Poachers, hang em high!

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mrrick

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New York Times


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December 9, 2006
Poachers in West Hunt Big Antlers to Feed Big Egos
By RANDAL C. ARCHIBOLD
ELY, Nev., Dec. 3 — A bighorn sheep lay in a field not far from here, its head missing. In nearby Elko, three elk and five deer died from gunshot wounds, their carcasses rotting in the hills. And in the distant mountains, game wardens searched for another elk that a tipster said had been killed by illegal hunters apparently just for the thrill of it.

The reports keep coming in — elk, deer, antelope, bighorn sheep and other big-game animals — killed in a wave of poaching that has alarmed state and federal wildlife officials in Nevada and several other Western states.

The authorities said they are seeing more organized rings of poachers and unlicensed guides chasing the biggest elk and mule deer, with the largest antler array, sometimes trading them on Internet auction sites or submitting pictures to glossy hunting magazines that prominently feature big kills.

“There is almost a fixation on possessing or obtaining trophy-class animals,” said Jim Kropp, the wildlife law enforcement chief for Montana, which this fall began a new public awareness campaign about poaching called Enough is Enough. “People,” he added, “will go to any length to have these things in their possession. It’s big antlers and big egos.”

The federal government does not keep national statistics on poaching incidents, but wildlife law enforcement officials in several states, mainly those with large populations of elk, mule deer and other animals prized for their impressive antlers or girth, have raised concerns about the rash of complaints and the big money that seems increasingly a factor in the cases they investigate.

The officials said tight regulations on where and what can be hunted at various times of year, part of an effort to manage the size of big-game herds, had motivated some shooting out of season or on restricted land.

The National Park Service wrote in a budget statement last year that poaching had contributed to the decline of 29 species of wildlife in the 390 parks and other sites it oversees.

An interstate compact set up 15 years ago in a few Western states to track and punish violators of hunting laws across state lines has grown to 24 states nationally, including New York this year. Big-game crimes, mostly related to poaching, accounted for 42 percent of the violations to the compact last year.

“We treat these as essentially homicides,” said Lt. Jerry Smith, a Nevada supervising game warden. “But it is such a secretive crime. We have no witnesses to work with, just the bodies, when we find them.”

A decade ago, Nevada tallied 50 or so animals poached or killed out of season and by hunters without permits. Last year, 70 such animals were found, the highest number ever; so far this year the tally is 65, and with a few weeks of the biggest hunting left, Nevada officials said the number could surpass last year’s.

And game wardens here suggest that far more animals may have been killed than they have found; they calculate that they find 1 percent to 5 percent of poached animals.

Poaching is not Nevada’s problem alone.

This year, Montana and federal investigators seized 30 elk heads and prosecuted 22 people in a poaching ring who drew fines and the ring leader, Danny McDonald of Gardiner, Mont., a year in federal prison.

They had illegally led out-of-state hunters to trophy bull elks leaving Yellowstone National Park.

In Idaho, Ed Mitchell, a spokesman for the Department of Fish and Game, said poaching cases in the state had remained steady in recent years, but the crimes increasingly are carried out by people in the black market for antlers and heads, which can fetch tens of thousands of dollars.

“Legitimate hunters don’t find it entirely understandable, but some people will pay to have some critter on their wall they can claim they have shot,” Mr. Mitchell said. “Hunters find that completely out of the realm of understanding.”

In part to better understand the scope of the problem, the Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies is developing a database that will include closer tracking of the number and nature of poaching incidents nationwide.

In Nevada, officials said they suspect the strict regulation that has allowed the elk and deer population to flourish may also be driving up poaching. People who covet antlers as decorations or to sell on the market do not want to wait the decade or more it can take to get a tag, or permit, to hunt a single big elk or deer.

This year, 25,893 people requested an elk tag, but only 2,254 were issued, to the dismay of some hunter groups that have pushed for more tags. On average, the department receives 15 applicants for every bull elk tag.

Like other states, Nevada has a sparse staff of field game wardens who cover vast swaths of territory, making it easier for poachers to get away with their crimes. Often, poached animals are not found until hunters deep in the backcountry come across something suspicious, said Rob Buonamici, the law enforcement chief for the Nevada Department of Wildlife.

