Too senile for a gun

Individuals differ

IE: Paul Newman at 82+ still drives a mean race car. He still skis (so do I). Some of us old fellers can, some can't.
It all DEPENDS !!!!

Unfortunately its one of those cases where he has the constitutional right to bear arms but to let the old fellow exercise his right (in public) it may be too dangerous and the only thing that can be done is ban him from the range permanently , kind of reminded me what my dad had to do to his mother a few years ago when she got too blind to drive . Him and my uncles ended up removing her car's tires and putting it up on blocks . Apparently she had too many sets of keys hidden for them to find and she nearly knocked the garage down trying to back out of it one day . Its truely a sad day when that happens

I had the exact same thing happening to me at the public outdoor range 3-4 months ago.

One elderly gentleman in his late 70s/early 80s was a real nice guy, with his front teeth missing and obviously not wearing any denture was showing me his M44 Mossin Nagant rifle and babbling something about his own-made sight for the rifle was so accurate that he can take down 5 Germans with five of his hand-loads... I wasn't sure if he was referring to the Germans in WWII or he was referring to some European-speaking guys two lanes over at the range...

And he was really excited about his rifle and was itching to try his new hand-loads... and he either ignored, or simply did not hear the European dudes calling "cold".... And as one of the guys was walking down range to put up new targets, that old guy fired... Of course, he wasn't aiming at the dude, but apparently it really pissed off a lot of people at the range.

Safety is safety. Rules are rules. I'd hope that if I ever get too old to shoot safely or drive a car safely that someone would politely intervene. It could be something "fixable" by a reiteration of rules, maybe the guy needs a hearing aid, maybe his medications are affecting him, maybe he needs the buddy system when he's shooting. Worse case, he needs to quit shooting if he cannot do it safely. Tough job for someone to make that evaluation or to do the intervention. I think safety compels it.

BTW, I try to make it a point to make sure guns are down, actions open,and that everyone has cleared the bench or shooting line before I go down range...and then I'm always looking over my shoulder while checking targets.

Seems like lots of folks are making assumptions this incident happened because of the man's age. There is an unstated but implied assumption that if this man was thirty years younger, he would have been handling guns more safely. Perhaps. But, perhaps neither assumption may be correct.

Perhaps, he's been a careless idiot for a long time.

Perhaps he has been shooting out in the back 40 all his life, it was his first trip to the range, and he didn't know the rules.

Perhaps your understanding of what cold or dead means is not his. I spent three hours today at a well regulated range today and never heard the words cold or dead mentioned once by the rangemaster.

Perhaps he's had a hearing impairment from too much time in a gun turrent protecting our right to live free.

When I was 18, I used to hunt with a 17 year old named Fred. I found myself staring down Fred's barrel one too many times because Fred was an idiot who didn't handle guns safely. I made a decision not to hunt with him anymore. Fred's not 17 anymore, but I'll bet he is still an idiot.

It was just the opposite for me. One of our club members brought two young men (late teens, early twenties?) to the range. These kids are walking from firing station to firing station with loaded guns, fingers on the triggers.

I finally yelled at one of them, "Son, do not point that weapon at me!" He grinned sheepishly and said he was sorry.

Seriously, I wish I knew the member's name. I'd have his membership revoked!

I've had much more trouble with brats than older shooters.

PAR,

I took a gun newb friend to the range once, and he set my AK down, (had just emptied the mag, and removed it) but aimed sideways and directly at another man. He pointed to it and politely informed me of what my friend had done. I corrected it, and told me friend about that aspect of safety. Problem solved.

Regarding us 'brats': teach us when we make mistakes, don't throw us out. All that does is send people away ignorant and angry.

Regarding us 'brats': teach us when we make mistakes, don't throw us out. All that does is send people away ignorant and angry.

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Sorry, kid. Nothing personal. You're right, those kids needed instruction.

