Everything you wanted to know about .22s

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javacodeman

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I didn't want to steal Odd Job's thread, so I started this one. Mod's if you feel they're too similar, please merge.

I'm also in the market for a .22 rifle as well. As a firearms noob and a rifle noob in particular (my experience has been with handguns almost exclusively), I am seeking out what I need to know before buying a .22 rifle.

Here are some specific questions that I have:

1) What is the differences between, advantages of, and disadvantages of .22 short, .22, .22LR, and 10/22?

2) What are the advantages and disadvantages of bolt, magazine fed, and tube fed?

3) What price range should I expect to pay for a good (accurate to 60-100 yds and reliable) used and a good new gun?

4) If I buy used, what should I be on the look out for?

I am basically wanting a target rifle that could also be used on small game in the future.

I know that I'm asking a lot, but as I need to know most everything, I don't know of another way. Thanks in advance!!

java
 
Main advantage of 22LR will be that ammo is cheap. The cheapest.

Which allows lots of fun plinking, target shooting whatever.

If you want accuracy, that comes easiest and cheapest in a bolt action. A CZ452 is an overall good buy for you it sounds like. Well made all wood and steel. Bolt action capable of very good accuracy.

A Savage or Marlin bolt action is nearly as good and those can be had for less than $200 new. Maybe even half that or less used.

For accuracy tube fed mags are slightly detrimental because they are attached to the barrel. You don't want things touching the barrel as it upsets the accuracy. Most good rifles have the barrel free floating. It fits close to, but doesn't touch the stock much past the receiver.

Now 10/22's and Marlin 60's are semi-automatics. Not great accuracy compared to bolt actions. And some can have jamming problems. 10/22's can be modded tremendously. But you end up spending a good bit to do it.
Unless the rapid fire of semi-auto is important other choices might be better.

Well that is a start though doesn't answer all your questions. I will let others fill in from there.
 
semi Autos ..I had a marlin tube fed. Model 60? I had a blast with that gun.
I shot it alot and could hit pretty damn well with it. All the talk about 10/22s and I bought one. Wasn't all that Impressed. Of couse you can get almost anything you want for it and its faster to put a new clip in it then reload a tube fed. You still have to load all the clips though. Personally I preferr the marlin.
 
I didn't want to steal Odd Job's thread, so I started this one. Mod's if you feel they're too similar, please merge.

I'm also in the market for a .22 rifle as well. As a firearms noob and a rifle noob in particular (my experience has been with handguns almost exclusively), I am seeking out what I need to know before buying a .22 rifle.

Here are some specific questions that I have:

1) What is the differences between, advantages of, and disadvantages of .22 short, .22, .22LR, and 10/22? [Size of case. A 22 Short, long, or LR (long rifle) are the main ones. A 10/22 is reference to a model of .22 rifle and not a .22 cartridge. Most of them are .22LR and when you see .22, you can assume on this forum it is referencing .22LR.]

2) What are the advantages and disadvantages of bolt, magazine fed, and tube fed? [All repeating firearms are "magazine fed". There are different magazines though. Tube fed looks like two barrels because the rounds are in a tube under the barrel (see Lever action rifles for an example). Bolt action is a type of action and not a magazine. Today most bolt actions are fed with a interal box or a detachable box magazine (also mis-labled as a 'clip'.) Older bolt actions used to use a tube fed magazine, but those are very rare for modern bolt actions now.]

3) What price range should I expect to pay for a good (accurate to 60-100 yds and reliable) used and a good new gun? [$100-200 is accurate. if you want a tackdriver, .22LR isn't it. But you can get good groups and a good rifle for $200 +/- ($100-150 used). The Ruger 10/22 is a great place to start.]

4) If I buy used, what should I be on the look out for? [A shady seller. Really, when it comes to firearms, if the seller looks respectable and the firearm looks like its new, there is a good chance it is in good condition. Still proceed with caution, but by and large I find that to be the case.]

I am basically wanting a target rifle that could also be used on small game in the future. [A .22LR will do fine.]

I know that I'm asking a lot, but as I need to know most everything, I don't know of another way. Thanks in advance!!
 
1) What is the differences between, advantages of, and disadvantages of .22 short, .22, .22LR, and 10/22?

.22 short is is the shortest of the .22 rimfire cartridges and has the lowest muzzle velocity and bullet weight. It is good for killing mice, maybe rats and some other small pests but nothing bigger. It is good for short range target shooting and cheap. It used to be used a lot in pocket-pistols. Personally I would not trust it as a defensive cartridge. It will certainly kill but I personlally don't think it has the stopping power to end a threat in the time needed. Better than nothing of course. It's advantage is it's small, cheap, quiet and lacks penetrating power so is good for shooting in the garden or in a basement etc. Disadvantages are a lack of range and stopping power.