But several of the finds in the past couple of years have been close to growing, populated areas, leading him to suspect the culprits may have been newcomers taking advantage of easy targets close to home.

The rise in poaching here has come as Nevada has managed to increase its elk and mule deer population greatly in recent years, and officials fear poaching will set back those efforts.

“Wildlife belongs to everybody,” said Mr. Buonamici of the Nevada Wildlife Department. “If not for what the departments of fish and wildlife do and the sportsmen support through the fees they pay, the little old lady in L.A. would never be able to see a wildlife documentary because there would be no wildlife left.”

Poaching also angers licensed hunters because it depletes the pool of animals they can potentially bag; by law they must carry away all the edible portions of their kill, which typically fill a freezer and provide steaks, burgers, jerky and the like for more than a year.

“I don’t understand why they just go out there, kill it and leave it,” said Lazo Pavlakis, 76, shaking his head as he stood triumphant over a bull elk he legally killed on the first day of an elk hunt here, 200 miles north of Las Vegas. He had waited 18 years for a permit, issued by annual lottery, to shoot a single elk, which he planned to consume with his grandsons.

“This is about once in a lifetime for me, so no, I don’t appreciate hearing about elks killed and left out there,” he said.

Up against the poachers are wardens like Joe Maslach, a 17-year veteran of the Nevada Wildlife Department and a devoted hunter himself.

On one recent tour, Mr. Maslach put 300 miles on his department-issued pickup truck, checking the documentation of hunters, making sure that legally set traps complied with regulations and responding to a call from a tipster of poached chukars, a popular game bird.

Discovering 26 of the birds shot dead and tucked into bushes, Mr. Weslach grew disgusted as he worked what in effect was a crime scene, photographing the position of the birds, measuring tracks and taking the birds’ internal temperature to estimate when they were killed.

“These are the kind of guys you would like to take to jail,” he said, stuffing the birds, frozen stiff in the 20-degree chill, into a bag.

But it was also clear hunters were not accustomed to seeing Mr. Maslach or other wardens. Several said they had never had their hunting documents checked or not for years.

In 35 years of hunting in Nevada, Fred Perdomo, who was legally tracking an elk this weekend, said he had encountered a game warden only twice — 12 years ago and on this trip.

“I heard about the poachings and could not believe it,” he said. “It just doesn’t make much sense.”

Mr. Maslach checked his papers, and then Mr. Perdomo set off toward a stand of trees where an elk waited.
 
I heard about the poachings and could not believe it,” he said. “It just doesn’t make much sense.”

He's had 35 years of experience hunting in that area and doesn't believe it? He doesn't appreciate hearing about this? Like it's a surprise to him?

I don't believe it either. I've spent a lot of time in the woods and have never found a headless body. The Game Wardens themselves said they are guessing about the problem.

The National Park Service wrote in a budget statement last year

Ohhhhh,and how did that turn out for them? Budget approved? Increased? I doubt it turned out well or they'd not have taken this story to the new york freaking times. Maybe they should give Homeland Security a try next time. They can just claim terrorists are doing the poaching and blowing up the evidence. That should get them more money.
 
live in woods

find poached animals a lot they dump em on the road too
some slob dumped 20 wasted carcases on the izack walton property
 
Portray the people with guns as bad - that's the ticket.

You need to be a lawyer to navigate the gun and hunting laws in many states these days.

Found myself trying to explain the laws to someone at a gun counter yesterday as the clerk tried to do the same thing to a cop of all people to my left.

Not sure either of us suceeded. What a mess they've made of things.

And I maintain, if someone needs to kill to eat, its not poaching - that's survival.

If its just for a trophy, in season or out, and the meat is wasted, well I guess that's between you and your God.

I was taught that is wrong.

Ethical hunting doesn't always have anything to do with the laws of man.
 
Poaching is one of those things I kind of have mixed feelings about, to be honest.

Two good examples from last year.

In the area where I was hunting, I heard a shot and thought it might have been someone in my party, so I crossed over the ridge to see if they needed a hand. Turned out to be some guy I didn't know. He'd killed a nice 8-point, so we spoke for a few minutes, he said he didn't need any help gutting it and dragging it out, so I walked on. Two days later I came back through the same area to find the guy had cut the buck's head off and left the body lying there.

