DUI Checkpoint caught on film

and one more

"While the latest Supreme Court ruling does not address prior public notification"

http://www.drug-rehabs.org/content.php?cid=1204&state=Louisiana


and from the guidelines some think have force of law

" Make general inquiries of the driver that require a response, and will observe the subject for signs of intoxication or impairment?

cass,

your being very rude.

i never stated it was legal advice, regulation, or case law. i pointed to what i found that may be relevant, after another member mentioned the issue.

it is clear that all you wish to do is argue, offend, and complicate.

sorry

didn't mean to offend you just pointed out the difference btween guidelines and law and in two diffferent ways the dangers of net legal advice

Theres a big difference in RIGHT and LEGAL.


BTW, CDs sig.

Definition of: oderint dum metuant: Let them hate so long as they fear. (A favorite saying of Caligula.)

Das Papiers Bitte

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Jeep, der Ausweis is the noun you are looking for. For future reference,

"Wo ist dein Ausweis?" would be good... or "Haben Sie ein Ausweis?" would also be ok. I could think of some insulting ways to say it too.

The backpedaling on this thread is pretty impressive. The kid seems, in my opinion, to be trying to stand up for what he believes are his rights. I can't fault him but his technique leaves a little to be desired. He'll get better over time I think.

First: Didn't bother watching the video, seen enough of them already, so I am only addressing this specific point:

@McCall911:

The officer IMO had no business asking him about his personal life--where he was going, what he was doing, where had he been.

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You are not correct, sir. The officer can ask whatever questions he desires to aid in the gathering of information to see if PC or RS exists. However it IS the right of the subject to answer or not as he sees fit. It is within the power of the officer to detain a subject to ascertain if PC or RS exists but there has never been a clear cut determination of what a "typical" time for detention should be lacking RS or PC. This is the same basic tactic used by all LEO's in street level interdiction. Find a small violation of the vehicle code and use that as a reason to detain a subject. Use whatever means possible to turn it into something bigger. Since many low lifes drive badly in cars that are one step out of the junkyard and often leave "paraphernalia" in "plain sight" this is easily done. When "paraphernailia" can be defined as straws, Baggies, etc. it makes it easy to find "RS".
In the example you give, by asking questions that are relatively easy to answer the leo is not looking for the actual answer but the way the answer is given, evasiveness, hesitation, conflicting directions, etc are all clues to be used to find RS.

You are not correct, sir. The officer can ask whatever questions he desires to aid in the gathering of information to see if PC or RS exists.

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So you would have no problem being treated in the same way that young man was?

the bottom line for both sides of this is pretty simple, actually. On one side, we have those that are freedom absolutists, those who believe that, lack of any credible evidence notwithstanding, police have no right or authority to detain or question anyone at a 'checkpoint' (if these are even truly legal) so long as there is no evident cause to do so. On the other side, we have those that seem to believe that there is the law, then there is the rest of everything else and despite what everything else might be, right or wrong, it can never be allowed to rise above the written law. Those that enforce this written law should always be obeyed and that any resulting disturbance or chaos as a result of ignoring this 'mandate' to adhere to a lawful authorities orders are the direct fault of the non-authority and said person should summarily be detained, arrested, and/or incarcerated for willfully disobeying said lawful authorities orders.

freedom or slavery, take your pick.

It's amazing if you watch the show "Cops", how many people are lead to believe they will be in more "trouble" if they don't cooperate by submitting to search. Cops are not your friends, they will probably not go lightly on you, they have a job to do. On the flip side, there are plenty of police that take it personal when citizens no there rights and refuse to talk or implicate themselves. They feel as though it is your obligation to comply and bend to there will... These law officers need to get training or go!

In my area I pretty much know when and where checkpoints will be set up, I can usually avoid them. When I see barricades set up blocking traffic into one lane with flashing police car lights all over the road I turn off and take side streets around them. As long as it can be done without breaking traffic laws it is not illegal to do so. Oh yes, I am personally completly clean and sober and my truck and motorcycle are allways up to code.
Now, if somehow I screw up and don't notice in time to avoid the stop, then I will comply with license, registration and proof of insurance. Where I am going, where have I been or other "small talk" types of questions will be answered by a polite refusal. Also any "request" to look inside my vehicle will not be granted, I certaintly will not resist, but no permission will be given. I consider the "if you have nothing to hide (and I don't) you shouldn't mind my looking" really means "I don't have any reason to arrest you but I would like to find one." Jim.

