Victory!...kinda

Noob,

You have a contract with your father. (He'll sign FOID app, if you do not use it to purchase guns).

Honor it.

If fyou don't like his rules, then move out of his house.

Easier to get forgiveness than permission...

... and I have to confess, I have had several episodes where I did what I felt was right (as in justifiable), rather than what pleased my parents. For what it's worth, I always felt I had a bit of "good boy" credit from which to make a withdrawal on such occasions. I'm not saying it was right to disobey or go back on a deal... just that I have no regrets...

I can't tell you how many times my parents told me one thing, then did another. Turn about is fair play in my book. On those occasions I did the "crime" then did the "time" and learned you can do nearly anything, the only question is whether it is worth the price.

I got my FID in MA when I still lived with my parents. I disobeyed them and bought a shotgun and kept it in the house anyway... and you know what? Nothing happened, and they found out when I moved out and they saw it, not a moment before.

My dad raised an eyebrow, my mom was shocked, but they got over it after I explained why I had done that (home defense... my dad had kept a 4" knife for "home security" previously)

The parent or legal guardian giving the consent shall be liable for any damages resulting from the applicant’s use of firearms or firearm ammunition.

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http://www.isp.state.il.us/docs/6-181.pdf

Your father is putting his tush on the line for you. Don't let him down.

Noob

He said "as long as you don't buy". But, if someone gives you a gun (girlfriend), or you trade some thing for it, you would not be braking the deal. What if you trade your girlfriend a nice shiny paperclip for one? Sounds like a win-win to me.

Edit:

I didn't realize that you were a minor. Disregard all previous sarcasm.

Congrats on a win!

You can ALWAYS try to re-negotiate in a couple of months when you've managed to not shoot yourself or others. Your Dad may be a little more amenable at that point.

It's ALWAYS "baby steps," whether it's "Them" trying to take our guns away, or "Us" trying to get our rights clearly spelled out in law. It works on the large scale, and it works on the small one, too.

Noob:

My little brother pulled the exact same thing you are talking about.

My family was never a firearms family. My dad had a couple of long guns and one 9mm handgun in the house, unloaded and locked away, while I was growing up.

When I was 23 I decided to purchase my first firearm. I had been living on my own for quite some time, and I had previously had no experience at all with firearms.

My brother (17 at the time) got jealous/envious/whatever, and decided he wanted a gun too. When he turned 18, he bought a semiauto .22LR rifle and he kept it loaded in his closet at my parents' house.

He informed me that he had it and that he wanted it kept secret from my parents. I promptly told my parents, because he was still living under their roof.

The gun ended up in a locked case in my dad's office, and it damaged the relationship between my brother and my parents. It also damaged my brother's and my relationship.

I would still do it again today, however, 5 years later. He was not (and is still not) responsible enough to own firearms. I'm not saying every 18 year old is not responsible enough... just my brother. Too impulsive and prone to bad judgement.

It depends on who YOU are as to whether you can handle the emotional maturity to own a firearm... No one knows that better than you and your parents. But don't go against their wishes in their house.

You could make a counter-offer to have the gun locked in your parents' custody, with them holding the keys for the trigger lock... that would be fair middle ground in my opinion. But it's ultimately their home.

So my father told me that he will sign my FOID application as long as I do NOT purchase anything. I told him I wanted it so that I could shoot with my girlfriend (which is true) but I just do not know if I can refrain from purchasing a rifle. I am just happy that he is going to actually sign it and wanted to share with you all. Have a great day

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I didn't know what a FOID was, thought maybe it was the yankee spelling for the company that makes Mustang's and F-150's, so I googled it.....you have my condolences.

After reading azredhawk44 's post again, is this just an Illinois thing? When I searched google everything shows up Illinois but there was mention of it being federal. I had never heard of it.

I agree with the second post, honor your contract. If you cant honor a contract with your father, than who can you honor a contract with?

Your Dad's Trusting You

Don't abuse his trust.