Later that same week I came across a guy dragging a big doe out of the woods. Shooting does isn't legal in that part of WV. The guy told me he'd been looking at three deer through his binos, saw one of them was a buck, so he picked his rifle up and shot it. Unfortunately the deer were milling around and he apparently got confused about which one had the antlers, and he'd shot the wrong one. He could have left it lying there and walked away. A lot of people probably would have. Instead, the guy was going to take his chances and try getting it home without getting caught by a game warden. He just wasn't willing to leave it lying there. The guy told me "I hope I don't get caught. I can't afford a ticket, but I should have been more careful."

What the first guy did was legal, but to me was morally wrong. What the second guy had done was against the law, but he was (in my opinion) the better man.
 
My dad had his first heart attack when he was 39. He died at the ripe old age of 50. During the intervening years he had a tough time finding work but still had to feed his family. He poached.
The game warden would have been all over him if he'd ever been caught but that never happened. Every once in awhile he'd drive out to the hills with his .22 and lung-shoot a deer - one shot, one deer. It'd run off aways, lie down and die and he'd dress it out and bring it home. We never wasted anything either. The hides were frozen until hunting season rolled around and donated to a tanner who would give us a pair of gloves for each hide.
We didn't live very high on the hog, but we lived.
 
We can all come up with anecdotes about what might be called survival poaching, but that's a very small amount of the whole deal.

We're all the time talking about today's rudeness, discourtesy and a general lessening of moral values, right? And we're generally an affluent society, true? Add in the ease of access via ATVs to back country, and modern hunting equipment.

Somebody's willing to poach, or get paid a bunch of money to take somebody out to poach.

Me, I don't understand people paying a bunch of money for a big rack to hang on the wall and lying about having shot it themselves. Does not compute.

In the eastern states, black bears are poached for the paws/claws and for the gall bladders. The latter are sold into the Asian market for medicine. On some Indian reservations, deer and elk are killed while in velvet, for sale into the Asian market for aphrodisiacs.

But the problem is real...

Thieves.

Art
 
Let me preface by saying that I have never hugged a tree, and my diet is made up of about 75% meat, much of that which I have taken and processed.

Some of you are being awfully dismissive of this illegal activity. I, for one, think it is dispicable (sp?). I will not blame someone who is down on their luck for taking animals for food, however, I will not defend them either. It is the same as someone stealing from a grocery store. Did they need to do it to survive, yes. Would I do it to feed my family if left with no other choice, you better believe it. But that doesn't make it right. Stealing from others is wrong, no matter how you try to justify it.

The fella' who mistakenly took the doe did just what I would have done, but if I had been caught, I would have understood that I would have to face the consequences, just as he did. Did he do the right thing? Yes and no. He made the best of a bad situation, but violated all of the rules for firearm safety.

Like it or not, these animals do not belong to you, they belong to 'us.' Let's be honest, game laws are overly confusing, it is the nature of the beast. Any type of government decision is bound to be, but game laws are there to protect the game.

If we were allowed to take whatever we wanted, whenever we wanted, numbers would decline. Seasons are established to protect breeding for the propagation of the species. Bag limits are designed to keep sufficient numbers.

I don't think we should throw the book at someone who made an honest mistake. But how do you draw the line, and who's story do we believe.

Do the right thing,

Stinger
 
During several trips to Estes Park, CO, we took pictures of a really beautiful bull elk that hung around town. Even in June, with his HUGE horns still in velvet, he was magnificent! He was so tame you could walk within 25-30 yds without alarming him. The locals named him Sampson. One year we didn't see Sampson and asked about him. Seems a local poacher had killed him with a crossbow and sold his head and horns. After a long investigation, he was arrested and convicted. Don't know the details of his sentence, but IMO it wasn't enough! This was NOT a case of killing for food or survival; this was a case of killing for money!

Good shooting and be safe.
LB
 
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It is the same as someone stealing from a grocery store.

Not by a long shot. And I don't agree that the collective "we" own the deer, comrade. They own themselves.

