So you want to vote Libertarian?

That isn't true as a percentage of the GDP.

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They have raised discretionary spending as a percentage of GDP more than anyone besides FDR and LBJ. More than Carter, more than Clinton.

The best thing that could happen is for a 3d party to win the house in 2008. That way both parties will wake up and see they are way off on their values. I feel neither side really sides with my beliefs.

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Actually, the BEST thing would be for Thomas Jefferson, Solomon, George Washington, Jesus, Ben Franklin, Robert E. Lee, Yoda, Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Mother Theresa, Ronald Reagan, Moses, Patton, Abraham, Ayn Rand, Davy Crocket, Martin Luther King, Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Mitch Rapp, Andy Griffith, The Black President from "24", Ghandi, Jack Bauer, Daniel Boone, Leonidas and his 300 Spartans gained control of the House, Senate and Presidency and signed up to the "We Don't Need No Stinkin' Parties" Party caucus.

All these folks would then proceeded to:
-Eliminate all Executive Orders
-Roll back all so-called campaign-finance-reform laws that funnel $$$ to political parties
-Kill all Gun Control Laws
-Re-write the 2nd Amendment to make it more clear
-Add 10 other Amendments to make the 2nd Amendment even more clear
-Add a final Amendment saying "We really mean it - All People have the right to own, carry and practice with as many guns as they choose. And no one can do anything to stop them as long as they don't hurt anyone, they shoot courteously and they follow the 4 rules."
-Require marksmanship training for all
-Add an additional Amendment saying "Oh -- And it's NOT about hunting, but you'd better support hunter's rights too."
-Vote that the Constitution is not a "living document"
-Spend the extra government tax money from the "revolutionary year" (now that there are so many fewer programs to support) paying for statues commemorating our soldiers and carving the Bill of Rights into Granite at every town center in the USA
-Reduce the size of all US Governments to roughly pre-1800 levels - except for the DEFENSIVE military
-And eliminate all other laws, policies, rules and regulations that overstep the role of the Federal Government according to the Constitution and its Amendments

I think that would be the best thing.

Just a little more unlikely than a Libertarian-controlled anything in the US.

Please explain how it works.

For the sake of discussion, let's say that the "message" votes are received as intended. Instead of looking at each other quizzically and shrugging when confronted with a few thousand Libertarian votes, Republican leaders truly change direction. Party policies at odds with the Libertarian way are sequentially abandoned.
This is somehow done in such a way that the grassroots true believers in the banning of gay marriage, the war on drugs, prayer in schools, and a flag burning amendment don't really mind. They were really closet Libertarians all along, held in thrall by an authoritarian Party. Hundreds of thousands of Bible Belt conservatives are relieved of the burden of pretending to be against embryonic stem cell research. They no longer care to have it prohibited by law.
The stage is set for something amazing in the next election....

Oh crap! I forgot about that other party! Sure, they will find common ground with libertarians on a narrow range of items dealing with personal license. On the wider scope though, the whole notion of armed civilians living in control of a reduced government is nightmarish to them. Where is the government monopoly on education? Who will forcibly redistribute wealth? Who will make us drive hybrids? How will we fund the monorail? Where are the provisions to compensate for past injustices? What about Global Warming and the Multicultural village it takes to raise a child?

I digress excessively. I just wonder how Libertarian ideals can flourish in those areas of the country where Social Progressive ideals are accepted with little question or criticism. Until they do, the Left and the squishy middle will be able to defeat even a reformed Libertarian / Republican party.

Quote:
That isn't true as a percentage of the GDP.
They have raised discretionary spending as a percentage of GDP more than anyone besides FDR and LBJ. More than Carter, more than Clinton.

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While you have overstated the spending it has done nothing but go up under Bush.

Here is a link to the Cato report that shows telomerase beats me on the spending issue.
The Grand Old Spending Party

Still looking for a list of Libertarian Candidates who won in this election.

Even if the libertarian party has no hope of winning these elections outright, they can still force mainstream politicians to change their positions in order to garner libertarian votes.