The one time I saw someone ignore range conditions it wasn't an 80 year old. Once at a range I attended in Ct. a man showed up at the table next to mine. I was shooting a black powder revolver, and the range was hot. So this guy shows up, puts his stuff down, and grabs a target stand, and attaches his targets. So far, OK. BUT, then, being a little too engrossed in what he was doing and not enough engrossed in the din of guns firing all around him, he starts down range with his target!
His table was no more than 2 feet from me! And there was another shooter on the other side...I yelled "MAN ON RANGE!" which is what one was supposed to do in that situation, and the range officer shut the place down.
Now, that guy got a good tongue lashing (you had to know that RO!!!) but he wasn't hurt -- thank God. He was luckier than a skinny turkey at Thanksgiving, though....:banghead:

Breaks my heart. Reminds me of when my mother gave me my father's Colt Pocket .32 auto. He was about 1 year into Alzheimer's disease. He had a few bouts with good old common sense and lucidity and asked me where it was, and I had to lie to him. That sucked, but she absolutely didn't want it in the house. Dad died on New Year's Eve, 1987, about 4 years into a disease I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies. The Colt is legally mine, now, but I haven't shot it since. Somehow it doesn't hold the excitement it had when I was a kid. All it holds is memories.

there's an access road at my range, where with permission you can drive back to the 300+ range targets, when the range is cold.

the last time i was there, the range was hot, and someone just starts driving back there without a care in the world. the road never crosses lanes of fire, but still.

I've seen all ages do stupid things on a range. Two young guys, walking around with a stockless M16 live. They got tossed. Older guy, dropped an unfired round past the line, reached out to grab it, and got yelled at by the RM. He ended up buying a membership that day, he was impressed by their concern. The stupidest thing I've seen was a guy who was so upset with his poor shooting that he actually threw his pistol into his bag and sent a round into the ceiling! He was still trying to talk his way out of that when I left, and passed a pair of cruisers in the parking lot coming in.

I've got a father-in-law that age that I could see it happening to and he's not senile . ..he just can't hear a damn thing. I think it'd be worthwhile to have someone talk to him (if you see him again). I'd hate to see someone lose their privileges because they've got a handicap. (of course my FIL won't wear a hearing aid . . . I never take him shooting but when I'm using power tools I have to be double careful )

Have a good one,
Dave

Range Officers?

At the ranges I belong to, the range officer announces cease fire, everyone puts down firearms with actions open, then he will walk down the line to ensure all weapons are open and safe.

Your range should adopt this policy so everyone is safe. Some people have a hard time hearing and there is no way to hear if everyone has yelled "Range is Dead".

There is one thing that concerns me about our range. It is an outdoor range, that has individual benches, with halfmoon cutouts for the shooter. You can fire rifle or pistol, your choice. What gets me is that say you want to stand and fire an AR15, The RO wants you to come from behind the bench, then stand between the benches, at the front edge and fire from there. This now puts the gents muzzle who is on sandbags next to you at 18" from your body and I am now 6" AHEAD of his muzzle. I don't like this and it is their rule. If you are sitting, then they want you behind the bench ( Where I think you should be regardles of sitting or standing). When I am sitting and the guy next to me stands and comes around to shoot his AR or Pistol standing, I clear and walk away. I won't fire with anybody that close and ahead of my muzzle.

There are certainly young people who do stupid things with guns. And there are oldsters who are fantastic. But decreased mental function is one of the risks of aging. If someone can not handle guns without being a danger to himself or others it's time to put them away. He has a right to keep and bear arms, but every right has limits. If he is incapable of being safe with them he should not have them, certainly not on your range.

I've been shooting for a long time and I'm real sensitive to range discipline.

Now I admit that I have not fired on an outdoor range in fifteen years (all the local ones have been shut down), so this business of "Range is Cold" is a new one on me.

I always had my ears tuned to hearing a "Cease Fire!" from the range officer, even through my hearing protection, but I must admit that I might not have reacted appropriately and immediately to something like "range is cold."