I'm not sure what you mean by '.22' as there are numerous .22 caliber cartridges. I assume you mean '.22 long' which is longer than the .22 short and has a higher muzzle velocity with a heavier bullet. I suppose it's a bit like a magnum version of .22 short. Again, it's small, cheap and quiet. It won't damage the meat much if shooting rabbits or what not. Again, lack of range and stopping power. Louder than a .22 short.

.22 long rifle or .22 LR is the daddy of the .22 rimfires. Higher muzzle velocity, heavier bullet. Good for squirrels, rabbits, foxes, pigeons etc. Again, think of it like a '.22 magnum magnum'. Just like the .22 long but with a bit more range, power and noise.

All of these cartridges are very cheap.

10/22 is not a cartridge, it's the name of a rifle made by Ruger. It was originally chambered in .22 LR but there is also a .22 WMR version (er...that would be a '.22 magnum magnum magnum' :p). It's not so fantastic out of the box but it's highly customizable - so customizable that you can turn it from a fairly innacurate gun with poor ergonomics into a match grade rifle with superb ergonomics. If you want the king of semi-auto .22s, get a 10/22 and spend loads of money upgrading it - or just build one from scratch. However, if you want a gun that performs pretty damn well right out of the box, it's not for you.

2) What are the advantages and disadvantages of bolt, magazine fed, and tube fed?

Bolt actions are slower to fire repeated shots but a $300 bolt action will be more accurate than a $300 semi-auto. They are also more reliable. I've never used a bolt action .22 I'm afraid (my custom Volquartsen barreled 10/22 is all the accuracy I need :D).

All repeating firearms are fed via a magazine. A tube is one type of magazine, usually used on lever action rifles or pumps, but also on some semi-autos. A fixed, internal magazine is another type, usually used on bolt action rifles but also in some semi-autos and lever actions. A removable magazine is usually used in semi-autos, though some bolt actions have them.

.22 rimfire rifles with removable magazines are generally semi-autos which have the advantage of speed, but they are less reliable and less accurate. .22 rimfire magazines also have a reputation for poor feeding. A removable magazine has the advantage that you can expend some or all of the magazine's capacity, then take it out and put a full one in quickly.

Tube fed .22 rimfires are sometimes lever action and sometimes semi-auto. Lever actions are slower than semi-autos but I don't believe they are any more accurate. In fact, they are probably less so as their barrels cannot free-float. They should be cheaper though, and more reliable. Tube fed semi-autos will be less accurate than those with removable magazines, but will feed more reliably I think. Tube magazines usually allow you to 'top off' the magazine with single rounds at any time - but I don't believe this to be the case with rimfires. The only tube fed rimfire I had used had to be loaded from the front, with a ram-rod type tool making it slowe than one with a removable magazine.

3) What price range should I expect to pay for a good (accurate to 60-100 yds and reliable) used and a good new gun?

I don't know about US prices I'm afraid.

4) If I buy used, what should I be on the look out for?

Apart from the usual, it really depends which rifle you go with.
 
no probs buddy;
22 short is a very short case with very little powder,or no powder,
if specified. it is usually a 29 grain round, the no powder ones will be 20 grain rounds. They are very quiet. their accuarcy can be very wild, even when you\
find an accurate round in this, you will be limited to about 30 yds. very little power for the bullet to go any further. everything I have written here,
applies to the 22 long as well, just does it in a longer case. the dif being, if you
have a bolt action , mag fed 22 lr rifle, you may be able to feed shoot, and cycle the 22 long rounds through it, a 22 short will never reliably feed and cycle through something meant only for 22 long rifle. 22 shorts usually are meant for single shot rifles, and for tube feds. though Marlin and some other makers have made mag fed rifles, that will do shorts only, or all three.
10/22 is the short name for the rifle made by Ruger; the Ruger 10.22. it is
not a round.

Bolt fed rounds have no adv or disadv. one over the other, whether they are mag
fed or tube fed rifles. if you are a competition shooter, we can talk about , balance ,harmonics, changing harmonics, weight distribution, etc., add nauseum, but for 99% of us, the diff in supposed, theoretical , accuracy diff-
erences is too small. diff between bolt fed and semi auto are a little bit more
pronounced, but again, not enough for our purposes here. Again, all things being equal, the bolt fed, theoretically be more accurate than a semi auto.