Politicians in Montana will now have to take the libertarian vote into consideration as a possible election-deciding factor. Perhaps both sides will shift a little towards the libertarian viewpoint, thus the libertarian votes will not have been wasted.

Well said, Greg.

Biker

Well said, Greg. However, I'm a little disturbed by Possible and Perhaps.

Anyway, Perhaps the Dems won't take it out on legal gun owners.

It's possible with most all the states now having CCW. The Schumer/Pelosi/Soros gang will think twice about trying to disarm America as has been widely reported.

Without Reading Any Comments Beyond The Original Post,...

...I can state that it's obvious that the time to do your "protest" voting is during the primaries. There is no other lesson to be learned from this. Remember it well, for in 2008 we get another chance.

You'd think people would have learned the lesson that was taught to us in '92 and again in '96. Hell, what am I thinking! The lesson that should have been learned in '92 should have revealed itself in '96! Obviously, it didn't. I'm sorry if this offends anyone here, but it must be said: "People are stupid." For those of you who did learn the lesson, that statement does not apply to you. Those of you who didn't vote in '92 or '96 are exempt, but you'd better learn it now!

48% plus 3% equals 51%. The Democrat didn't win the election, the Republican and the Independent lost it. In races like this, there should be a run-off because no one got a majority. If run-offs were required, those "protest" votes and third party candidates would never be a problem and the majority would rule instead of the minority as in the current system.

I think a Constitutional Amendment is in order.

Woody

"I pledge allegiance to the rights that made and keep me free. I will preserve and defend those rights for all who live in this Union; founded on the belief and principles that those rights are inalienable and essential to the pursuit and preservation of life, liberty, and happiness." B.E.Wood

Even if the libertarian party has no hope of winning these elections outright, they can still force mainstream politicians to change their positions in order to garner libertarian votes.

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Politicians (regardless of party) don't give a damn about 1%-2% of the vote.

The best way to impliment libertarian ideals is to infiltrate the party and push the base toward the "L". Thats the point of the RLC. But working with one of the parties doesn't get you anywhere if that party is out of power.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the 3% Libertarian vote in Montana had a huge effect...it gave the Senate to the Dems. Instead of gridlock — which as a libertarian myself I would heartily support — we've got two years of a Dem meatgrinder to fight.

Never been much of a "statement" person myself...hope all the rest of us don't have to pay for that particular "statement."

Michael B

Politicians (regardless of party) do give a damn about 1%-2% of the vote if they lose by 0.5%....

Dole lost because he ignored the fringe. Gore lost because he ignored the fringe. Burns lost because he ignored the fringe. Do you think the next Repu or Demo in line is going to take notice? They'd better, because, as the Repus have just demonstrated, the same blithe disregard for the views of the fringe that costs your opponents the election one year can cost you the election six years later. Many learned that lesson last night. They may forget... when they do, they'll pull a Burns and lose because of that fringe.

As they should. Burns deserved to lose. The Repus deserved to lose. They were too big-government, too big-brother, too controlling, too invasive. They built the infrastructure that is going to track your gun purchases and facilitate the confiscation. They built the infrastructure that is going to turn your phone call with an aunt vacationing in Italy into a "watch list" entry on your record that will keep you from buying a gun "in the interests of national security"... they built the boot that the Demos will use to grind you into the mud. The Demos didn't deserve to win... but the Repus deserved to lose just for being stupid enough to give the Demos such tools. And anyway, them's the breaks in a two party system. Don't like it? Stop voting for Repus and Demos. There are many alternatives, most of them better.

The best way to impliment libertarian ideals is to infiltrate the party and push the base toward the "L". Thats the point of the RLC. But working with one of the parties doesn't get you anywhere if that party is out of power.

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Great idea, so when are you joining the Democrats in order to change them from within on gun control, big government and welfare?

Actually the classic Rove strategy IS to ignore the fringe, vilify the opposition, and thus mobilize the base. You could as readily say that the folks that lost, did so because they didn't motivate their core constituency enough. But since that can't be laid out with neat percentages nearly as easily, it isn't an argument you'll see on forums like this very often. Though, I bet the political consultants are aware of it - why pander to the 3% of libertarians or other fringes, when you can paint the opponent as an gay-marrying pro-abortion communist and get 5% more of your base to the polls?