Given our track record, I'm not sure we can even claim to be stewards of anything. At least not very good ones.

And the laws of man, are just as flawed as we are. Talk about right and wrong, and ethics. Not laws. Because they are often poorly written and/or poorly enforced.

And game laws may have once been to protect the game. I strongly suspect that today they are in place to make sure that three generations from now we are all disarmed vegan slaves.

So poaching is an artificial concept for a society that in the height of arrogance thinks it's civilized.

As for us being an affluent society, we are probably one of the more affluent.

But there are still people who rely on this meat for dinner. And I think in rural areas, the number of families would surprise you. No I don't have any numbers.

But I believe in the right of human existence to be the foremost right. No other species is even close.

That means if every monkey on the face of the planet has to die to cure cancer, then they die. Humanely and with minimum suffering, but they die.

Same goes if all the deer need to die for dinner. Extreme examples, that I hope never come to pass, but the way it needs to be.

The crime is if we do that in a way that disrespected their existence.

And taking game soley for the sake of wall decorations is disrespectful.

And taking game for meat isn't poaching if it is survival.

Taking game for sport, is somewhere in the middle. Not my thing, but not necessarily disrespectful.
 
Not by a long shot. And I don't agree that the collective "we" own the deer, comrade.

Way to take the "High Road," Ranger.

Is name calling the only way you can disagree with someone?

It is really hard to take someone's argument seriously when they begin with a personal insult.

Regards,

Stinger
 
But the problem is real...

Sure it happens. I don't understand why people do it either, I've read about many of the cases. We get a few here every year.

What I don't believe is that 65 cases in a year means wild game is in danger of going extinct. I am not for extinction! But 65-70 cases a year is nothing compared to the legal harvest. Even if it was ten times that many it's still only a minor fraction of the legal harvest. According to the 3 years worth of figures they provide the situation is not growing out of control. 60-70-65.

Budget manuevers. It's like how drugs are illegal because they're bad for your health while they use it as a convenient excuse to rape us for billions of dollars.
 
Gad zooks! Another THR thread bordering on ad hominem! :what: :eek:

I'm subscribed to two now - the other one is here - that are demonstrating some uncharacteristically low road activity. :scrutiny:

Geez, Mars must be going backwards in Uranus, or something. (Just kidding! Astrology holds no water... :D )

OK, folks - we all need reminding sometimes. (Mea culpa. :rolleyes: )

Deep breath. Stay focused on the issues. Attack arguments, not arguers.
____________

Flames :fire: aside, this is an interesting thread. I read the story this morning, then came to Hunting to see if anyone had posted it.

No opinion to offer at the moment, but reading with interest.

Nem
 
Didn't mean a personal attack - bit sensitive me thinks.

But the sentiment behind your thoughts is deciding socialist.

Hence the monicker. Consider it retracted.

I notice you didn't address the substance of my thoughts.

If I've made you think - that's the goal.

Have a nice day.
 
I didn't mean to come across as overly sensitive. I was just trying to point out that this is the High Road, and we should act like it. Like Nema said, attack the argument, not the arguer.

The reason that I didn't address your points was already stated. I will not get into a wizzing contest with someone who's primary argument is name-calling. Since you have retracted your statement, I think I will.

My beliefs are far from socialist, capitalist, democratic, fascist, etc. My arguments are practical. I like to hunt. I don't want people to shoot all of the deer, because if they do, I cannot do it anymore. Call me selfish, but my concern for the deer is so that they continue to exist so that I may hunt them.

I do not really care what a person hunts an animal for. I hunt for the challenge and for the meat. I feel that it brings me back to a simpler time. But if somebody wants to hunt for horns/antlers, then that is their deal. As long as they do it within the law and safely, I couldn't care less.

I agree that humans are numero uno. I don't have a problem with killing all of the monkeys to cure cancer. I don't really even know what the point of you writing that was, because I read no post where anyone tried to say animals were more important than people.

No doubt that we haven't been good stewards of the land. So does that mean we should not try, but allow people to do as they wish and continue the destruction of game animals? I think not. You say we shouldn't consider legalities, but instead morals and ethics. Unfortunately every person has different morals and ethics. Who is right? We must have laws so that your values and morals do not intersect with my rights.

