case event, and with a tube magazine fed shotgun there is no more critical skill set than running the gun. Ammunition management is a key component of that skill set. That means not only keeping the gun loaded but having it loaded with the most suitable ammunition for the job at hand, even during an ongoing series of engagements.

I am not talking about skillsets for 3-gun or shotgun side matches here. The shooting games teach some very useful skills, but they also instill some very bad and potentially fatal habits if the practitioner is not careful what habits he or she is building. One of my favorites of Murphy's Rules of Combat: "Incoming fire has the right of way." Cover is critical, movement and movement to cover is essential. Standing flatfooted in the midst of a gunfight can get you killed. Not only do you need to have good skills at keeping a tube magazine shotgun fed, but you need to be practiced at doing it on the move and/or from potentially awkward positions. As if it weren't already enough of a problem, right? Well, life is hard in the fast lane, and everyone knows where to find "sympathy" in the dictionary, I'm sure.

Everyone gets to start with what's in the magazine. I suppose that's why a lot of people get all wrapped around the axle looking for the longest magazine with the highest capacity they can fit under the shortest barrel they can find. Louis Awerbuck says, 'No magazine is ever big enough.' Then he sets out to prove it to you in class, and by George he's right. When you have a drill that requires you to run 15 rounds down the barrel as fast as you can stuff 'em, no magazine is ever big enough. Your ability to load the gun, keep track of what's where, if there's a round in the chamber, if there's a round in the magazine, is critical. And if you cannot keep track of these minor details (and under the adrenalin-kicked pressure of a gunfight, few people can) then your ability to determine the status of the gun and fix what needs fixing will have to do as a substitute.

Louis' answer to these problems is reasonably simple. He advises ALWAYS running the bolt, even if the gun clicks empty, run the bolt. He advises perfecting one loading drill- loading through the loading port and not worrying too much about ejection port loading. He advises loading the gun at the shoulder with the muzzle dropped just enough to take some of the weight off the gun, keeping the firing hand in position. He insists that you NOT look at the gun but keep your focus downrange on the target area.

To get started on the process of determining the status of the gun, if a lull in hot and heavy action permits, press check the magazine tube. IF:

1) you feel an empty hole, you know your magazine spring is bound up somewhere in the magazine tube and you are in trouble deep and dire. Time to transition if you have a sidearm, or else make up your mind to go to work as effectively as you can manage with the single shot shotgun you are now holding. Get back in the fight no matter what you have to do. You quit, you die. You flap, dither and screw around, you die. Real simple...

2) you feel your follower, you know the magazine is empty. There may or may not be a round in the chamber at this point, but you KNOW the magazine is empty.

3) you feel a primer, you know there is at least one round in the magazine, perhaps more. You do not however know for sure there is a round in the chamber. You might have short stroked the previous round, being sure is always better than wondering when you can be sure.

Given 2 or 3 above, next step is to press check the chamber and make sure there's a round under the hammer. With practice all this takes very little time in reality, under pressure it only FEELS like an eternity. It's funny, the flashlight people talk about what an advantage it is to be 'hiding behind a wall of light.' Well, I got news for 'em- that's NOTHING LIKE as reassuring as hiding behind the curtain of lead that a practiced operator can dispense from a 12 gauge repeater. It's pretty discouraging to have the roaring beast in your hands go utterly silent when you are under pressure to keep dinging targets though. You will want to get it back up and running (roaring) as soon as you can.

If you discover an empty chamber with your press check, you will want to get the chamber loaded ASAP. The chamber has to be loaded for the gun to fire again, after all. That means either chambering the round you know is in the magazine, or loading a round into the magazine and chambering it.

Then you load as many rounds as you can into the magazine as quickly as you are able. And you do all this either on the move to cover or from behind cover. Sounds like fun, right? And do you want the first time you face all these challenges to be 'for real,' in the midst of your own nightmare scenario?

No?