This price range will vary just as much as if they were brand new. so i would
not use this as a criteria for used, simply give yourself a chance to look at everything, from a boltie savage or marlin, all the way up to a cooper, kimber , volquartzen, montana, etc.

look through the sites, see if you get a good site picture. feel their balance, should be right in front of the trigger guard. Does the weight feel good in your
hands, do all the parts 'fit' together nicely or is there big gaps , screws missing, etc. look inside the receiver. is it nice and smooth, no poc marks,
no dig lines in it. pull the bolt out, or have the store do it. look at the face of the bolt, should be nice and pretty, with no chinks or holes in the face of it. any extracor clip thingy on it, of pulling out the shot cartridge, should have a nice, smooth pointy , claw on it, notone that is bent , jagged, etc.of course over all condition, rust spots, wood conditions, etc. to me , rust spots are nothing, but unless the weapon is VERY OLD, it should have no rust pitting.
this shows a sign of neglect. last but not least, buy a couple of snap caps for it, or buy them right there in the gunstore, and ask the guy if you can cycle a few rounds through
it , see how it feels, see if they work reliably, that the tube or mag works reliably, i would get at least 4 snap caps, to put into the magazine, so that i would know the mag is working fine.

If you plan on going in the woods with it, you may wanna just get a marlin or savage, they will be plenty accurate enough, and you can get them with synthetic stocks, also in stainless steel. these require less maintenance, and the stock will not warp from the changing temps, rain, etc. Also you could do any of the rifles mentioned above , including marlin or savage, get them in stainless, with a laminated stock. laminate wood will not bend or warp, they are heavy and will give you the big boy rifle feel, and will up the cost of the marlin or savage into the 300's, that way you wont feel like you bought a cheapy , low end rifle. personally , I could care less what other peeps think about my toys, as long as i can outshoot them with it.

A target/bench/varmint type rifle type tends to be longer, heavier, wider on the front end of the stock, with maybe a bull barrel. because once bagged on a bench or rested, these bigger heavier rifles tend to move or shake less, once the trigger is being pulled, regardless of operator error.

so you have to ask yourself, do I want something light and handy, which I
can easily hump around in the woods? Thomas Jefferson did, he considered
the best form of exercise to be going out in the woods, alone or in groups,
to be great excercise, not just for the body but for the mind as well.
50million Jefferson fans can't be wrong...
or do you want something that will sit , and sit still on the bench, in the bags
while you target shoot to your hearts content?

Finally these are all good tips for looking at ANY kind of rifle really. But you seem to have forgotten one thing, a lot of the conditions of the rifle, how the stock should be , synthetic or not, etc., etc., are all predicated on you
only having one .22!!!! DID YOU HEAR THAT GUYS?? one .22, now thats
funny! I have had about a million, and will proly get another million. I currently have a 70 year oldie with a factory peep site simply because i allways wanted a very oldie with a factory peep site, a pawn shop semi auto, a single shot, a 10.22, a remmy semi auto, the speedmaster, which is the only semi-auto I have ever found, that would reliably do semi auto , with short, long, long rifle, and will do them interchangeably. These are just some of the ones I have now. the beauty is, hunting them down , used, in pawnshops or gunstores, for under 100 bucks, and seeing what you can do with them.

This is why there are, and have been, more mfgrs of 22 rifles, 22 pistols,
22 revolvers, 22 bullets, than any other type of bullet / firearm ever. they know us,
they know we are fools for the little gems, and they know what they make is
addicting. So good luck to you, and my heart goes out to you, if you
are unfortunate as hell to get stuck on tricking out 10.22's....
 
Thanks guys for clearing things up. Lots of info here. I'm thinking, just from what I've read, that a Marlin 60 may be the route to go. I'll go the gun shop and see if I like the feel.

Thanks again.
 
Nix the Marlin 60. After looking at the specs, I'm thinking one of the following:

Remington 597 SS
Marlin 795 SS
T/C R-55 All Weather

If any of you have one of these will you comment? How much should a scope set me back?

Thanks again,

java
 
What kind of scope? What sort of shooting are you planning to do here? From the 60-100 yard question, I'm guessing some bench but mostly field shooting?
.22's have been popular with everyone everywhere for a very long time. There are millions of great rifles out there, and new isn't always better. The Marlin 60 or the 10/22 are great rifles, and quite accurate, and the Marlin's grooved for a scope, and both are quite accurate for autoloaders, but you'll never see one in even Jr. Olympic competiton. If you don't need to shoot perfect 200's in NRA smallbore, you don't need to worry about that... what exactly are your needs?
 