Rove's strategy cost the Repus control of congress. Seems like they need to rethink their strategy if they want to regain anything. Anyway, the Repu "base" is getting old, joining AARP, and supporting the Demos because they want free handouts paid for by my tax dollars. If they can still vote at all they vote for handouts and aren't worried about gun rights or preserving personal freedoms they can no longer enjoy anyway.

This election had the greatest "young voter" turn-out in 20 years. Didn't help the Repus at all.

That may be in Montana, but it's hardly a proof of concept.

Here in Washington we had a Republican dubious on 2a versus and anti-gun Dem and a pro-gun Libertarian.

US SENATOR
711/711 100.00%
Vote Count Percent
D - Maria Cantwell 66,136 60.08%
R - Mike McGavick 40,803 37.06%
L - Bruce Guthrie 1,474 1.34%

McGavick would have needed 10 times the number of votes that the Libertarian got.

3rd parties aren't the problem. Worthless Republicans are.

By the way, I voted for 3 Republicans, none made it.

The only thing that makes me want to puke more than the unprincipled Republicans that brought this mess on us is the smarmy libertarians (many who reside here) that have helped put these euro socialist Democrats into power. A pox on all of ya.

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What a load of crap.

God forbid the current big spender republicians, who ran away from their platform to embrace big Govt, BE called on it and kick out!!!
God forbid!!
The GOP becomes totally unprincipled and yet you blame voters for sticking to their principles by kicking them out????

Makes me think it is voters like you that keep perpetuating the problem by voting for party reguardless of direction. Welcome to the Titannic, please continue to rearrange the chairs...... wow

Welcome to the Titannic, please continue to rearrange the chairs...... wow

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It's better than where we are at now, drilling holes in the hull to spite the chair movers.

How putting the Democrat gungrabbing socialists in charge makes things better is a mystery to me.

Here is your new Senate Judicial committee, home of leftist judges and new gun control legislation.

The situation in the Senate may be worse (pending the outcome of the
Virginia senate race). Should Democrat Jim Webb hang on to win, the
expected new Senate Majority will be F-rated Harry Reid (NV) and the
probable incoming Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee would be
GOA F-rated Pat Leahy of Vermont

From there it really goes downhill.

The rest of the Democrats currently on the committee make up the
Who's Who of the anti-gun movement:

* Ted Kennedy (MA), the mouthpiece for Sarah Brady in the Senate;

* Joe Biden (DE), who chaired the Judiciary Committee when the Brady
bill passed in 1993, and who said at that time, famously, "The public
and the Congress have spoken unequivocally, and I don't care what a
minority wants;"

* Herb Kohl (WI), author of the "Gun Free Zones Ban;"

* Dianne Feinstein (CA), author of the so-called "Assault Weapons"
ban;

* Russ Feingold (WI), Democrat lead sponsor of so-called campaign
finance reform;

* Charlie Schumer (NY), lead sponsor of the 1993 Brady law; and,

* Dick Durbin (IL), one of the most outspoken gun control zealots in
the senate.

Gun owners should look twice at the above list. Most or all of these
members will remain on the Judiciary Committee when the new Congress
convenes in January, and will help shape American gun laws for at
least the next two years.

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The libertarian clown posse rides in spouting all their theory and meanwhile the euro leftists have taken control, good job.

GoRon,

Why is the fault of the Libertarians that the Republicans lost? Do you think the Republicans loosing might have had anything to do with...uhhh...The REPUBLICANS? If they had their stuff in order and were behaving like Democrats in drag then they would have thrown the Democrats a beating.

THEY should take responsibility for their own actions, and YOU shouldnt try to impose blame on me for their actions.

Thank You.

You'd think people would have learned the lesson that was taught to us in '92...but it must be said: "People are stupid."

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Shoulda been the GOP that learned that lesson, not people who vote for the candidates who best represent their views.