Then practice. Take a class, or several classes. If the best you can do is get on the list at the forum's Lending Library to see Louis' training tape, do that- so you will have a better idea of WHAT you should be practicing. But performing in class, with the pressure that an instructor and a group of fellow shooters can bring, is almost certain to do you a lot more good in real life than watching any amount of training tapes. Unless you are a graduate of at least one formal shotgun class, and/or are an experienced competitor and already have whatever benefits that 'stress inoculation' from competing in front of others can bring you, then IMHO you really need to consider getting some formal training and/or starting to compete in local 3-gun or shotgun side matches. The process can do you a lot of good in developing your defensive shotgun skillset, if you do it right.

All this has been a pretty long trip around the elbow to get to the thumb, in view of the original question. But I hope it's useful (if you think it isn't, feel free to ignore it). Personally I like short shotguns, and short magazine extensions- my preference runs to 18" barrels and 2-round extensions on my 870s. I like Sidesaddles of the 6-round variety, given my druthers. Of course, since it is my wife's needs that matter more, three of the 870s deployed here have standard 4-round magazines with no extensions and 4-shot Sidesaddles. "My" 870 is handy to my side of the bed, the others are ... here and there about the house, let's say.

My pajamas don't have pockets, so if I have to grab an 870 at 0-dark-thirty, what I am going to have is the ammo in or on the gun. With 'my' 870 that's 5 rounds of Hornady 00 in the magazine and 6 Kent/Brenneke KO slugs in the Sidesaddle. We live in a very rural area, there is no one else in the house but the two of us and penetration is what the bad guys need to worry about here. I know this is a luxury some folks don't have, so ammunition selection may be a different problem for others reading this.

But this is a thread about keeping ammo in the magazine, not what ammo to have available. I came to follow the basics of what Louis Awerbuck teaches about shotgun loading on my own a good while ago, it is what I practice on my own. By that I mean loading the gun at the shoulder with the support hand from a Sidesaddle, doing all the loading through the loading port unless the gun is reduced to a single shot by a magazine malfunction, and finding the loading port by using the front of the trigger guard as a guide (one of the reasons I like 870s is that fluid sweep cast into the front of the trigger guard- it's like a runway into the magazine).

One more thing. On a day when you have some spare time for fieldstripping and reassembly, load a shell into your magazine backwards and see what happens to your gun. Remember that shotgun shells will go into a tubular magazine backward just as easily as frontwards, and 'teach' your support hand to always always feel for the rim of the shell as it is positioned for loading. At best you will only have to pull down the magazine tube assembly to straighten this one out, but it is an experience you should get under your belt before it happens in the middle of your gunfight. Think of it as a motivational exercise... and as always,

Stay Safe,

lpl/nc
 
Enjoyed reading that post Lee. Nice and clear explanations.

I have a question for you about keeping an older shotgun loaded (tube loaded, not a round in the chamber). One without a disconnect. Like the M97 or M12.

would you advise, hammer down, safety off (which is the only option in these guns...safety cannot be engaged with the hammer down.

OR

Hammer cocked, safety on.

It seems to me the first one, which I have read some advocate, is dangerous. For one thing the pump is easy to unlock with the hammer down. And if in the heat of a stressful situation you pump the gun and have your finger on the trigger....bang...slam fire.

Seems the best is the latter. You then have to do two things before it can fire. You have to release the pump slide stop, pump, and then release the safety...

OR

would you suggest leaving the shells out of the tube altogether and in a side saddle.
 
I load mine Gordon Freeman style. Flip it upside down, with the stock under my arm pointing at the dirt (takes my finger off the trigger) and use that funky cool heat shield on my 590 to hold onto it with my forward hand while I load with my trigger hand.
 
Thanks for the kind words, Audie.

Best answer I can offer is- it depends. On your situation and on you, because there is no "right" answer to that sort of thing. There are a range of choices, some better than others and all of them situationally dependent.