The 10/22 is a great little rifle. Factory triggers are super stiff, so a trigger job or alot of practice is in order. I have never cared for the Marlin Model 60s personally. Just don't like the way they feel. The Henry lever actions are grear little guns, and alot of fun to shoot. The Henrys cost a good bit less than the Marlin 39s and are just as reliable and nearly as accurate. Sounds like you want a semi auto though, so if I was you I would go with either the Ruger 10/22 or the Remington 597.
 
I don't think that I am a 10/22 kind of person, at least yet. I just want it to basically be good out of the box.

Mainly, I want to have fun with it shooting targets. I also plan to learn the skill of hunting at some point for when/if TSHTF. So I can also see me using this for hunting small game like rabbit. I like the look of the synthetic stock and stainles steel. I also want a regular detachable magazine instead of being tube fed for ease of reloading and accuracy. Those criteria helped me narrow my selection down to these:

Remington 597 SS
Marlin 795 SS
T/C R-55 All Weather

So, I'm really asking for anyone with experience with one or more of these rifles to give me their thoughts one them. (Okay, if you have the wood stock and/or blued version of one of them, I'll still want your comments :D )

Thanks,

java
 
.22 WMR?
.22 Stinger????

No-one's mentioned these yet?

PS: I have a 10/22 here in the UK and it's a great little gun. Cheap adn accurate, and most importantly FUN to shoot.:cool:
 
I don't think that I am a 10/22 kind of person, at least yet. I just want it to basically be good out of the box.

Not to be pushy, but there isn't a better autoloader out of the box for anywhere close to the same money IMO. There are a lot of 10/22 owners out there. So many infact, that if 100 just decided to post negative complaints about them, there would still be about 10,000 happy owners for every single one of those 100 complaints.

For autoloaders you don't have much selection. Even if something is $2000, someone will find something on it to complain about.
 
I have no problems with my Ruger 10/22 carbine. It fires reliably, and is actually very accurate. I also have the 50 round drum and the 30 Rd. mag for it also....fun gun.:)
 
I think it is humorous that some people on this board get off by convincing someone that the gun they don't want is the one they want. And that makes me chuckle.

Anthony

I just don't think that I want a 10/22--now. From what I'm told, I'll own other .22s in the future. So maybe then. I don't have the time, money, or desire to start upgrading a rifle. Nor do I want to explain all of the upgrades that I'd buy to my wife. I just want a good rifle, out of the box. So....

Those criteria helped me narrow my selection down to these:


Quote:
Remington 597 SS
Marlin 795 SS
T/C R-55 All Weather

So, I'm really asking for anyone with experience with one or more of these rifles to give me their thoughts one them. (Okay, if you have the wood stock and/or blued version of one of them, I'll still want your comments :D )
 
Just throw rocks at a target. Its a lot cheaper and there are no parts to upgrade.

I don't have the time, money, or desire to start upgrading a rifle.
I don't know why you think you must upgrade a 10/22, but then I don't know why you quoted something that isn't even in this thread. If you don't want it thats fine, but, "I don't think that I am a 10/22 kind of person, at least yet. I just want it to basically be good out of the box," sounds more like you read something bad and took it as gospel.

All the other rifles you suggested are fine, however T/C probably has the best reputation interms of overall quality, but given its twice the price of the others, it better.
 
I'm with Chipp 100%. I have a Marlin Mod. 60 tube fed .22 auto I got for my 16th birthday (51 now) and that little thing shoots great and shoots everytime. I've never found anything it wouldn't eat, and over the years I just kept putting better and better scopes on it because it shot so well. Came with a cheap little 4X, bought a 3X6 Weaver, then a Tasco, and it now has a 6X old but bright, Unertl. The gun has had I know over 25,000 rnds through it, and is waiting for my 12 Y.O. when the time comes. I always liked the looks of the 10/22's, but a buddy got one when we were 20, and that little Marlin has always shot rings around it. Also, his 10/22 won't eat Federals, doesn't like Win. Wildcats very well, and absolutely gagged on CCI Stingers. Still ticks him off that he paid 2X what my Marlin cost from Whites Auto Store in 71'.