Your dad may not be into guns. I'm pretty sure, though, that he's into seeing that you achieve maturity and responsibility.

I'm sure that having him recognize this maturity is important to you, as it certainly is to him.

I would recommend that you invite him along when you go shooting.

I'm not sure how you'd word it, but you want him to see that you're not a bozo or irresponsible. If he can see you shoot, watch you demonstrate safe handling, observe that you carry yourself with dignity at the range rather than dissolve into fits of giggles and war whoops every time you hit a target, that will help reassure him that he's not created a monster.

Further, if he can see that you seek out and listen to the advice of older and more experienced shooters, with the clear intent of doing the right thing, he will also feel more secure in your ability to handle what is, in fact, an awesome responsibility.

He may decline to come. Invite him anyway. He's invested a lot in having you grow up with some integrity. Offer to show him his trust is not misplaced.

I know for a fact that if any of my kids made an offer like that to me, I'd show up.

I agree, the best way to do this is to figure out WHY your Dad is saying "NO" and then convince him the prohibition isn't necessary.

Do you have a driver's license? A car is just as much a responsibilty as a gun is, both wield the power of life and death. A driver's license and a clean driving record show responsibility. Got good grades? Never been in dutch with the Law? Don't get held after at school? Keep up on your chores all right? Working some kind of job? Known for not taking stupid "kid" risks? Always in before curfew? Your whereabouts never in question? run with a respectable crowd? All of these will weigh in your favor. Hopefully, as I did, by the time your 18 you have 3 years or more of this kind of track record. That's what I meant by "good boy" credits. If you can't answer YES to just about all of these, then you have bigger fish to fry than messing with firearms anyway. Buckle down and start building a reputation, then check back in a year or so and see where it's gotten you.

If you get the FOID card, at least give Pops a chance to come around. Take a safety class. Go shooting regularly with Dad or with someone Dad respects (i.e. Wally Cleaver, not Eddie Hascal). After a few months of this (yeah, I know, patience is a virtue but it isn't a lot of fun...) revisit the issue with Dad. If the answer is no, then never speak of it again. If you do decide to go behind your Dad's back and get one anyway, then you must be EXTRA careful that you never do anything that would get you in trouble with it. You must never let Dad find out, either. One can have the opinion that Dad is getting what he wants (you not having a careless incident with a firearm) but just not in the way he stipulated. Admit to yourself that this is technically "wrong" but it is the only way to get a fair shake for both of you.

Keep in mind that if Dad or Mom or even Grandpa (who lives in the spare bedroom) have a felony (even if no time was served, plea bargain) from decades ago, or a domestic violence conviction (even if the charges were bogus) you could be subjecting them to VERY REAL RISK of jail time if a firearm is found in the house with them. You think you know everything about your parent's past? Most of their lives were lived before you were born, likely. There may be some skeletons in the closet they don't want you or anyone else to know about. Think carefully about what you do, it's not just yourself you have to think about. Also consider that you may have others in the house who are not as trustworthy as you - for instance a little brother, or a friend who comes over occasionally, who they do not trust as much as they trust you. If something bad happens (little bro or your careless friend find your gun, pop a round in the chamber and proceed to have a negligent discharge) your folks will be held accountable.

I'm kind of lost on this thread. I just recently found out what FOID means (like SDM, I didn't know what it was the first time I saw it mentioned on THR).

If Dad says "ok, but no purchases", doesn't that mean that the person is not a minor? I mean, a minor could not purchase anyway... Or does it mean, "ok but no purchases when you become an adult"?

Minor?

doesn't that mean that the person is not a minor?

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If son is 18, he's not a "minor" but if he lives somewhere where you're not a fully vested "adult" until 21, say, Illinois, then you'd have a foundation for this.

Clarification, please, from someone with milage on this?

Where I live, my son and younger daughter can each buy a RIFLE or SHOTGUN but may not purchase a sidearm. They may each OWN a sidearm (say, given as a gift), just not BUY it.