I Am Not a Hypocrite

No, nobody accused me of being one, either. In spite of the fact that I was a police officer for 12 years, I detest DUI checkpoints, and I detest detaining people for whom there is no reasonable suspicion that a crime is being committed.

I find it very stressful to encounter a DUI checkpoint. It makes me feel like I am in a Third World Country, and I cooperate no further than the law forces me to do (i.e., I hand my license out the window and refuse to speak to the officer at all).

As I am usually open carrying, and the checkpoints are usually in the dark, this raises the stress level even further.

I HATE such checkpoints. They should be outlawed.

Oh, and I absolutely refused to carry out such checkpoints when I was an officer. Refused.

As for whether the 19 year old was respectful: If an officer wants respect, it must be earned. I cannot give these officers any more respect than I could give to police officers that participated in seizing firearms, even if it was "legal."

What would the Founding Fathers have thought of such checkpoints? Really? I am shocked there are so many here, on this forum of all places, who support them and the armed agents of government who enforce them on admitted innocents.

James Madison would not have recognized you as a fellow countryman.

In my area I pretty much know when and where checkpoints will be set up, I can usually avoid them. When I see barricades set up blocking traffic into one lane with flashing police car lights all over the road I turn off and take side streets around them. As long as it can be done without breaking traffic laws it is not illegal to do so.

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If they see you avoiding their checkpoint, you're guaranteed to be pulled over. In California, it is literally impossible to operate a motor vehicle without violating some obscure section of the Vehicle Code. It doesn't take more than a minute or two for an officer to pull you over for the infraction you just committed after having turned away from the checkpoint, and now you're in a bigger mess than you'd been if you had just gone through and showed your papers like a good citizen.

Besides, they tend to set up so that, by the time you see them, there is nowhere to "turn off"... you either go through, or you do a U-turn and get a couple of cars on your ass.

Checkpoints suck. The price we pay for getting a few tipsy (and even a couple of seriously inebriated) drivers off the road is far too high. A whole generation has been conditioned that this is all right, that the police may stop them and ask for their papers at any time, and that this is perfectly normal. The "DUI" checkpoints used to just slow you down and funnel all cars past a few cops who would just look and see if they saw any sign of intooxication. Now, you stop and are forced to identify yourself and interact with them. What next? Everyone blow through a Breathalyzer? A "quick, non-intrusive" search of your car, just to make sure that "everything's OK"? "Contraband searches"? Run the ID of everyone in each car against lists of arrest warrants, or parolees, or "suspected terrorists"?

What happened to America?

Now, we pause to bring you cassandrasdaddy to tell me what a lunatic I am, that the police are our friends, that I'm paranoid and ought to be investigated for my subversive talk.

I have been fortunate enough to not yet be involved with a DUI checkpoint. However, there was a time about 15 years ago when I was travelling extensively throughout the state of NM on a monthly basis, and would invariably have to pass through a Border Patrol checkpoint. The conversation would normally go like this:

Border Patrol Agent: "Citizenship?"
Me: "United States"
Border Patrol Agent: "Have a nice day."

However, on one trip, this is what transpired:

Border Patrol Agent: "Citizenship?"
Me: "United States"
Border Patrol Agent: "Sir, are you travelling for business or pleasure?"
Me: "Officer, I don't want to sound obnoxious, but I don't really think an answer to that question is needed in order for you to perform your duties."
Border Patrol Agent: "You know, you are right. Have a nice day."

Note that in the interval between his question and my answer that I had enough time for the mental picture of my car being pulled over to the side and then being disassembled in a futile search for narcotics or illegal aliens went through my mind. I was fully prepared for that to happen. The agent was stepping over the line, and had no legal right to inquire as to the nature of my trip, and sometimes you need to stand up for your rights. That wouldn't have stopped me from being detained, but it worked out OK that time.

Note that I have no problem with the BP or INS trying to protect our borders from drugs or illegals, but they don't have the right to overstep their authority, and questions about my personal life are my business, not theirs. Last I checked, US citizens can travel throughout our land without needing government permission or encountering government intrusion.

I still don't understand how checkpoints are legal at all- you know, the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. Or maybe I have that backwards...

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I'm with you on that. Seems to be illegal search and seizure. What's the difference in going door to door seeing if someone is doing something illegal? I hate drunk drivers as much as anyone, perhaps more since I've lost a number of friends to them over the years. But I fail to see how random searches is constitutional, even when done for the greater good.