My 60'

Marlin.jpg
 
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And before you ask, yes the scope is on right, it's an old Unertl. I got it from a buddy a few years ago when he barowed a 3x9 Tasco from me, and then traded the rifle off with my scope on it. I don't know where he came up with this one, but the glass is amazing:what:
 
Also, his 10/22 won't eat Federals, doesn't like Win. Wildcats very well, and absolutely gagged on CCI Stingers.
I'd have that gun checked into a rehab clinic. It's definitely showing signs of bulemia and anorexia. :uhoh:

I haven't had time yet to read all the posts yet (there's at least a couple of longer nice ones up there that I'm looking forward to reading ... vacation coming in mere days! :what: ), but I'll throw out a couple of opinions anyway during a break from work.

I currently own a CZ452 Style. It's a beautiful gun, and an absolute tack driver. No feeding problems. It's the second .22 I've ever owned. The other was a Rem Nylon 66 from teenage/early twenties. (Wish I'd kept it, of course.)

I bought the CZ boltie after reading a lot of reviews, and hearing (correctly) that the bolts are substantially more accurate.

I'm planning to use a .22 mostly for small game hunting rather than paper punching (though will of course do my fair share of the latter to get ready to be more proficient at the former). So, I thought, accuracy will be good with the CZ.

And it is. I have no problem saying, if one were to consider purchasing a bolt action, a CZ 452 should definitely be on the list under consideration. I've never seen a bad review of one.

But now, I'm finding the bolt action to be less natural for me, slow and somewhat cumbersome. YMMV.

It's probably because this is the first bolt I've ever owned. I grew up with pumps (still got one; see user name), levers (had a 336 years ago, had to sell it; getting another one soon), and autos (don't have any now, no plans to change that).

For all those reasons, I'm considering selling/trading this 452 for a Marlin 39A. I don't like the long barrel on the 39A, but a gunsmith could be take care of that. (In fact, I prefer short barrels on all my long guns, given the type of ecosystems I'll use them in (mostly dense temperate rainforest), I want an 18 or 20" barrel; I would proabably also have the 452 cut down an inch or two if I keep it).

But the 39A has been in production for a LONG time. I've read nothing but good about them. While I don't dispute that they're unlikely to be as accurate as a bolt, I'm betting they may be significantly more so than autos of any flavor, (untested hypothesis), but am quite certain they won't be as bulemic as some autos. :uhoh:

And if both my .22 and my .30-30 are both levers, there's better cross platform compatability.

And you java code people recognize the importance of cross platform compatability better than most. ;)

Interesting thread. I'll read it more completely soon. Thanks for the info, all.

Nem
 
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Java, while being the dude, that loves a good marlin, and as much as I would like to give a nod to the 795, out of just those three, I would get the t/c. the t.c is a lifetime gun, one you will be proud to have or show off or pass down 50 years from now, should the Lord tarry. the are sick accurate, this dude I know, has one of those ,and a tricked out Savage, and some other stuff he handloads for, and I allways shoot against him at the range, with my mod 60 and some other stuff. And even though he is an older dude, that wears glasses, when he pulls the t/c out, I know i'm gonna have to be damn near perfect to beat him. but the t/c is also a beauty of a gun, and you know what? you can allways pick up a used 795 later, for 100 bucks used , somewhere. forget the remmy, not that I wouldn't want one, and will still proly get one, but you should be more comfortable with semiautos, and should be handy with tools, and not afraid to work on guns, before getting a remmy 597. they usually need a little tweaking, as you can see if you go over to rimfirecentral. but they are nicely accurate as well, and I like the idea of the synthetic stock to beat up or get wet, without worrying about it. Plus the remmy is one of the few new 22's , that come with a fully adjustable rear site.so that is good, and the magazine, which can be the biggest problem, is
quite innovative.
So , once again, out of the three left you are going to choose from, as much a marlin fan as I am, I would get the t/c. you will love it, you won't regret it for a moment, and you won't look back.
 
I've had a Marlin 60 and a Rem 597. I still own the 597 if that tells you anything. I really liked the Marlin, but I gave it to my nephew for a Christmas present a couple years ago. Out of the box, I like the 597 better. It seems more accurate than the 60, and seems like I get less FTF with the 597. One con about the 597 that I don't really care for is the mag. I think it has a pretty weak spring (or something) in it. I could use an extra mag for it too.
 
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Hi, I have both a Marlin model 60 and a 1022. I like the marlin more but I shoot competitions with it and it is P.I.A. to unload when the command comes to unload and show clear. So I bought a 1022 with a magazine to make that easy. I like the Marlin it is well balanced and accurate and looks good. I couldn't find one with a magazine or I would have bought that.

The remingtons seems to have a lot of complaints here. They seemed to come up a lot on the thread that listed crappy guns.

pete
 
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