For me to believe that game laws are an infiltrated plot by vegans would require me to apply more tin foil to my cranium than I currently have in my home. I'm not sure what benefit the .gov would get from making all citizens vegans, seeing as how it would destroy the cattle industry in the United States, as well as the hunting and other such industries. Millions of Americans would be unemployed.

But, alas, we have overcomplicated the subject. Yes, it is just like stealing from the supermarket when you illegally take a game animal. Poaching is stealing. It does not belong to you, so do not take it. If the laws were changed, and game animals were made the property of the land owner, then my opinion on game limits would change. Fortunately, that isn't going to happen anytime soon. And hopefully, three generations from now, my family will be able to reap the benefits and be able to hunt like I do.

I hate government interference more than probably 99.9% of all people, but I recognize that it is a necessary evil. Without game laws, some would ruin it for the rest of us. Sure, one or even 100 people violating these laws does not amount to a hill of beans in comparision to the number of animals out there, but when we look the other way in one instance, we must be prepared for others to do the same.

Regards,

Stinger
 
We seem to have done an excellent job of stewardship of wildlife in many parts of the U.S. There are far more whitetail deer and wild turkey now than in past years or decades. All you have to do is look at the season limits for many species.

For instance, in Texas, you once were allowed two bucks and no more. No does. Now, five deer, three of them antlerless. In my lifetime I have watched the numbers increase dramatically. When I was a kid, seeing a deer around my folks' place was a rare event. When I moved there 25 years later, the place was darned near over-run with deer. Even had wild turkey there, which were not there before.

The increased complexity of game laws is an attempt to get away from the "one size fits all" style of the past. Tailored to specific areas and population dynamics.

There have been quite a few studies done over the years about any sort of poaching because of a need for food. As I said before, yeah, there is a little, but danged little. Sorry, but most folks who might have the actual need don't have the means or opportunity. For most meat poachers, it's "want", not "need". There is a difference...

Poaching likely has little impact on total populations, true. However, look at the earlier datum about the number of licenses available in some western states. "This year, 25,893 people requested an elk tag, but only 2,254 were issued..." When the wildlife agencies factor in losses to poaching when they determine the number of licenses to be sold, it means that honest folks have fewer opportunities to be drawn.

"The numbers": If they estimate that they find 10% of poached trophy killls and they find 50 such kills, they subtract 500 permits from what otherwise would have been the total permits issued. IOW, thieves stole the hunting opportunity from 500 honest people. You can go on to the economic losses to hunting guides, motels, restaurants, whatever. The $$$ aren't trivial.

Art
 
I am definitely seeing an increase in the # of deer left to the buzzards and yotes around here this year.
The regs. changed to allow 2 bucks in numerous counties here in Texas that were previously 1 buck only counties.
This year 1 buck must be a spike or have 1 unforked antler and the other must have a spread of at least 13 ".
This change was meant to have the effect of culling the future " basket racks" and leaving the future " big un's" for another year of growth.
I agree with this change.
However, so far I have found 3 bucks with their horns removed and carcasses discarded along the county road paralelling my property.:mad:
Some have the back strap removed and nothing else, and some are just dumped whole.:fire:
I feel this whole emphasis on rack size has blurred the real reasons we go afield. It certainly has for me.
 
New York Times...

The reports keep coming in......a wave of poaching that has alarmed state and federal wildlife officials in Nevada and several other Western states.

Like other states, Nevada has a sparse staff of field game wardens who cover vast swaths of territory, making it easier for poachers to get away with their crimes........

But it was also clear hunters were not accustomed to seeing Mr. Maslach or other wardens. Several said they had never had their hunting documents checked or not for years.

In 35 years....Fred Perdomo....said he had encountered a game warden only twice — 12 years ago and on this trip.

No surprise....article confirms what I've thought for some time. Thanks to State and Federal agencies reducing enforcement efforts, slobs outnumber the good hunters and it's only getting worse. Been hunting for nearly 40 years....never seen it so bad. Enforcement efforts (rather lack of) are to blame for this increased activity.

These agencies deserve an "F" for reducing poaching. Continue to blame it on everything but themselves for the increases.
 
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