The LEOs did what they did. They attempted to intimidate, under color of law, an American Citizen, who was not suspected of committing any crime.

THEY FAILED.

They've been exposed. That's worth it to me.

And that you support the activities of these LEOs sickens me.

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Yes, I agree. I hope the young man goes forward with his complaints. The PO's were wrong.

i look

like a latino to some
ins did a raid on a jobsite where i worked with abouy40 or so guys by the time they came up the ladders on one side i was one of 2 guys left working 5 compressors a doz or more nailguns hose everywhere. the ins guy came up and asked me for my green card, i used some choice vocabulary he was taken aback and seemed to take my pronunciation of a common compound curseword as proof of residency.
as far a search and seizure go anyone familiar with the recent raids at the meat packing plants? total lock down everyone has to prove legal status takes hours with no one allowed to leave both natives and immigrants alike

there`s a big difference between some slob driving drunk and me owning guns. i`ve been a paramedic for 15 years and can`t count how many dead and dying people- mothers,fathers,and children i`ve pulled out of mangled vehicles because some drunk ran them over. so don`t give me the " they have rights crap" 5 minutes out of your day at a traffic check to catch drunks is not asking a whole lot. be respectful and if your not breaking the law i`m sure you will be on your way in no time. and yes.. if giving up some of my rights would bring back some of the little children i`ve had to put in a body bag, i would do it.. that doesn`t mean i think the police should take all my guns or play with my wifes underwear as acouple of you suggested.. that means i`m willing to be stopped at a road check for 5 minutes to answes questions without being a little smart-ass like that kid was.

Yup, JD0608, it's for the children.

Biker

if giving up some of my rights would bring back some of the little children i`ve had to put in a body bag, i would do it..

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Fine. Bargon away YOUR rights if you wish. Stay the freak away from those of others.

Are there any REAL numbers that compare the count of DUIs caught in these checkpoints vs. active patrols and police observation outside bars/nightclubs?

as far a search and seizure go anyone familiar with the recent raids at the meat packing plants? total lock down everyone has to prove legal status takes hours with no one allowed to leave both natives and immigrants alike

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Didn't they have a search warrant or court order for that raid? If so, that is an entirely different issue I think. Probable cause or evidence was already presented to a judge to get a search order legally. It wasn't just some INS agents driving by and deciding to search.

if giving up some of my rights would bring back some of the little children i`ve had to put in a body bag, i would do it.

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Hey, if we had only known that a long time ago, there are a bunch of US soldiers that would have gone on to live fruitful lives. Instead, they died to preserve rights that we can now just decide we don't need.

Are there any REAL numbers that compare the count of DUIs caught in these checkpoints vs. active patrols and police observation outside bars/nightclubs?

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I would certainly like to see that. Also, of the DUI's caught, what was the alcohol content of the driver? I think a check point is much more likely to catch drivers that are driving safely, but happen to be at or over the legal limit.

I have been fortunate enough to not yet be involved with a DUI checkpoint. However, there was a time about 15 years ago when I was travelling extensively throughout the state of NM on a monthly basis, and would invariably have to pass through a Border Patrol checkpoint. The conversation would normally go like this:

Border Patrol Agent: "Citizenship?"
Me: "United States"
Border Patrol Agent: "Have a nice day."

However, on one trip, this is what transpired:

Border Patrol Agent: "Citizenship?"
Me: "United States"
Border Patrol Agent: "Sir, are you travelling for business or pleasure?"
Me: "Officer, I don't want to sound obnoxious, but I don't really think an answer to that question is needed in order for you to perform your duties."
Border Patrol Agent: "You know, you are right. Have a nice day."

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Last time I drove across the border (maybe 2 years ago):

Border Patrol Agent: (looks at my girlfriend holding her dog, hand on butt of sidearm) "If that dog bites me, I'm going to shoot it."

It was all I could do to not kick his teeth down his throat. I wanted to tell him, "If you don't want to get bitten, get the f*&% out of our van!" But, if I had, I'd still be in prison today.

if its for the kids, what are kids doing on the streets at 2am?

yes biker it is. i`m sorry you think it`s funny. hopefully no drunk will ever hurt anyone you care for. you people act like i said we should all move to iran or something. it`s just a traffic check.stop and go if your not drunk.