Joe7cri said,

At the ranges I belong to, the range officer announces cease fire, everyone puts down firearms with actions open, then he will walk down the line to ensure all weapons are open and safe.

Your range should adopt this policy so everyone is safe. Some people have a hard time hearing and there is no way to hear if everyone has yelled "Range is Dead".

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As far as his first paragraph is concerned, I thought that the "Cease Fire" command was standard and was like a Commandment from the Deity --to be instantly obeyed. And as he said, the range officer(s) would then go down the line and check the firearms. They would then and only then announce that the range was clear.

I am afraid that I myself, having learned this discipline for so many years, might not have been "tuned" to variations like "The range is dead" or "The range is cold." (And I always reviewed the posted range rules even though I had shot there before.)

And forgive me, but I thought that the range officer(s) going down the line and checking every fiream was for the exact reason that someone might not have heard the command and was fussing with his gear or something and was making ready to fire just at the moment when everyone was proceeding to their targets.

As an old coot myself, I am not 100% sure that this was the other old coot's fault, and I cannot understand why the range officers did not go down the line to check the firearms in the instance cited in the orginal posting!

To me, this was a breakdown of range discipline, not necessarily on the part of the aforementioned old coot, but of the range itself. I mean, why not introduce variations like,

"OK, y'all, everyone can prance on down to those paper thingies and restaple new ones!"

I wish people would stick to a standard command. I used to go to an outdoor range a while back and their command sequence was...

CEASE FIRE - ALL GUNS DOWN - MAN DOWNRANGE

In Cowboy action shooting when a man is going downrange it's standard to take off your hat and hold it up in the air along with the verbal commands. Good visual backup to the cease fire command.

As for the individual, I should think you'd report the incident to the range officer and then it's HIS (or her) responsibility.

On our indoor range we have a red line on the floor 3 feet behind the firing positions. We ALWAYS have two ROs on duty minimum when the range is open to the members or the public. RO issues command CEASE FIRE & SAFE ALL WEAPONS! Second RO goes down the line and taps any shooter on the shoulder who has not complied by locking actions open and or bagging firearms. Next command is RANGE IS SAFE! at which point EVERYONE must step behind the red line and stay there unless they go down the center aisle to paste or replace targets. Nobody is allowed near their firearms and folks entering the range during this time cannot unbag weapons or approach vacant shooting points they too have to stay behind the red line. When all are back from the targets the RO calls out IS THE RANGE CLEAR? at which time both ROs verify that there is nobody down range. Next command is EYES AND EARS, GOING HOT! RO verifies shooters and observers have their eyes and ears on and then calls out RANGE IS HOT COMMENCE FIRE!

All ages can be stupid. Just for info, I have seen the older person problem. The gentleman continued to point down range during a called lull and argued that he was a safe shooter and could still do that. After a couple of incidents and the RO talking to him, his middle aged son had to almost wrestle the gun away.

But young stupid and midaged stupids are there aplenty. I saw the RO declare the range safe with a dude still stapling up his target. Much hilarity ensued.

Unforturnately, the real truth is that many (if not most) of us posting here are going to reach a point in our lives where we will have to give up our guns or have family members take them from us. Sad, but true. Even sadder is the fact that we, as individuals, probably won't recognized or admit that we have reached that point. It will have to be family members who have the guts to make the move. I have thought about this quite a bit, and the thoughts fighten me.

We have all seen the effects of aging on the ability to drive a car. Why would firearms be any different. Because the onset of these problems occur at different ages in different people, I don't think there is any way to address these problems in a legal way.

Both my parents are in their mid 80s. My mother has serious mental decline and , in no way, could be considered capable of owning or using firearms. My father is mentally sharp ,but less than he used to be. It is only a matter of time. There are a couple of firearms in my parents house. My mother has no access, but my father does.