No firearm should be left unattended within reach of children. When a 'house gun'- long gun that is- is unattended, it needs to be locked up or secured against unauthorized access/use. One of ours for example is hidden on hooks installed just over the door of a closet on the inside, so it is out of sight. I changed out the lockset on that door- it now has a lock with a key, so the gun can easily be locked up while still completely out of the view of casual visitors, with no more apparent motion than closing the closet door. It doesn't have to be moved to the safe, unless we leave home.

A defensive firearm that is not ready for use with a minimum of fuss is essentially useless. Long guns which are not carried are always going to be 'less ready' than sidearms, which have the advantage of being attachable to your person for long periods of time with little bother. I see no need to keep any long gun that is not in your hands or slung around your neck in such a condition that it is ready to fire if the safety is switched off. You will have to pick it up, while you are getting it in hand, it is just as quick to make it ready to fire. I think that the magazine should be loaded and the chamber empty on any 'house gun/long gun' that is not literally in your hands or hung over your neck/shoulder and ready for immediate use in the face of a threat.

I learned the 'cruiser ready' mode a long time ago, and I was taught to use the hammer down- safety on mode, a combination that is possible in the 870. That entailed a double check (visual and tactile) of the chamber before dropping the hammer. I have shifted to keeping the chamber empty, hammer cocked/action locked and safety on, since the 870 can be stubborn to load into the magazine with the hammer down and the action unlocked. I keep an empty slot in the magazine in case I need a slug first up, it would slow things down too much to have to run a round into the chamber to cock the hammer and lock the action closed, then load a slug into the magazine and then cycle it into the chamber.

So I can see no real argument against doing what you suggest. Habits are things that can work for you if you let them, and it is human nature to establish and follow habits. I think it is necessary to always be consciously careful when handling firearms, as Murphy is always hanging around. I had another example of that demonstrated for me just last evening, I had stopped by my favorite FFL dealer's shop to pick up a stripped AR lower I had ordered, and one of the employees AD'ed a pistol he was fiddling with into the floor while I was there. It slamfired, his finger was in register on the frame when it fired- but it still fired. Sure got everyone's attention- but since he had the pistol pointed almost straight down and clear of everyone's feet (his boss and one other employee were behind the counter, three customers including me in front), there was no blood drawn. A .40S&W sure is loud indoors with no hearing protection on, though.

Stay safe,

lpl/nc
 
I keep the gun mounted on my shoulder, strong hand on grip, and load with my weak hand. I agree with Awerbuck, and never load into the ejection port. It just confuses matters.

I'm a 3gunner by nature, and I've taught myself to load multiple shells at a time. I usually do 4 at a time. As in I pick 4 off of my vest or best, hold them under the loading port, and rapid fire shove them in, one after the other.

The slow part of loading is the movement time between gun and body. This is just taking a bunch of extra trips out of the equation.

Or I run a Saiga. :) 2 seconds. 8 more shots. Boo yah.
 
C,

You're gonna talk me into trying one of those infernal Russian shooting machines yet, if you keep this up...

8^)

lpl/nc
 
In Cowboy Action Shooting matches, the pump action Winchester 97 shotgun is staged open and empty, and is usually single-loaded by the shooter. It is truly amazing to see how fast a good shooter can work an "empty" shotgun.

I know a whole bunch of folks that keep a shotgun around "just in case", but keep it unloaded "just in case an untrained kid or dumb friend messes around with it". When traveling, one may have to pass through areas where one has a legal requirement to store one's gun unloaded. Places like that often define a round in a magazine or speedloader as "loaded". Some of the methods used in CAS matches are quite useful for such scenarios.

We do not often have the luxury of entering a planned fight with a hi-cap mag-fed long gun, a half dozen spare magazines, and a team of similarly armed associates. Sometimes, we do not even have the luxury of starting the unexpected fight with a loaded gun.
 
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