So, here in Nevada, ownership (of all types) is okay at 18, but purchase of sidearm and CCW must wait 'til 21. No way that I know of to waive that here.

If I remember his earlier posts, GunNoob is in Illinois, yes?

I am under the age of 21, can I apply for a FOID card?
Yes. In addition to all other requirements, a person who is under 21 years of age must have the written consent of his or her parent or legal guardian to possess and acquire firearms and firearm ammunition. Also, he or she must not have been convicted of a misdemeanor other than a traffic offense or adjudged delinquent. The parent or legal guardian providing written consent must be eligible to possess a valid FOID card.
http://www.isp.state.il.us/foid/firearmsfaq.cfm

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So it looks like he can get this magic FOID card if he has an over-21 parent or guardian sign/vouch for him, and although this makes it legal for him to purchase, his dad has signed subject to a "household" condition.

When you take the time to think about it, this is a very sad thread.

I guess that the days of being 12 years old and having a .22 and a shotgun in your bedroom closet, mowing lawns to buy ammo, and then going UNSUPERVISED to pop rabbits and hunt quail are long gone. Childhood was great for me, sorry that kids today don't have the same.

When you take the time to think about it, this is a very sad thread.

I guess that the days of being 12 years old and having a .22 and a shotgun in your bedroom closet, mowing lawns to buy ammo, and then going UNSUPERVISED to pop rabbits and hunt quail are long gone. Childhood was great for me, sorry that kids today don't have the same.

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Well, at least kids these days get to enjoy still being "children" well into their 20's and beyond...

Honor the contract with your father, as others have said. In a few months try to renegotiate.

Your honor is the only thing you have that cannot be taken from you. If your father cannot trust you to keep your word nobody can. It's not worth it just to own a gun a year or two early.

Childhood was great for me, sorry that kids today don't have the same.

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Many kids do have it that way today, and many kids in days past did not. Not every household was pro-gun/ pro-hunting in this country even 50 years ago... or even 200 years ago. It's up to the parents just as it ever was.

What HAS changed is the kid being taken to the woodshed with a razor strap for breaking his word to his father... if THAT cultural icon was still in place I expect we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Never abuse anyone's trust, especialy your father's. Trust is something that is extremly hard to regain from anyone. Your father is takeing you at your word that you only want the F.O.I.D. card to go shooting with your girlfriend. At this point in your life he believes that you would'ent lie to him. If the real reason is so you can buy a gun and take your girlfriend shooting then tell him that. I left home when I felt like liveing by my own rules. If he dose not want you to buy a gun and keep it in his house, then just move out. Avoid all the fights, they serve no purpose in the end because you are always wrong since it is HIS HOUSE! Always rember that he has LET you live there all these years.The best part about not breaking the rules in your fathers house is the fact that this showes him the respect he deserves. When you move out on your own, He will have a new respect for you, and view you as a responsable adult. Don't screw it up by lieing to him about one of the most important choices you make in your life, witch is to arm yourself.

Honor that agreement w/ your dad until you can get that rifle on your own! It'll mean more
Congrats & enjoy that trigger time w/ the GF *wink*wink*nudge*nudge!*

make your word good

Noob, Be a man and honor your word. to me that also includes weasle-ing around the fine print. You don't want to accumulate memories you will regret later.
pete

ditto. As a parent of five I will not allow for loopholes. If they are considering a loophole they'd better ask first.

Never abuse anyone's trust, especialy your father's.

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Couldn't have said it better myself. Would you rather have you father go to bat for you, or say, "Well, you made you bed, now sleep in it."?

I didn't read all the posts but I'm sure this has been said here already more than once.

Trust is hard to re-gain once lost. DO NOT disappoint your Father and trash the trust he has placed in your word. One of the true tests of a man is how good his word is. Make your Father proud that your promise is worthy of a man's trust.

/father mode off

Congrats on your new found freedom to shoot. Shooters are always happy to hear about a new and safe shooter.